Can't range find in HFT ? Oh yes you can...

[TheShootist]

Having read an earlier thread about range finding with mil dots, set me thinking about it's practical use and doodling with a few figures (maths is not my forte) anyway I came up with a method of range finding for HFT

Distance = Range to target in metres
KZ = Kill Zone size in mm.
MDS = Mil Dot Spans, ie the number of spans between individual mildots covered
MG = Mag of your scope

Distance = KZ / ( MDS / ( MG / 10 ))

As an example if a 40mm kill zone spanned 2 mildots on an 8 mag scope...

Distance = 40 / ( 2 / ( 8 / 10 ))
Distance = 16 metres

Another example if a 25mm kill zone spanned 1 mildots on an 8 mag scope...

Distance = 25 / ( 1 / ( 8 / 10 ))
Distance = 20 metres

Not really practical to carry a calculator and do the sums on a per shot basis. But juggling the numbers round it's easy to knock up a quick table of number of mil dots against range for 40 mm and 25mm targets at your scopes mag.

Regards
Tony


(A typo had crept in to the original posting and another example added in the edit)

[This message was edited by The Shootist on 18 July, 2003 at 14:45.]

[andyiow]

What if they throw in a 45mm KZ <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)--> . The face plate mounting points are probably the best to use as these IIRC are a standard width apart.

[Dave T]

nice idea - but a lot of clubs are using the Simmons head shot targets too - lots of maths involved - but I applaude your commitment and at least you've tried to help.

http://smilies.crowd9.com/otn/realhappy/luxhello.gif

[Davros]

Yeh, nice idea, but like Dave says, we have been using the cut-out type targets --- wait till you see one of those ****** squirrels with the black hole between the tail and the body.........

Dave will know about the perils of such a target.


LeeH

[bozzerman]

FT 20 years ago started with people using HW77s and 3-9X40 scopes.

Now it's 3Ks worth of PCP and 50X sidewheel scope.

Along comes HFT.....Hooray!

We can all use our .22s and a 4x40.

Oh hang on.....my scores aren't very good...I'll get a .177 PCP, a mil-dot scope and a logarithm table to stick on the back of my flip up scope cover.

Bring on the flack!

B <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->ZZER

[FGYT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Shootist:
Having read an earlier thread about range finding with mil dots, set me thinking about it's practical use and doodling with a few figures (maths is not my forte) anyway I came up with a method of range finding for HFT

Distance = Range to target in metres
KZ = Kill Zone size in mm.
MDS = Mil Dot Spans, ie the number of spans between individual mildots covered
MG = Mag of your scope

Distance = KZ / ( MDS x ( MG / 10 ))

As an example if a 40mm kill zone spanned 2 1/2 mildots on an 8 mag scope...

Distance = 40 / ( 2.5 x ( 8 /10 ))
Distance = 20 metres

Not really practical to carry a calculator and do the sums on a per shot basis. But juggling the numbers round it's easy to knock up a quick table of number of mil dots against range for 40 mm and 25mm targets at your scopes mag.

Regards
Tony[/quote]

yep nuffin new in HFT there people ahve been doing it for many years now you can also us a std 30 30 ret and use the thick thin post to cross hair as your mesure

However its not very accurate at the ranges you need it to be at the magnifications you need to use in HFT
for example on 10x mag which is what most Mil dot scopes ate calibrated to be mesuring in mils at (even the 3-9 s :)<!--graemlin::D-->) the 40mm kill fits in one space at 40yrds BUT its very difficult to tell between 35-45yrds remember you have to have the scope rock steady to even attempt it. Even with the ability to use the zoom and bracket method its not that easy to be accurate
http://members.aol.com/FGYT/ANSHUTZ/Reticule_images/Mil_dot_10mag.jpg
image tru 10mag mil dot at a 40mm kill at 30yrds

http://members.aol.com/FGYT/ANSHUTZ/Reticule_images/Mil_dot_50mag.jpg
same target & Range but 50mag now you have a chance but with Shake its very hard to work out exactly what the target is bracketing


as a general rule I use if its smaller than a one dot space @ 10mag its over 40 yrds as a check on my eyeball assesment

Dunc

[Koz]

People are winning HFT comps with £300-£400 guns and £75-£200 scopes. Even cheaper sometimes.

It's just us bad shots that desperately throw money at the game to try and improve. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->

If it's allowed in the rules it's allowed in the rules.

