Webley Mk 3 - Sights & performance

[dumdum]

I just inherited an old Webley Mk3 rifle. I took it apart and cleaned and oiled it and it seems to work OK.

But I don't know if it really compares well to a modern gun for power/range/accuracy (I have no experience of this stuff - but would like to hunt rabbits/squirrels for the pot)

Can anyone tell me if it is worth persevering with an older gun like this or should I just plumb for a newer gun.

Also the gun I have has open sights - it does have a plate spot welded to the barrel - I presume for sights - Is there a specific type of sights I should be looking for - again will it make much difference?

Thanks for any pointers

[Lakey]

The spot welded scope ramp on the MK3, was only designed for very light telescopic sights, which were common back in the 1960's and 1970's. I would not recommend fitting a modern telescopic sight to it as eventually the weight of the sight will pull the ramp away from the cylinder. This will snap the spot welds and the whole thing will fall off. If you do fit a telescopic sight then only fit up to 4X28 power as this is still light enough not to break the welds.

The open sights are very accurate, but do require a fair bit of practice before you can compare the accuracy to that obtained when you you a telescopic sight.
I personally line up the fore sight blade in the centre of the 'V' Notch on the rear sight, making sure that the top of the fore sight is level with the top of the rear sight. Then through careful adjustment I then set the point of impact at the top of the foresight blade.

So that when the open sights are lined up you still have a complete view of what you are shooting at. If you do what many people do - YOu line up the sights then obscure the target you are shooting at with the lined up sights, you cannot see the target properly and lack of precise shooting results.

Good luck

Lakey

[dumdum]

Thanks Lakey - and do you have a view on the performance of the Mark 3? Is it as powerful/accurate as modern guns?

[Rob M]

I have been shooting my .22 Mk3 quite a bit lately, and with practice I believe it could well be. I have tried a few different pellets, and found that Milbro TR are surprisingly good in it. At the moment I am finding my .22 Longbow more accurate but it's scoped, I am sure that if I persevere with the open sights on the Mk3 it will put in decent groups!

Loads of people have hunted successfully with Webley Mk3s in the past! :) I would say that, give a good lube job with modern lubricants and a new spring, they can develop 10.5, maybe 11 foot/pounds if you're lucky.

[johnbaz]

hello dumdum

the mk3 is as good as anything that you can buy today, everything was machined from billet stock, in fact, i was told that the reason the mk3 was discontinued was because they were too expensive to make!!.

on my .177 mk3, the seal is so good that, if you cock the gun then open the tap and then pull the trigger whilst holding the cocking lever, it holds the pressure within the cylinder, there arten't any other underlever rifles that i know of that will hold the piston back in this way, certainly, my mk5 airsporter won't, i believe this to be due to the fact that the loading tap is tapered in the same way that a gas tap is, it was lapped in for a gas-tight seal- quality or what!!!

john:)
accuracy too is excellent as long as the rifle isn't dieselling:rolleyes:

[Prewar]

If dumdum wants hunt rabbits with the Mk3 wouldn't he be better off with something slightly more modern?
I had a lovely 60's Mk3, and agree they are very well made (gorgeous blueing and stocks!) but with the recoil, fairly heavy trigger & open sights I would have thought the range to be quite short to avoid the risk of maiming animals.
I think mine ran at about 9-10ftlbs, it didnt deisel, but it did kick! I would have been more comfortable hunting with a HW or something.
best wishes
Scott

[tjg]

[QUOTE=Leicastuff;1755961]If dumdum wants hunt rabbits with the Mk3 wouldn't he be better off with something slightly more modern?
I agree,I have loved shooting the older guns i have purchased lately,but for hunting it is obvious a scoped gun is better suited to the job,people used to hunt with the older guns because at the time they wern't older guns,things move on..i think people have hunted with a yoyo in the past...or was it a boomerang
TIM

[Prewar]

Tim,
I haven't hunted since I was a teenager, and probably wouldn't again unless I was really hungry and the shops had shut forever! I suppose its knowing that you can really hit the tiny target that counts, whether you have a scope or not, because for a clean kill with an air rifle that takes considerable skill.
best wishes
Scott

[Sam Vimes]

I have a good MKIII with the standard open sights and a Parker Hale flip out diopter fitted. I wouldn't dream of hunting with it now under any circumstances despite being capable of hitting a 40mm KZ at 35 yards 7 or 8 times out of 10. The rifle is capable of good groups even at range but the sighting system is just not reliable/good enough for hunting particularly as you get beyond 20 yards.

