Webley Patriot .25

[Barry Vanderhav]

Giday,I am relatively new to this sport.....some of you may know that here in NZ we have a rabbit problem...if one obtains a firearm you need a license....but not for air rifles....I enquired...then went and bought a patriot..my hunting friends are impressed.....

how come i can not find a posting relating to this air rifle in the UK ???

Thanks in advance

[Marky610]

Giday,I am relatively new to this sport.....some of you may know that here in NZ we have a rabbit problem...if one obtains a firearm you need a license....but not for air rifles....I enquired...then went and bought a patriot..my hunting friends are impressed.....

how come i can not find a posting relating to this air rifle in the UK ???

Thanks in advance

If you do a search on here you will find one mentioned in a thread on 'Whats the worse gun you ever owned?' The reply was from me cos I had one and its the worse gun I've ever owned.

You might as well use a shotty cos it kicks like one, god knows what its going to do to a scope, never fired enough pellets through mine to zero it up. Took it to my firearms office for distruction I didnt want that peice of c*** left in circulation.

You could have bought any airrifle that would be better, you dont need power to kill a rabbit you need accracy, I have a BSA Lightning XL .177 and its only 12ft/lb but 2000% better.

[Barry Vanderhav]

Thanks for a speedy responce (its nearly mid night I should be in bed).Yes Ive heard about the webley "chewing through scopes" but I bought a fairly expensive BSA one ...no problems...the recoil is tolerable.What i like is that its quite accurate at 60-70 meters (3-4 inches of drop) and the impact appears quite impressive.

[Farmerpalmer]

Probably because most people that shoot >12ft/lb air-rifles tend t shoot PCP - because of their lack of recoil, and a faster 2nd shot.

Personally I only shoot air-rifles of <12ft/lb.

Although a do have an FAC (FireArms Certificate)- I don't have an FAC rated air rifles.

I do own 2 Webley Xocets and love 'em - I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Patriot.

[electric sheep]

It is not a good design and aimed at the US market where fps rules. The R1/HW80 would have been a much better choice or even a 48/52 for 20 FPE.

[Rapidnick]

Surely, the best time to ask people's opinions is BEFORE you buy a rifle?
Not wanting to sound a clever dick but why on earth didn't you buy a Theoben Eliminator-or at least consider one? Arguably the best self contained high powered air rifle on the market. Even the Americans buy it- badged as a Beeman Crow Magnum. I have yet to read anything good about the Patriot except that it still offers open sights-just as well as scopes are regularly mullered. A bit like rugby teams that play the All Blacks!!!
Calibre choice is a regular topic on here but for rabbits, .22 is more than adequate and flies flatter than .25. The bigger calibre has its uses (mainly squirrels) but ammunition is inconsistent and expensive and the trajectory is harder to estimate than with .22. It certainly hits hard- no doubt about that!
Anyway, you have what you have-good luck with it.:)

[verminhunter]

I think they do a gas-ram system for the patriot,plus some damper mounts will help for sure, it is what it is, cant change the way the rifle is made but you can improve its internal,but for power it surely is,and cheap to buy.

[Rapidnick]

I think they do a gas-ram system for the patriot,plus some damper mounts will help for sure, it is what it is, cant change the way the rifle is made but you can improve its internal,but for power it surely is,and cheap to buy.

You are right VH but why waste any more money on it?:)

[JPShelton]

Surely, the best time to ask people's opinions is BEFORE you buy a rifle?
Not wanting to sound a clever dick but why on earth didn't you buy a Theoben Eliminator-or at least consider one? Arguably the best self contained high powered air rifle on the market. Even the Americans buy it- badged as a Beeman Crow Magnum. I have yet to read anything good about the Patriot except that it still offers open sights-just as well as scopes are regularly mullered. A bit like rugby teams that play the All Blacks!!!
Calibre choice is a regular topic on here but for rabbits, .22 is more than adequate and flies flatter than .25. The bigger calibre has its uses (mainly squirrels) but ammunition is inconsistent and expensive and the trajectory is harder to estimate than with .22. It certainly hits hard- no doubt about that!
Anyway, you have what you have-good luck with it.:)

Those New Zealand rabbits must be tough buggers!

I've got two Beeman R-9s -one in .177 and another in .20. The .177 is running at 15 fpe. With Crosman Copperhead pellets, it shoots flat enough at that power level to allow me to make reliable hits out to 50 yards and hits with over 8 fpe of thump at that range. So far, that amount of energy has been all that has been required to take the cottontail rabbits and jackrabbits that I shoot. In the case of the latter, I took the biggest one of my life this year. It weighted 12 pounds -about three times the size of the typical cottontail.

For me, it's a trade-off. I'd like more power for a flatter trajectory, but I really don't want to carry a scoped rifle weighing in at over 10 pounds up and down the steep desert terrain that I hunt rabbits, quail, and chukar upon here in California. There is a lot of walking involved in our rabbit hunting, as our bunnies tend to be less social than the European variety is and thus they are more thinly distributed with one bunny to every ten acres being about the average population density here.