BTW I've decided to have a bash operative word) at FT sometime soon as well.
Swots look out. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)-->
Managed to get some nice kit for under £800.

[bozzerman]

LOL

Koz...

I sensed during those heated arguaments with the FT shooters that you were a closet case just waiting for a chance to reveal your true self. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->

I bet you spend hours with your new FT kit crouched like a bear sh!tting in the woods in front of a large mirror with a sly smile on your face. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)-->

Ay...If it's in the rules, it's in the rules.

For now I'll continue to guess the distances,hold over/under and keep hitting those faceplates. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->

Perhaps one day I'll discover the hidden pleasures of fiddling with a 6 inch sidewheel on a 50X scope (to be truthful I'm really tempted to buy some kit and have a proper go at it this winter) <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)-->

Good luck mate

Bozzer

[TheShootist]

I agree people having been using mil dot range finding years. My exercise was to translate that into an easy formula for HFT use where the kill zone size in mm, number of mildots etc are used to get a range.

The accuracy of the method gets better the shorter the range. Particularly in the very shortest range holdover trasitioning into holdunder ranges I have most difficulty with. Accuracy of ranging rapidly falls off over 30 metres.

Example of 40mm kill zone @ 8 Mag
7.5 metres 4.26 mil dot
10 metres 3.2 mil dot
15 metres 2.13 mil dot
20 metres 1.6 mil dot
25 metres 1.27 mil dots
etc .....

These are big enough differences to range find reasonably accurately.


As to the other comments about targets. I have only (so far) shot events using the standard nockover / AA style targets. With pretty easily recognised kill zones sizes.

Regards
Tony

[This message was edited by The Shootist on 18 July, 2003 at 14:46.]

[darrenpetts]

It works at short ranges as you point out, but most short range targets use a reducer!

There seems to be very few .22 in HFT and virtually no springers, with more than a few Full FT style guns

[TheShootist]

Just put 25 mm or whatever into the formula then...

Tony

[bozzerman]

Tony

Forgive my sarcasm <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->

It's raining so I can't work on the sports ground so I'm making a nuisance of myself on here!

A lot of SAR/HFT I think are using 40mm,25mm and even 10mm kills.

In the Midlands,as Lee says, a lot of knockover silhouette targets are being used.

Those bright green radioactive mini squirrels are a classic. Its like shooting at a giant (well not that giant) polo mint, particularly in a decent cross wind. You can hit it bang in the middle and go through the gap between body and tail.

I've also had trouble with those yellow rat's heads. You hit them on the bottom of the head shape (neck) and the little b*ggers won't go over (particularly at range). you have to 'clip' them on the top of the heads which reduces the 'kill' size (perhaps they need oiling <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->).

Bozzer

[TheShootist]

I dare say I'll come accross these other style targets sooner or later. My post wasn't meant to be a total solution, but an aid where the kill zone size is known. Just have to shoot the "awkward" ones by eye...

Cheers
Tony

[Peter_F]

Nice one Tony.

Do us a favour , leave your maths at home on Saturday if your at LV, I wanna stand at least a bit of a chance at LV club Hunter <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->

Cheers mate

[Dave T]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeeH:
Yeh, nice idea, but like Dave says, we have been using the cut-out type targets --- wait till you see one of those ****** squirrels with the black hole between the tail and the body.........

Dave will know about the perils of such a target.


LeeH[/quote]

I hate them bl00dy squirrels I do http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/contrib/anym/rodent.gif

[loumartin]

Tony
your getting to dam technical you will end up with so mutch to remember you'll forget to put a pellet in before you pull the trigger <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)-->

keep it simple shooting is instinctive mate I rangefind with my eye and trust nowt else, in the field you have to react quick at times. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:;)-->
Lou

[Nev]

I use mildots but in a different way, just seem to be able to tell how far the target by using as reference points, it works for me but not for the dead bunnies and squirrels <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->
Nev

[TheShootist]

Peter_F
Well my maths will probably get left at home as it needed a good dusting down from schoolboy memories to work today. Don't worry about the Hunter comp... my shootings even worse than my rusty maths!

Exverminator
I usually do shoot by eye... my excuse for this is I was stuck in all day as it was raining... and I got bored...

Cheers
Tony

[hwtyger]

is it also possible with a standard rectile?