[04gordjac]

i have also just inherited a webely mk 3 but it a little bit rusty but it still workes it is a 22 i was wandering how much power it had because it does not seem to gave a lot also is it worth anything cheers.

[wonky donky]

hello dumdum

on my .177 mk3, the seal is so good that, if you cock the gun then open the tap and then pull the trigger whilst holding the cocking lever, it holds the pressure within the cylinder, there arten't any other underlever rifles that i know of that will hold the piston back in this way, certainly, my mk5 airsporter won't, i believe this to be due to the fact that the loading tap is tapered in the same way that a gas tap is, it was lapped in for a gas-tight seal- quality or what!!!

john:)
accuracy too is excellent as long as the rifle isn't dieselling:rolleyes:


Conversely, I have 2 MK3's in .22 & a MK3 Supertarget in very good condition none of which will hold the piston back in the manner you describe; but my Airsporter MK2 & Airsporter Club that are in poorer condition both will! My personal view is it's a bit of a lottery in this area with all tap loading guns due to manufacturing tolerances & W & T over the years?

[jazzman]

I bought my Mk3 from a gun shop a few years ago, still going strong. When I bought it, it was firing at 1000fps, but I'm sure that must have decreased over the years. Still incredibly accurate and powerful. I've stuck with the stock sight, no scope needed for this beauty. With me at the trigger, so down to my mistakes, it hit a 50p piece from 100ft 3/5 times prone, with no gizmos at all. It's a fantastic rifle and you should definetly keep it. Maybe you ought to get the fps checked out for sure before you start hunting with it, just to make sure it is fast enough to be humane, also use some good pentraters.

[Sam Vimes]

When I bought it, it was firing at 1000fps

Are you sure about that? Sounds awfully high for a MKIII. Only if the pellet was 5.4gn or under would that be sub 12ft.lb!

[fat man]

Clasic Webley rifle. good looks, top workmanship, open sights with practice fairly accurate. Ok trigers not up to Rekord model form Germaney but then what is! mines in.22 a late model, great stock. I do not hunt no need but i use eley wasp in mine in the blue tin proper .22 5.6 not the german 5.5 we have been forced to use. Thanks Mr Beeman !!!. Dont use a scope of modern type or it will pull the spot welded scope ramp of. Enjoy the gun in the understanding of its limitations and practice, practice, and more practice if your going to use it for hunting even a rat deserves a quick end, regards to all .:):)

[gedfinn 2]

I bought my Mk3 from a gun shop a few years ago, still going strong. When I bought it, it was firing at 1000fps, but I'm sure that must have decreased over the years. Still incredibly accurate and powerful. I've stuck with the stock sight, no scope needed for this beauty. With me at the trigger, so down to my mistakes, it hit a 50p piece from 100ft 3/5 times prone, with no gizmos at all. It's a fantastic rifle and you should definetly keep it. Maybe you ought to get the fps checked out for sure before you start hunting with it, just to make sure it is fast enough to be humane, also use some good pentraters.


Your too polite Sam Vines ! 700 fps tops in .177 & 500-550 in .22 & thats with a little dieselling, Great gun, I have 2, for sale, One in in good condition & 2nd repaired stock & tap but still nice, but shoots OK with its square spring,

I was going to put a pic of them up & ask a valuation ( Anyone !! )
As an aside, I see a rear sight for a MK111 went on Fleabay for £35 + post, And a front sight is on there now,
I hope you take this in to account when you make a valuation, Thats £50 + post, just for the sights, ?
I,ll break the 2nd one, If enough intrest .

