New mk3 problem

[Leegallagher]

On both my babies I have had a wanderin zero problem. the zero mooves from left to right and visa versa.
Just inspected further, the figure of 8 which clamps the barel to the resovwire on both is either loose or not clamping properly.
Has anyone else experirnced this?

Lee G

[Guesty]

I don't think the figure of 8 band is supposed to hold the barrel tightly. I have been told that the air reservoir stretches slightly at fill pressure which would effect accuracy if the barrel was clamped to it. It would mean that the barrel would stretch too, or be pulled to one side.

Guesty.

[corkscrew]

this was in another post recently.

check the loading tray screws for tightness.
when using the mag make sure u replace the loading tray screws with the 2 countersunk screws provided.
with out these screws the action moves.

Seggy

[Leegallagher]

Well I found all 3 allen bolts on the figure of 8 loose on both rifles, no sign of thread lock on them either. Got a good 3/4 turn on all of them.
Lets hope its something simple like that causeing the problem, there is no sign of cliping on the outsie of the silencers, airsteams fitted on both.

Lee

[Russ6357]

Have you spoken to Daystate about this problem. Seems unusual that both rifles exhibit the same symptoms.

Have you tried sans silencer?


It sounds to be like contraction/expansion of the air cylinder to me.

Are the cylinders "free floating" or does it touch the stock somewhere along the line (other than the fixing screw of course).

[baz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guesty:
I don't think the figure of 8 band is supposed to hold the barrel tightly. I have been told that the air reservoir stretches slightly at fill pressure which would effect accuracy if the barrel was clamped to it. It would mean that the barrel would stretch too, or be pulled to one side.

Guesty.[/quote]

There should be 5 thou clearance between barrel and 8 plate

Baz

[J. D. Bolton]

Hi Lee I'm like you mate, I actutually own a new MkIII and like you I also have had and still have a problem with the '8' barrel/air cylinder clamp. It has NOTHING to do with silencers or single shot loading tray's. What it IS, is the FACT that the 3 screws in the clamp, screw onto a FLAT POLISHED surface at the front end of the air cylinder. IF its set dead center then barrel IS floating free inside of the upper circle of the '8'. BUT, as we both know, the 3 screws work loose and shifts the barrel over to one side or the other. It needs two things:- (1) Countersinks in the flat surface and glue or (2) A ribbed or stippled surface onto which the screws can hold tight PLUS glue. Till then, do as I've done leave the '8' bridge clamp OFF! and wait for Daystate to solve the problem. Your two plus mine make 3 and if there's 3 then there's bound to be many more. Mine would have gone back by now BUT I'm house hunting and that's the priority NOW.

John.

[Russ6357]

Sounds to me like Daystate might need to take a look at this issue.

I had a similar problem with my Huntsman until Airguns of Arizona fixed it.

They are bright chaps at AofA.

Tony - mayhaps you might have a word?

[Leegallagher]

Thanks for that JDB.
Does useing any thread lock work?

Thanks Lee G

[hareng]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jay Dee Bee:
FACT that the 3 screws in the clamp, screw onto a FLAT POLISHED surface at the front end of the air cylinder.
John.[/quote]

Thats no different to any other Daystate, Titan and many other guns. Effectively once the W point grub screws are tightened it will leave an indent thus alleviating the need for a non polished surface!

Sure these screws are tight? locktite not needed. If A frame still moves, could be a multitude of reasons, first thoughts lie with the inletting which we wont go into.

[This message was edited by Jon on 13 July, 2003 at 20:33.]

[loumartin]

Lee.
During a general inspection yesterday I found my fig 8 clamp srews loose. carried on looking and found two of the 3 grub screws(I think they hold the barrel in) hidden under the fronts scope mount also loose.
Intend to let Tony B know about problem on Monday.
Lou

[Shaggy_Pack]

Hi Ya Lee question? howmany screws does the fig 8 have? if it has more then 2 try to make sure the are about equal, I had a problem with hy barrel stabliser on a Falcon, turned out they wern't screwed in equal, when they were the problem went. hope it helps m8

ATB

Darren

[Guesty]

I am taking mine back to Daystate tomorrow for a check over -it shoots ~3" low at 10 yards which restricts longer range scope elevation.
I suspect that the muzzle end of the barrel is a tad low, which sounds related to the problems discussed.
Will report back with results tomorrow.

Guesty.

[phuttmutter]

are u sure your scope is on parallax?

It would not be the fig. 8 bracket as it is a free floating barrel and no contact is made.

check the barrel visually, any burrs or burnishes in the barrel ?

