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View Full Version : Mk3 RT FAC & compared to Mk3 Sports Pt1



richness
25-06-2006, 02:32 PM
I wrote a review on my then new Mk3 RT FAC .22 a while ago, which i have pasted below, and at the end are my observations versus my new Mk3 Sports FAC .22. There's also lots of pellet testing included:

MK3 RT review, and pellet tests:
Anyone buying an FAC Daystate Mk3 is going to have been round the block, so I’ll spare you the patronising tone of some reviews. This gun will be primarily compared to a Rapid Mk2 because I have direct experience of that fine rifle and it must represent the most serious competition to the Mk3 Daystate

First off, the Daystate RT is an attractive gun. Not in the functionally attractive way that the Rapid is but rather in a classical, thumbholed luxury way. The wood is exquisite, the lines flowing subtley from comb to foreend.
Looks aside, the functionality of the stock suits me well. The palmswell is about right for my hands and I like the various thumb-rest options that the stock provides.
One of the things that initially attracted me to this rifle was the high gloss silvery-looking bluing on the cylinder. I’m delighted to say that this did make it to production and the finish looks like a top-flight shotgun. Absolutely stunning :D

I particularly like the magazine system. The magazine indexes each position, so one can easily load it in pitch darkness. As good as the Rapid system is, I found it difficult to load at night due to each pellet slot not being indexed. There have been reports of the Mk3 mag not rotating properly and I can report that this is due to the pellets not being pushed in to the rubber o-ring properly. This means that the pellet skirt rubs on the rotating magazine and increases friction to the point where the last pellet won’t click into place. Obviously this is easily overcome and I find the mags effortless to use. I have stuck paper to the rotating sides with pellet numbers on them. This way, I can simply read off the number of pellets remaining. I am surprised that this wasn’t done originally.
As the action is not cocked by the bolt, the bolt action is just wonderfully light; it only needs to slide in and out of the magazine. It is silent and the angles are such that it can be activated with an instinctive flick of the wrist. This is one of my main preferences to the Mk2 Rapid..
The action always being ready takes some getting used to. If the trigger is pressed at any time with the safety off, the gun will fire. This is strange but further alerts one to the importance of strict trigger discipline.
I have an Harris bipod fitted to mine. I had my doubts but I tried one on and it really doesn’t do the gun’s balance any harm so I thought I’d try it out. I’m glad I did because the long range shots that the FAC power and the gun’s accuracy permit are made a sight easier by the bipod, no doubt about it. Whilst on the subject of accuracy, I remain staggered by the performance. With top pellets this gun is capable of one hole groups at 50 yards, fingernail groups at 70yards and sub-inch groups at 85 yards. Really quite remarkable. I didn’t do my normal pellet testing routine of clamping the gun in a vice because I didn’t seem to need to!
I have done long range pellet testing before but never with an FAC rifle. I must admit to being surprised at the difference that a pellet’s ballistic coefficient has on its flight at longer ranges.
These are the pellets that passed the initial veto at 35 yards:
AA Field/ Daystate FT 5.52
WebleyVenom Lazapells 5.52
Baracuda Match 5.52
Bisley Magnums 5.52
Eley Wasps .50
Exterminator 16gr
Exterminator 20.5gr
(Those that didn’t are:
RWS Superdomes, Super H Point
Accupell/Powapell)

All the above pellets fly through one hole every single time at 35 yards.
Only when the range is stretched to 60+ yards are the best shown.

I must say that the Daystate’s barrel didn’t seem too fussy; it spat all these pellets out with alarming accuracy. My favourites here are really based on trajectory.
On this score, the AA Field/ Daystate FT design is a remarkably clear winner.
For example, a 14.5gr Lazapell would be leaving the barrel at 830fps, 40fps faster than the heavier 16gr Daystate FT, at 790fps but at the 45 yards zero, the Lazapell is a good inch lower than the Daystate. The same applies to the 800fps 14.5gr Wasp.

