is this typical?

[red bob]

ive really just started collecting british air guns and pistols namely webley junior/seniors and airsporters,but something occured to me while admireing my latest aquisition a mk2 airsporter[1961] ithink] was that later models seem to have less refinements the mk 2 has a nice solid all steel foresight with a spring loaded rear sight ,the cocking lever activates the breech,the wood is far better quality.while my immaculate mk6 lacks nearly all of these.
th early webley pistols are in most not all cases sporting knurling a solid steel body ,argueably nicer grips is this another reason why we are drawn to the older more traditional finish?its just a personnel opinion i love them all and am in the process of stuffing my 2 up 2 down with every model.it seems to me that things went the wrong way in regards to refinement.most quality foreign
products im thinking cars/mycles seem to give a better speck with the new model for little extra money.the latest hawk scope for example brighter image[4/40]finger trrts better fast focus and the price £2 more than the old one.does this give some idea as to why some of our famous names went to th wall?

[Garvin]

Older airguns are often beautifully made because more modern, cheaper, easier to work materials weren't available and a fine finish was considered more important by the manufacturers than low price. At least one airgun maker, Falke, went to the wall within years of starting up because they wouldn't compromise on quality in a time of economic austerity and were priced out of the market.

I sometimes think that airgun makers hit a kind of 'sweet spot' where old-style quality is not compromised but design has moved on far enough to produce a technically advanced and high-functioning gun. In Webley pistol terms I think the post-War Senior was that sweet spot, though with the Webley rifles I'm not sure. Could the MK2 Airsporter have been that time for BSA?

[Gareth W-B]

Could the MK2 Airsporter have been that time for BSA?
Hmmm, a very interesting point. I have a superb RB-2 .177 Airsporter that I got off Sam Vimes, but the MkII that I got from daveuk has certainly got something that none of my other Airsporters have ever had and so I think you've got something there Garvin my old china, definitely go something ;). ATB: Gareth W-B.

[Powderfinger]

I find that more recently made guns and kit often have more useful features (decent scope rails, silencers, rubber butt-pads, sling studs, good triggers) but the vintage guns usually have better wood, better metal-finishing and more hand-finishing even if they were bottom-of-the-range guns at the time. I think it's to do with a higher expectation of gunsmithing in the 50s and 60s plus a lack of much foreign competition.

[Lakey]

Part of the joy for me of collecting vintage air guns is their quality. Often they were made by Firearms manufacturers, using the same steel, and methods in use for their firearms. The rot started to set in in the mid 1960's when most air gun manufacturers started to look for cheaper ways to manufacture their guns.
Solid steel and heavy forgings were replaced by lighter materials and alloys. Lighter none load bearing components were replaced by plastics, Walnut was replaced by Beech etc etc.
To me the airsporter range is an excellent example of what happened. Take a look at a MK1 Airsporter. Then take a look at a MK V Airsporter. You would think you were looking at two totally different guns/models.
Another comparison could be the BSA Cadet versus the BSA Meteor?

Anyway an appreciation of quality is why I love old airguns.

Lakey

[Jim McArthur]

Part of the joy for me of collecting vintage air guns is their quality. Often they were made by Firearms manufacturers, using the same steel, and methods in use for their firearms. The rot started to set in in the mid 1960's when most air gun manufacturers started to look for cheaper ways to manufacture their guns.
Solid steel and heavy forgings were replaced by lighter materials and alloys. Lighter none load bearing components were replaced by plastics, Walnut was replaced by Beech etc etc.


Lakey


Sounds like pre-1960's is a good cut-off point for separating the collectible wheat from the chaff.

Jim

[fat man]

have to agree, the quality of finish is superb on older guns, for example my oldest useable gun is a cs serial number Stadard BSA, it was made in 1931 and found it in a skip in Cardiff. Still shoots great and can only marvel at attention to detail, ditto my pre war Webley pistol. quality seemed to go out of the window around the 70,s, it was noticeable that an old mark 2 airsporter i owned but subsequently sold had better finish than a latter model mark 5 . So yes maybe early to late 60,S could be a cut of point in quality over mass production and cheapher methods, i for one allways loved older webleys eg Falcon but the Hawk /Osprey/ Vulcan with plastic open sights which i allways semmed to break were in many ways a steep back as far as some aspects of quality . atb :)

[keith66]

I will echo what others have said, many manufacturers turned out high quality rifles built along traditional lines, by traditional they were not hand fitted but true well engineered mass production, dont forget that the likes of BSA & Webley had built millions of military weapons for many wars for nearly a century Everything from Martini's to Lee Enfields, then machine guns & the awful sten guns.
We knock the chinese rifles & Relums but put one side by side with a late 70's airsporter or meteor and take a good hard look at how & what they are made of. The BSA will not stand close inspection as they were truly awful built from soft mild steel with painted finish. To coin a phrase a good design had been simplified & cost cut as if it was a sten gun.

[ggggr]

I had an abused meteor in the mid 70s and then bought myself an airsporter---(I did a "guns of youth thread a few weeks back) Ive got quite a few Cheapo guns now and I think that Diana,s went downhill in the 70,s. I had never heard of a Webley falcon as a kid but really rate them now but wish the piston was more like the Hawks (a falcon with a good piston and a windage block would be brilliant). Diana 25,s are another gun I rate. I like the mk2 airsporter that I got and it does seem a better built gun than the mk6 I bought in 1978. I think the senior is the nicest webley pistol triggerwise and build wise. I will probably look at some older /pre war guns in the future.
My mate has no sense about guns and I know he would fancy a relum tornado. I bought him a b2 18 months ago and told him to throw it away when it broke but it does him to plink. If I had to get an older gun (almost idiot proof) for him it would be a baikal (still after a cheap Ij 38) or a Diana 25.
Thats my views.