The only reason I bought the .20 R-9 was because the regulations state that you have to use .20 caliber or larger to hunt turkey in California if using an air rifle, so my current .177 wouldn't be legal for that.

I might like more FPE in my .20, mostly to flatten the trajectory. I've been looking into the Theoben range.

Beeman no longer market the Crow Magnum, but we've got "Theoben USA" in the form of Dave Slade, who is the importer over here, and they're easy to get over the Internet. There is a Theoben stockist 50 miles from my home, too, so I've got the advantage of picking from a few on the basis of pretty wood. I can't decide between the Eliminator or the Crusader, but will probably go .22 when I make up my mind.

The Patriot doesn't trip my trigger, either, but I wish the original poster every success with his, and look forward to reading more with respect to how he's getting on with it in the future.

Blessings and Tight Groups,
-JP

[Mike95]

The biggest scourge in NZ seemed to be the Ozzy possum when I visited, perhaps the Patriot was bought with an eye to the possum hunt! I have found very little interest in air weapons both in NZ and Australia and very little choice, mainly because it seems fairly easy to get a rimfire license. I certainly wouldn't fancy a 25ft/lb springer but each to his own.

Mike95

[Rapidnick]

Beeman no longer market the Crow Magnum, but we've got "Theoben USA" in the form of Dave Slade, who is the importer over here, and they're easy to get over the Internet. There is a Theoben stockist 50 miles from my home, too, so I've got the advantage of picking from a few on the basis of pretty wood. I can't decide between the Eliminator or the Crusader, but will probably go .22 when I make up my mind.

The Patriot doesn't trip my trigger, either, but I wish the original poster every success with his, and look forward to reading more with respect to how he's getting on with it in the future.

Blessings and Tight Groups,
-JP

Interesting post. I reckon that for self contained .22 the Eliminator is the best you can get. The Crusader is fine and although it looks like an Eliminator and shares a lot of parts, it isn't the same internally and cannot develop the same level of power. No choice really!

[cookoff013]

its up to personal choice what gun you get. the theobens are expensive but good. the partiot is a ok gun when you use the right ammo. (heavy ammo.) for a .177 i`d like 6 ftlbs more power but i aint going to get it. (licences and all)
the patriot should be suitable for rabbits (at 18ftlb +) in .25 but am unsure about laws in nz.
if i wanted a power house gun i`d get a .22 rapid rated to 30ftlbs. it should have some range on it.
i have never shot a .25. (but with the right amount of energy, should be a cracker of a gun, the ammo is a bitch to get hold of).
i have heard the eliminator is a great gun.
i`d try heavy weight pellets in your patriot (the light ones are crap for magnum class guns.) should be like using a howitzer on them. we use lighter pellets because of the lower energy levels we use.
the common problem i`ve heard are the light pellets fold up after leaving the barrel.(dunno if its true.) give it a try.

what energy level does your patriot kick out???
i`m getting a weihrauch HW80, soon in .22. -not to be under estimated (one of the best guns ever created.) it can be run over (with car) a few times and still work brilliantly. if you ever get to use the hw guns be warned they are addictive and collectable. (i`m on my 4th)

[Rapidnick]

its up to personal choice what gun you get. the theobens are expensive but good. the partiot is a ok gun when you use the right ammo. (heavy ammo.) for a .177 i`d like 6 ftlbs more power but i aint going to get it. (licences and all)
the patriot should be suitable for rabbits (at 18ftlb +) in .25 but am unsure about laws in nz.
if i wanted a power house gun i`d get a .22 rapid rated to 30ftlbs. it should have some range on it.
i have never shot a .25. (but with the right amount of energy, should be a cracker of a gun, the ammo is a bitch to get hold of).
i have heard the eliminator is a great gun.
i`d try heavy weight pellets in your patriot (the light ones are crap for magnum class guns.) should be like using a howitzer on them. we use lighter pellets because of the lower energy levels we use.
the common problem i`ve heard are the light pellets fold up after leaving the barrel.(dunno if its true.) give it a try.

what energy level does your patriot kick out???
i`m getting a weihrauch HW80, soon in .22. -not to be under estimated (one of the best guns ever created.) it can be run over (with car) a few times and still work brilliantly. if you ever get to use the hw guns be warned they are addictive and collectable. (i`m on my 4th)

It is a waste of time and money using light pellets in any FAC springer/rammer. Whilst I agree that the Rapid at 30 ft lb is a great choice it is a lot more expensive than either a Patriot or an Eliminator and requires charging gear which is not cheap either.
The HW80 is a fantastic rifle as you say. However it cannot develop as much power as the Eliminator without it becoming very harsh to shoot.
You 'pays your money and takes your choice' except that I have yet to meet any shooter who prefers a Patriot over an Eliminator!! It is just an inferior gun-end of story-UNLESS the ability to use open sights is important to you.