Baracuda Match is definitely a better feeling pellet through this gun than the similar Bisley Magnum. The Baras are seriously accurate but obviously fly much loopier than the mediumweight fodder.
It is worth noting that the Exterminators are indeed very good pellets, but superpellets they are not. They are a touch faster than pellets of a similar weight but they do not hold more energy or fly flatter. Indeed, I prefer Baracuda Match because the performance is identical and when I shoot heavy pellets I am trying to reduce penetration and I think, although I haven’t tested it in any scientific way, that the Exterminators are more inclined to drill than to splat.
Whilst the Exterminators are very fine pellets, made to the highest of tolerances, they will not increase your gun to tank-like powers overnight or guarantee to bore straight through a three hundred yard gazelle.
The 16gr are good but are outclassed at longer ranges by the supersmooth-flying AAs.
They are very accurate, but as I say above, all of these pellets listed are grouping much the same; not one is worth paying twice as much for as any other.

At a push, the results are:
AA Field are clear winners. They fly flatter, hold more energy and are pellet on pellet all the way out to 70yards+. Remarkable. I found the Daystate FTs were of higher quality; less duds per tin. At the price, though, it may be worth buying AAs and sorting them yourself.
Next were Lazapells. Fast, flat and accurate. They aren’t as flat as the AAs but seriously accurate.
Baracuda Match. Stunning out to 45 yards. Really hard-hitting. As accurate as anything; I just want a faster, flatter pellet most of the time. Bismags are nearly as good but slower and not as smooth as the Baras through this gun.
Exterminators. The 16s are accurate and flat, on a par with the Lazapells. Not as good as the Field at longer ranges but a fine pellet nonetheless.
The 20.5s are accurate, on a par with Baracudas.
Eley Wasps. A surprise good show from the old design. Fast and accurate but give up to all the other past 50yards.

Those are the results of the pellet testing. The AA Fields are different class to the others and I will soon by buying several thousand of them from Daystate. With the same BC as the legendary Bismag design, but at a faster 16gr, they are special at 22ftlbs out of this Daystate. Off the bipod, you can shoot sub-inch at 80 yards all day long. I was surprised by this; eighty yards seems a very long way when you measure it out!
As suggested on the bbs, 50 shots is fine at SWP but more can safely be achieved at a fill pressure of 3600psi, or even up to 4000. This has been checked with Daystate. Half as many shots again can be achieved this way. That being the case, I am having the gun tweaked so that it does 25ftlbs with AAs. This will lower my SPC but I’m getting 70+ at the moment so I don’t mind if that drops a little.

I am aware that the locktime is fast on this gun. This, I’m sure, is partly due to the FAC power levels but it is clearly fast nonetheless. The trigger is lovely. Have no fears about having a microswitch! There are adjustments for light, medium and heavy weight let-off (second-stage) and first stage travel and weight. As much as I like a light trigger, mine came set too light and I weighted it a little more, and that was on the medium selection! I would imagine that the lightest of light would be a matter of ounces. Anyway, let-off is crisp and reliable.

I like the safety catch. You can just flip it round with your thumb and it is silent. There are little green and red blobs that show you whether you are safe or not and also the red LED comes on when the safety is off.
There are many customisable functions, operated by combinations of trigger pulls with the safety used to activate the menu. It sounds complicated but is a cinch to use. You can adjust power, shot counter from 10-2550 shots, a 10 shot magazine reminder bleep, LED and beep on or off etc etc. All the functions can be turned on or off according to your preferences.
I have just received the low battery warning. The gun does at least 3000 shots at 12ftlbs, it seems. This seems ample as all it then requires is to be plugged in overnight to recharge. At the FAC level, my warning has come on after about 1300shots. This may increase slightly as the battery beds in but I think I will make a note to recharge my battery after every two tins of pellets so I don’t get stranded without power.

Along with the magazine, there is something else that I consider to be different class on this gun. It is incredibly quiet. Despite being twice as powerful, with one of BAR’s Psyclone Logun-style silencers on it, it is easily half as loud as my 12ftlb Rapid Mk2! You hear the slightest thud of report; the firing cycle makes more noise than the pellet exit! Very much like an S200 – and we all know how quiet they are. This makes it a doubly efficient hunting tool.

richness
25-06-2006, 02:32 PM
A small thing that I prefer over the Rapid system is that the air cylinder is easier and quicker to charge. I am obviously aware that the buddy bottle system used on the Rapids has its own advantages but I never liked having to take it off the rifle to charge it. I disliked the noisy dryfiring, having to carry a spanner and the time spent with the system ends exposed to dust entry. The Daystate system has a little détente-ball system that clicks on positively and without tools. A fill can be done in a matter of seconds.

