What gun is that?

[Lakey]

Wondering if anyone can help me with a question that I have had for years?

My question is about Dennis E. Hillers " The collectors guide to Air Rifles"
( The enlarged forth edition)

Can anyone tell me what the gun is that is shown on the outside back cover second one down?

It is the one that is between the cowboy BB gun and the Webley C1

On the one hand it looks like a pre-war BSA, however nothing like any BSA that I have seen before.

Could it be a prototype? It looks to me like the barrel pushes in like a quackenbush?

Can anybody out there help??


Lakey

[silva]

Hello Lakey,

I've wondered about that one too. I think it must be made up. A bit of Hillier
humour.
Best Regards Morgan

[Lakey]

For those that on't have a copy of the book handy, here (hopfully):confused:

is the gun in question.

Please can somebody help me and Morgan out.


http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1585/8209776/15352945/238689330.jpg

[Lakey]

Its the middle one by the way :D

[Lakey]

There must be someone who knows.............:(

[redair]

and the next one down is I think a prototype BSA from pre 1939.
I've seen one, but for the life of me I can't remember where or when.
Push in barrel cocker and somebody on here will give know it's background.
Richard

[Lakey]

Thanks redair,

I didnt have any clue about the top gun, so thanks for your ID. The BSA below it, is I feel a barrel cocker (ie push in the barrel and that should compress tha main spring.) I don't know about loading? Where would you put the pellets in ?
It must be pre-WW2 as BSA brought out the Airsporter and Cadet ranges after the war.

Anyone else with any idea's?:confused:

[silva]

Interesting, but I still think its a made up one.
I think the barrel part is off the Bsa Military Pattern, look at the foresight. If you look carefully on the book cover, you can see on the image where the cover designer has masked off the underlever underneath the barrel. All the other airgun images are sharp.

However if it is a prototype I would love to know more about it.

Has anyone got any links to the maestro himself - Dennis Hiller, then we will have a definate answer !

Regards Morgan

[Lakey]

I have read somewhere that BSA were working on patents for a push barrel cocking air rifle on the run up to the first world war. This project apparently was shelved when the war began.
If that is the case, and if that rifle shown on Hilliers book is genuine - you must be looking at the rarest of the rare.............. Much rarer than any Military Pattern for example.

This then could be the Holy Grail of BSA collecting.......... providing it is real and genuine:eek:

Hmmmmmm interesting thought ? See my interest:D

[silva]

Hello Lakey,

Oh no.......thats another rare Bsa for me to spend endless hours fruitlessly scheming how to get hold of an example !
However I still reckon it is a figment of Hilliers imagination - If you look at the stock, it is of the later wooden buttplate, pre 1918 Improved Model d type. look at that chequering style. Fitted to a later 2 hole block.

Regards Morgan

[Lakey]

Hi Morgan,

I see Ive got you going with this one:D

Imagine this.... BSA has the original idea just at the outbreak of world war one, however the idea gets shelved (not surprising as there was a lot going on just then:rolleyes: )
Somebody resurrects the idea after the war when everyone started to get the materials in again for civilian gun production...... Say 1920ish.
The board of BSA said "do a feasibility study on that" so a small (tantalisingly small;) ) production run was produced before production was stopped because of the run away success of the New BSA Standard patterns.

Officially it was never produced, however one surfaced and found its way to the back cover of Hillers Book??

What do you think?


By the way I found my source.......... John Knibbs "The Golden Century" page 24 and 25. as follows....

"Another interesting development in air rifle design was being carried out concurrently with the new trigger mechanism project (1914) This was a barrel cocking air rifle which also loaded by means of a rotary breech plug or tap. The barrel was pushed into the cylinder to cock the rifle then returned to its original position for firing. This cocking method had previously been patented by Quackenbush in America in 1881. Again the outbreak of the war prevented this rifle going into production commercially. The design was granted patent 1988 in December 1914."

I reckon that picture could be a prototype??????


All I know is that I want one :D :D :D

[Troubledshooter]

I will ask Dennis tomorrow. ;)

[Lakey]

Thanks Troubledshooter, that will sort it. Maybe Dennis might remember who has it :D ;)

[silva]

Hello Lakey,

Hmm.... I'm willing to believe, (rapidly hedging my bets !)

Regards Morgan

[benchstop]

I am sure I have an old copy of airgun world with an article on the push barrel BSA, I will dig it out tomorrow.
Mike

[Troubledshooter]

Spoke to Dennis this evening, and the rifle in question is, as has been suggested, a BSA prototype with push to cock barrel and a pop up loading port.
As far as Dennis knows, it is unique.
It was found during one of BSA's archive sales, but when, I don't know.
It is now believed to be in Robert Beeman's collection.

[silva]

Hello Lakey,

Let it never be said that I'm not magnaminus when proved completely wrong !

Best Regards Morgan

[Lakey]

Morgan, your are a gentleman !

Thats what I love about this Airgun collecting game. Always something new to learn. Shame about it being unique though as I still want one:(

Oh, well I guess I am going to have to live in hope for the time being.:D


ATB

Lakey

[benchstop]

If anyone is interested, I have found the article on the above gun from AGW Dec 1978, by Harvey. The gun may have been owned by Alan Hamer of Manchester airguns, the article shows four good photos of the following... complete gun, gun in bits, foresight, and pop up loading tap. Half a page of text also. If any of you would like a copy of the article PM your details and I will get them in the post.

regards Mike

[benchstop]

Sorry, should have made it clearer, can only post hard copies (snail mail)
No skanner at home at the moment.

Mike

[Lakey]

Benchstop,

You have PM.

Lakey

[Garvin]

The article in question here (http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/Garvin1/BSApushbarrel.jpg) and here (http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/Garvin1/BSApushbarrel1.jpg). :)

[benchstop]

Thanks Garvin, that will save a stamp or three;)

Mike

[Garvin]

Thanks Garvin, that will save a stamp or three;)

MikeTop marks to you for locating the info Mike. :)