Cheers,

[edbear2]

Yup, I would agree with geds figures, unless the gun had an acetone spray bar inside or was firing zaps or cleaning pellets 1000fps does seem high!....as an aside on dieselling...I seem to remember all the full size guns (airsporter/mk111 pre war bsa's) that I owned or shot in the 1970's, smelling a bit of burnt oil!....not the proper bang and flash effect you get from a warm gun/big spring combo , but they normally gave a bit of smoke from the breech/barrel when reloading...in the 70's I grew up in a haze of 3 in one!!.......in fact in the original bsa booklet you got with the prewars, the book states "after each session, fill the loading tap with oil, close and cock the gun, then fire to oil the bore and piston":eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:..not sure what reaction you would get at a club if you tried this, but so many have survived in GWO that maybe its a good method to preserve the leather washers and bore!!

[gedfinn 2]

Yup, I would agree with geds figures, unless the gun had an acetone spray bar inside or was firing zaps or cleaning pellets 1000fps does seem high!....as an aside on dieselling...I seem to remember all the full size guns (airsporter/mk111 pre war bsa's) that I owned or shot in the 1970's, smelling a bit of burnt oil!....not the proper bang and flash effect you get from a warm gun/big spring combo , but they normally gave a bit of smoke from the breech/barrel when reloading...in the 70's I grew up in a haze of 3 in one!!.......in fact in the original bsa booklet you got with the prewars, the book states "after each session, fill the loading tap with oil, close and cock the gun, then fire to oil the bore and piston":eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:..not sure what reaction you would get at a club if you tried this, but so many have survived in GWO that maybe its a good method to preserve the leather washers and bore!!


Hiya mate, Your right !!! I only replied because of the outrageous performance figures quoted, !
If the Information being supplied is ( At the very worse ) Is Incorrect, Where does that leave us, & Yes they do smoke,
Cheers, ged,

[Muskett]

I first started with a MKIII in .22 and have one now fitted with a Tasco 1.75? x40, a classic combo circa 1979. They group fine out to 20m or so but I've never had one that could compare to the accuracy of a HW or Sport. Sorry, just don't think much of them. But for their original purpose of shooting with open sights around the farmyard they do the job fine; not that I do that anymore as I use more modern stuff.

At open sight ranges they are as good as anything.

[T 20]

Does anyone know the price of the MK3 compared to an Airsporter when introduced.

Don't get me wrong I own a couple of MK 3's and a couple of early Airsporters and love them to bits. The thing is when I start comparing the two makes side by side and inside out the Webley looks a bit sad compared to the Airsporter. I'm not calling the MK3 as I think they're a very well made gun and should last forever, it's just that the Airsporter was a bit more technically advanced, hence the question on pricing.

All the best Mick

[Sam Vimes]

it's just that the Airsporter was a bit more technically advanced

How?:confused: I can understand that it looked a little more modern, particularly in the latter marks but how was it more technically advanced?:confused::confused:

[T 20]

How?:confused: I can understand that it looked a little more modern, particularly in the latter marks but how was it more technically advanced?:confused::confused:

Hi Sam

Self opening loading tap.
Underlever within the woodwork.
Longer underlever for less effort on the cocking stroke.
Conical headed piston to allow a shorter transfer port to be used.
New trigger design compared to the Lincoln pattern.

Just bits and bobs like that.

All the best Mick

[Orangeherald]

I bought my Mk3 from a gun shop a few years ago, still going strong. When I bought it, it was firing at 1000fps, but I'm sure that must have decreased over the years. Still incredibly accurate and powerful. I've stuck with the stock sight, no scope needed for this beauty. With me at the trigger, so down to my mistakes, it hit a 50p piece from 100ft 3/5 times prone, with no gizmos at all. It's a fantastic rifle and you should definetly keep it. Maybe you ought to get the fps checked out for sure before you start hunting with it, just to make sure it is fast enough to be humane, also use some good pentraters.
Smiths Gas Air and Spring guns quotes the Mk3 as about 600fps in .177 so 1000 seems way too high. In my experience they are about the same power as an Airsporter or Club, at around 9 or 10 ft lbs. I spent many years shooting rabbits quite effectively with that sort of power. Its a matter of knowing where the pellet will go and putting it in the right place!