In conclusion, these are the things I like over the Rapid System:
Quieter by a mile
Silent, super smooth bolt action.
Superlative magazine system. Quiet to activate and rattle-free.
Stock.
Silvery bluing on cylinder and general finish quality.
Safety catch. Flicked silenty on and off with your thumb - On the Rapids, the old Anshutz one looked like it came straight from a Meccano set, made a hell of a click and looked truly awful on the side of the stock. The new one, within the trigger guard, I think is unsafe. I think all safety catches that are within the trigger guard are utterly foolish because to reset the safety one has to pull it back towards the trigger. One slip and you have an accidental discharge. If you are supposed to keep your finger away from the trigger when the gun is not safe, why on earth would you want to be messing about with a tiny safety catch half an inch in front of the trigger?

I am also very impressed by:
The accuracy. I can’t directly compare it to other top-flight FAC rifles because I haven’t shot them but rest assured this MK3 is awesome.
The electronics, including the trigger. Whether you use the shot counters or not, it is nice to know the option is there.

Niggles? Well I would have liked to see Allen Keys provided and I think that shot numbers on the mag would have been a classy touch. Otherwise, none. This is the best rifle I have shot (or looked at!) by a country mile.

richness
25-06-2006, 02:33 PM
Right, compared with the new Mk3 Sports FAC, the first thing i have to say is that i use them for different purposes: the RT has the superlative Weaver Grand Slam 6-20x40 on it, and is therefore very limited for ratting, barn work and lamping (which require a wide-angle scope) And short of switching scopes all the time, there's nothing can be done about that. What it is used for all day long is 40-60yard rested sniping, which it is practically perfect for, as is the scope.
So I wanted the Mk3 Sports for rats, lamping and standing faryard work. I put an excellent 3-10x44 Nikon Monarch on it and being lighter and faster and EVEN quieter than the Mk3 RT, it is perfect for all the above. It spits out Baras at the pace the RT shoots the lighter AAs (30ftlbs, up from 23) and is ruthlessly flat and easy to shoot at all my normal farmyard shoot ranges (generally not more than 45yards)
All the things i love in the Mk3 range are there, of course, but there are small improvements over the old RT: the gun is even quieter and deader, which is remarkable and always good, the trigger seems to be angled slightly further back in the guard which feels instantly better, the single-shot tray is magnetic now (great idea)...and the accuracy is just silly (as with RT) - pellet after pellet after pellet through the same hole at 60yards....quite brilliant.
Weight is less; this is ideal for my purposes. I love the RT but horses for coursee, as above: i think the Mk3 Sports stock is really special, in shape and quality of wood (extra thanks to the ever-legendary team at BAR for bagging me a really good one) and the balance perfect. A lot of guns are lengthened in the barrel and cyclinder when they are FAC'd, which throws the balance off slightly and it just takes you that extra second to get a bead on (flying in the face of why one chooses a light and quick gun for farmyard stuff in the first place) but the Sports' action is unchanged so balance remains impeccable. It is very intuitive to me; some guns just feel right straight away: i zeroed it at 40 yards with one mag, then shot, at varying ranges, 26 rats and two pigeons over the next two days without a single miss (i'm used to the trajectory as it is almost identical to the RT shooting AAs...) It just goes "snick" and down falls the rat.....very very impressive.
The only thing that i'd change is that i'd half the brightness of the safety catch LED. The RT one (it's a B) is perfect for me at night but the new one I had to turn off for night use as it was a bit too bright. That's all i can find, guys....what a piece of kit :D
Oh, it's worth adding that i have used my RT in very heavy rain many times without so much as a hint of a problem; i just dry the stock and action when i get in, oil the stock and away we go next day no probs :)

Hellequin
17-11-2007, 02:21 PM
Blimey, I only just found this review but wish I had a few weeks ago as I'm now regretting selling my Mk3 Sports- big time!:(

Top review anyway mate, you just put another spanner in the works as to which PCP (choice was Rapid or BSA S10, til now) I get next with a view to FAC'ing it.;):rolleyes::D

ATB
Paul

richness
17-11-2007, 02:33 PM
Thanks mate - I love both my Daystates :)
The RT's stock is absolute class; like a £5000 shotgun
The Sport is just a bona-fide killing machine; it is just an exercise in perfect balance, which is the key to quick target acquisistion. Add to that a silent , pinpoint and instant 30ftlb blow and it is just utterly devastating from 5-50 yards with a 2.5-10x50 30mm scope on it :D