[Leegallagher]

Is it me or are the amount of small nigly faults on these guns that are coming to light stating to get a bit tediouse?
BTW the fault with the clamp is not limited to either models of the mk3, I own both a and b, and both have the loose screws

Lee G

[longrapid]

i think what it is,people buy with stars in their eyes,when new guns come onto the market you always get probs,i always wait till they have been out a while,dont jump in with both eyes closed.
kevG

[Pinky]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KevG:
i think what it is,people buy with stars in their eyes,when new guns come onto the market you always get probs,i always wait till they have been out a while,dont jump in with both eyes closed.
kevG[/quote]

Totally agree m8 nothing worse than paying that amount of money for a rifle and it don't work proberly

I don't care if the mags get jammeds once outta 10 or it don't fit properly , and they take it bad free of charge and fix it , u still have to pay 20 quid for postage when its not ur fault plus it shouldn't break in the first place

[Leegallagher]

Im keeping my mouth shut, wait till I get down the range next week to see if this has solved the problem at 30+ yards.

Until then I will quetly stew.

<img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_mad.gif" alt="Mad" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::mad:--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_mad.gif" alt="Mad" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::mad:-->

[Numb Nut]

Doesn't sound like a new problem...I have a daystate harrier with a barrel clamp that is held on with 3 grub screws. The barrel itself is held into the breech with 2 grub screws. Any of these come loose and you get zero shifts. The hole in the barrel clamp is slightly larger than the barrel (like Baz said above) so the barrel can free float.

It'd be nice to know the official tightening procedure and torque settings for the various grub screws.

In the absence of these details, my guess would be to start by removing the barrel clamp. Then check the barrel grub screws...if they're loose then undo them a bit more...press the barrel firmly and squarely into the breech (this compresses the O-ring between the barrel and the brass loading port) and then tighten them up snuggly and evenly. Then place the barrel clamp back and unscrew the top 2 grub screws. Tighten the bottom grub screw until the clamp begins to grip the cylinder. Then tighten the top 2 screws a little at a time in turn until they start to bite. Then loosen the lower grub screw, ensure the barrel clamp is central and finally re-tighten the lower grub screw and the job's done.

Thats my procedure for the harrier, but I could be talking complete horlicks...

[Nightingale]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pinky:

Totally agree m8 nothing worse than paying that amount of money for a rifle and it don't work proberly

I don't care if the mags get jammeds once outta 10 or it don't fit properly , and they take it bad free of charge and fix it , u still have to pay 20 quid for postage when its not ur fault plus it shouldn't break in the first place[/quote]

Daystate will collect the rifle and return it so there are no postage charges to pay at all. They have a comprehensive database so they have the information specific to any rifle which they have sold, so they can answer any questions their customers have.

Theoben will make you pay to send them the rifle (even while it's under warranty), then will charge you to send the rifle back. They also claim that they hold no records of who each serial numbered rifle was sold to.

Which company will I not be doing business with again?

David

[stevew71]

Wandering zero Lee ? Sure Bones wasn't lurking around somewhere ? <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->

[justpounds]

I would strongy reccomend that you do not put locktie or similar on the grub screws on yoke on daystates. Had to have mine drilled out when I used thread lock. I have a satinless Steel Midas that is highly polished. Screws do not move on this. I jst grease the threads.

[longrapid]

there are different strenghs of locktite,some of it will just hold the threads till you want to crack em of,that should be ok.
kevG

[Russ6357]

There is a special locktite for screw that will "crack" with a good bit of twist applied. it is blue methinks. It has a magic number but I forget it for now.

[longrapid]

yes its the blue one,i use it all the time,very good stuff,dont know the number though.
kevG

[Daystate]

Cough, splutter, what's happening? Go out in the good weather for a ride over the weekend (vintage Laverda 650) and when I come back I am confronted with a grub screw tightening frenzy.
The front barrel strap is there only as a safety, should the barrel fitted with a long silencer get a clout. there is a 5 thou clearance and it should not have anything to do with the accuracy if the screws are tight or not. The front barrel support is made from alloy and although it is possible to get them tighter, it is also possible to strip the theads. As I am a couple of days late on this post, I can look forward to selling some as spares this week — good job they are only £13.50.

The screws on top of the breech block are another matter. these along with another under the breach block are used to locate the barrel and fine tune the barrel angle in relation to the tube. so they may well appear loose, but tightening them will probably cause alignment and maybe accuracy problems. The old Harrier has a different barrel system to the MK3 and Harrier X, so undoing the screws and pushing the barrel back will cause more problems, this time with magazine clearance.