[Hsing-ee]

The Webley MkIII is only suitable for close-range hunting work, less than 20 yards. It rarely makes more than 9 ft/lbs and the accuracy is really not up to modern standards, a factor compounded by the inability to fit a proper scope. It is beautifully made however, so keep it as a plinker/collector's item.

Buy an Weihrauch HW95 or similar if you want a hunter, and a decent scope.

[edbear2]

Does anyone know the price of the MK3 compared to an Airsporter when introduced.all the best Mick

HI Mick.......In 1958, in the same Parker Hale Catalogue, The mark 3 was £15.5.6d, and the Airsporter / Club Airsporter (both same price!) was £16.11.8d

Mark3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31228487@N07/3320128532/in/set-72157608030264100/)

Airsporter(s) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31228487@N07/3320101632/in/set-72157608030264100/)

regards, Ed

[T 20]

HI Mick.......In 1958, in the same Parker Hale Catalogue, The mark 3 was £15.5.6d, and the Airsporter / Club Airsporter (both same price!) was £16.11.8d

Mark3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31228487@N07/3320128532/in/set-72157608030264100/)

Airsporter(s) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31228487@N07/3320101632/in/set-72157608030264100/)

regards, Ed

Cheers Ed

I think I'd have spent the extra 14 shilling and tuppence and had the Airsporter then. ;)


The Webley MK3 being a copy of a copy of a Lincoln Jeffries, the Airsporter being an improved Lincoln Jeffries.

Thanks again


All the best Mick

[webleymk1]

hi dumdum
just reading your story, on the webley mk3.
i bought my first mk3 in 1973,
from whitton guns and tackle shop.
i shot many a rabbit with mine, open sighted and scoped.
around the hanworth waterboard ,hampton rugby fields boardering kempton park area's.
i brought a secondhand one, in early 2010 to rekindle my youth.
to my absolute amazement , this one is open sighted .
i shot spinners set at 45yds, at our club two pence piece size .22 mk3 .
fantastic gun sit, lovely in the hand and shoulder.
arhhh i think i'm going for a plink now .
regards webleymk1

[London Lad]

Nearly 40 years ago I worked in a shop that sold both the Mk3 and the Airsporter.

The Mk3 was a far higher quality gun, the fit and finish as really first class.

[barryeye]

I bought a MKIII new 47 years ago. Still have it. At the time it was a toss up between it and the Airsporter. Almost 50 years on I now own some MKI Airsporters and frankly I am sorry that I chose fit and finish over looks and performance. Still love my MKIII but the BSA wins the day for me.
Barry (Ex London Boy)

[johnbaz]

I love my Webley Mk3 (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/johnbaz/guns/webleymk3s4.jpg) rifles, I also love my airsporters (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/johnbaz/guns/rifleAirsportermk1and2s-1.jpg)


John:)

[Mike95]

I have had 5 of this model at one time, now down to 2!! They were all different, paricularly the fit of the tap, and I found the best way of obtaining consistency was to replace the leather piston seal with a home turned PTFE piston seal....after lubing with modern materials, the power would go straight to 9+ ft/lbs after half a dozen shots and stay there. A new leather washer took a lot of bedding in.

Lovely old guns... a copy of a pre war Diana, which in turn was a copy of a BSA, according to my info! A 29 year production run...not bad, but not really a serious hunting rifle past 25 yards.

Mike95

[PaulR]

I have two of them, they are great and both Chrony at 10.5/11.5 ft/lbs - they have open sights and no means of fitting a 'scope.

TBH using open sights was how I learned to shoot. You either aimed and hit or missed. You learned that you REALLY had to decide that the foresight was EXACTLY on a level with the top of the "U" of the rearsight. Then you had to centre the foresight EXACTLY in the middle of said "U" at the same time. I still do the same juggling act today - don't breathe when shooting.

So - in answer to the original post - yes, Mk3 with open sights is just as good as a modern gun with a tele at the same (close) range.

But are you?