Rapidnick
18-11-2007, 09:04 AM
An excellent and thoughtful review. My comments would be these.
Pellet Choice. The AA Field is undoubtedly an excellent pellet BUT in even a slight wind in my experience it flies all over the place downrange and so I prefer the Bisley Magnum in my R2..
Reliability. Only time will tell on this one. I suspect that the Rapid will win but that may just be positive prejudice on my part.:D
Filling method. I have to agree that the screw in buddy bottle has 'mixed blessings and curses' in equal measure. With a regulator-which mine has-back filling isn't possible which is a pity. On balance I suppose I am just used to it.
Silence. Interested in your experiences here but my Rapid 2 running at 34 ft lb is pretty quiet with the Evo/Vortex fitted with UK Neil internals. Even quieter with the AWT or Rob Lane too. I would be interested in a side by side comparison on this aspect.

lionel
18-11-2007, 10:34 AM
With a regulator-which mine has-back filling isn't possible which is a pity.

Now Nick - you know that isn't true;)

Hope you're well.

Lionel:)

wandowski
18-11-2007, 10:42 AM
what a review,really enjoyed reading the write up.thanks

lionel
18-11-2007, 10:45 AM
Forgot to say great review of these Daystates Rich. My own observations on the MK3 B FAC match yours exactly. I was quite shocked by how accurately I could shoot it and how beautifully balanced it was.

I only sold it because I came down with a severe case of power obsession.:rolleyes: That's why the Air Wolf appeals to me now - because it looks like it might combine the kind of power I lust after with the refinement of the Mk3.

Lionel

Rapidnick
18-11-2007, 11:26 AM
Forgot to say great review of these Daystates Rich. My own observations on the MK3 B FAC match yours exactly. I was quite shocked by how accurately I could shoot it and how beautifully balanced it was.

I only sold it because I came down with a severe case of power obsession.:rolleyes: That's why the Air Wolf appeals to me now - because it looks like it might combine the kind of power I lust after with the refinement of the Mk3.

Lionel

What!!!! You traitor!!:D

Rapidnick
18-11-2007, 12:07 PM
Now Nick - you know that isn't true;)

Hope you're well.

Lionel:)

I've yet to see the evidence my friend! When are you bringing it over to show me??:D

mikemorton
18-11-2007, 03:07 PM
Excellent review.

Very well done indeed.

And I love my 12ft/lb Mk3 RT as well. :D

lionel
18-11-2007, 04:32 PM
No don't worry Nick - I have a life long love affair with the Rapid. But I'm sure I'll have another Daystate dalliance at some stage though :D.

And yes - I will bring my BACK-FILLING, QF, REGGED FAC RAPID MK2 over.:D:D


What!!!! You traitor!!:D

Lionel

Rapidnick
20-11-2007, 01:11 PM
No don't worry Nick - I have a life long love affair with the Rapid. But I'm sure I'll have another Daystate dalliance at some stage though :D.

And yes - I will bring my BACK-FILLING, QF, REGGED FAC RAPID MK2 over.:D:D



Lionel


I'm looking forward to seeing how the forking thing works?:eek: As well as seeing you of course.:D

verminhunter
21-11-2007, 04:53 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing how the forking thing works?:eek: As well as seeing you of course.:D







Now Now you two, dont want everyone to know that you both are "Lovers".
Honestly people have no shame anymore.:D:D:D

lionel
21-11-2007, 01:08 PM
If you think you can work out how the "forking" thing works by staring at it then be my guest, but I'm not taking it to bits for you:eek:.

And stop spreading rumours Mr Verminmounter. Even if they're true

Lionel :D




I'm looking forward to seeing how the forking thing works?:eek: As well as seeing you of course.:D

verminhunter
21-11-2007, 04:57 PM
And stop spreading rumours Mr Verminmounter. Even if they're true

Lionel :D






I knew there was something going on between you two,I noticed the way you held your rapid and called out "Rapidnickos" at the same time looking at each others eyes.:D:D:D:D

Rapidnick
21-11-2007, 05:34 PM
I knew there was something going on between you two,I noticed the way you held your rapid and called out "Rapidnickos" at the same time looking at each others eyes.:D:D:D:D

Leave me out of this Verminmounter!! Don't judge other people by your own standards. If Lionel was shooting AND looking at my eyes it means he is shooting AT ME!!! Any more scurrilous comments and you will be hearing from my lawyers Bubblos, Squeakos and Gleftikos.:D