[cookoff013]

It is a waste of time and money using light pellets in any FAC springer/rammer. Whilst I agree that the Rapid at 30 ft lb is a great choice it is a lot more expensive than either a Patriot or an Eliminator and requires charging gear which is not cheap either.
The HW80 is a fantastic rifle as you say. However it cannot develop as much power as the Eliminator without it becoming very harsh to shoot.
You 'pays your money and takes your choice' except that I have yet to meet any shooter who prefers a Patriot over an Eliminator!! It is just an inferior gun-end of story-UNLESS the ability to use open sights is important to you.

i havent shot any of the guns mentioned. so wont comment. however i`m willing to bet the patriot was cheaper......lol. buts yous gets whats yous pays fors. he wanted a patriot.
theo- did a dual magnum 36ftlb underleaver it didnt sell many as its fac only. i always wanted one. and my mfr could be tweaked to shoot better power output. but its the fun about airguns, power/range/pellets/scope/ end will be different for every gun. i hope barry vanderhav has great sport out of his gun. please enjoy

[Russ6357]

Its a shame about the Dual Magnum.....

Now a recoilless 20ftlb Gas Ram would be a winner.....BEN....!

[Barry Vanderhav]

I must admit I am somewhat confused re the opinions expressed about the Patriot.I am new to the game , but my friends who are serious about "huntin and killin" think that this rifle is awesome.Here in NZ one does not need a license for an air rifle.I am using H+N pellets...the energy level is supposedly 30 lbs..at 30 meters (with a BSA scope) I get 1-2 " accuracy....at 60-70 meters...I get 3-4 " accuracy...with enough oommph to make serious dents in tin cans.At 30 meters I can get through 4-5 cans.
In my opinion this is a fantastic work of art.
Me thinks that you lot in GB are hamstrung by your laws.
I am new at this game.I bought the patriot thinking that if youre going to kill something then you might as well do it well and humanely.

[Rapidnick]

I must admit I am somewhat confused re the opinions expressed about the Patriot.I am new to the game , but my friends who are serious about "huntin and killin" think that this rifle is awesome.Here in NZ one does not need a license for an air rifle.I am using H+N pellets...the energy level is supposedly 30 lbs..at 30 meters (with a BSA scope) I get 1-2 " accuracy....at 60-70 meters...I get 3-4 " accuracy...with enough oommph to make serious dents in tin cans.At 30 meters I can get through 4-5 cans.
In my opinion this is a fantastic work of art.
Me thinks that you lot in GB are hamstrung by your laws.
I am new at this game.I bought the patriot thinking that if youre going to kill something then you might as well do it well and humanely.

Barry I am of course delighted that you like your Patriot. My point is that the Theoben Eliminator is a better rifle in every department and you don't seem to have considered it! Perhaps you haven't had the oppportunity. I have- and can assure you that there is no comparison!!! Admittedly the Patriot is normally cheaper but second hand Eliminators are cheap too.
Don't see your point about 'our laws' here in the UK. We are comparing 2 rifles both requiring a Fire Arm Certificate (FAC) so the law applies equally to both.

[cookoff013]

I must admit I am somewhat confused re the opinions expressed about the Patriot.I am new to the game , but my friends who are serious about "huntin and killin" think that this rifle is awesome.Here in NZ one does not need a license for an air rifle.I am using H+N pellets...the energy level is supposedly 30 lbs..at 30 meters (with a BSA scope) I get 1-2 " accuracy....at 60-70 meters...I get 3-4 " accuracy...with enough oommph to make serious dents in tin cans.At 30 meters I can get through 4-5 cans.
In my opinion this is a fantastic work of art.
Me thinks that you lot in GB are hamstrung by your laws.
I am new at this game.I bought the patriot thinking that if youre going to kill something then you might as well do it well and humanely.

well said.
i thing the market over here has had so many exellent guns, that the older ones dont get a look in these days. for hunting most will adopt a pcp. not a spring. (shot count and low recoil). i think your .25 sounds like an awsome machine 30 ftlbs at 30 meters ?? thats some power. (ours are 12 ftlbs at 0 meters.) the power is enough to kill a rabbit ! the accuracy isnt to bad, i feared youd be shooting 2ft groups. but this isnt the case. for a springer its decent.
happy hunting- (what do your friends use??)

[cookoff013]

here are some pellets to try..

diablo baracuda from h&n at 31grains & 30ftlbs should destroy most things.
its like firing 4 .177 pellets in one go !!!

all the best

[RFC]

I have other magnum springers, including two gas rammed RX-2's. The Patriot is a worthwhile challenge. Mine is a .22. Yes, it is a bit of a beast and you have to learn how to shoot it. I think the problem is that most people don't cycle enough pellets through it to properly break it in. Mine is now shooting CP's at about 920 fps and is easily capable of 1/2" or better at 30 yards. Also, it really bounces reactive targets. I have skipped the pcp step because I find that category is well filled by my rimfires.