So, more good weather — back out on the bike again tonight, If you want me I'll be back late or can be contacted via the RAC...

[J. D. Bolton]

The problem with alloy supports comes when there are HIGH TENSILE STEEL SCREWS fastened into the threads. One micro turn too hard and the WEAK threads shear. That's an American TRICK! used to ensure that the purchased item has constant MINOR failures, whereby they can ensure an onging after sales spare parts service. BUT even they NORMALLY make items last longer than a couple of weeks or months?


John.

[tonybel]

So what other type of screw should we use? brass, alloy or chocolate? the fact is that when you have an alloy component care must be taken not to strip out quite soft threads, just common sense really, no 'trick' to it.

Again, this component hs nothing to do other than protect the barrel against side impacts and could do more harm than good if one or more of the screws is already stripped allowing it to move, you would be advised to remove it if you are not prepared to repair/replace it.

This is a high tech recoilless PCP which is usually very accurate and consistent, not a coil bouncing springer, Accuracy problems are not usually down to a loose grub screw. cranking and gluing everything up could do more harm than good.

[Numb Nut]

I posted above with details of how I tighten up the grub screws of my old harrier. Just to clear up any misunderstanding, these have never come undone by themselves! So to avoid a misunderstanding let me be more exact:

The barrel clamp had to be loosened and retighened after I'd accidently bopped the silencer of a fence. Doh! The barrel grub screws were also tight...I only undid them when servicing the rifle. On putting the rifle back together, I had left them on the loose side and hence the wandering zero. Doh again! They've been tightened since and the zero is good.

IMHO, the steel screws in alloy are not a problem area on the harrier. The only thing I'd like to see is a torque setting for the barrel grub screws. I had left them on the slack side because I was paranoid of damaging the threads. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::)-->

[richness]

Just to clarify: are you being sarcastic, Jay Dee Bee?

[Leegallagher]

On both my mk3's the grub screws were loose. Both rifles have had the zero changing from left to right and back again.
It seems strange that both rifles have exactly the same fault and both have loose screws on them.
I will let you know if the problem is resolved when I get to try them down the range on sunday.

Lee

[rustambana]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Russ6357:
It has a magic number but I forget it for now.[/quote]

That's the one I use. There is also 222.

Rustam.

[wadcutter]

apart from the loose screws mentioned my rifle played up once,could not group with it at all,shots all over the place, shots six inches apart,anyway it turned out that the dust cover on the fill valve was in contact with the barrel,when i fitted it back properly accuracy fully restored,glad it was only that.

[KEN58]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daystate:
Cough, splutter, what's happening? Go out in the good weather for a ride over the weekend (vintage Laverda 650)
Laverda 650, dribble, drool, now ya talkin'
So, more good weather — back out on the bike again tonight, If you want me I'll be back late or can be contacted via the RAC...[/quote]

[Leegallagher]

Well with several witneses from the bbs present, we have solved the majic zeroing problem.
All down to the figure og 8 being loose.

Dubworld managed to find another daystate problem on his harrier, whilst adjusting the triger an important pin fell and allmost got lost. Seems the pins arnt a good tight fit on them.

Lee

[sparky]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee G:


Dubworld managed to find another daystate problem on his harrier, whilst adjusting the triger an important pin fell and allmost got lost. Seems the pins arnt a good tight fit on them.

Lee[/quote]

Need to put a small bit of tape over the pins when doing the triggers.

Pete

[jquinton]

Nice one Sparky, bit late though, sure he will remember for next time <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->
Leeg does appear to have solved the problem, his guns were spot on when he got tehm out of the case, as one would expect for an £800 gun.

[dubworld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sparky:

Need to put a small bit of tape over the pins when doing the triggers.

Pete[/quote]

Thanks mate, any more advise you wanna share or have I got to wait untill ive learnt the hard way first <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_razz.gif" alt="Razz" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::p-->

[kev hughes]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dubworld:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sparky:

Need to put a small bit of tape over the pins when doing the triggers.

Pete[/quote]

Thanks mate, any more advise you wanna share or have I got to wait untill ive learnt the hard way first :)<!--graemlin:;)--> :)<!--graemlin::p-->[/quote]

Learn the hard way and ewe will always remember, if you are told about it you will never learn the importance of doing it right :)<!--graemlin::D-->
Kev (sloping off to get his coat :)<!--graemlin::cool:--> )
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/flags/wales.gif