Light Stream 4.5-14X44 TMR

[Wally Ferris]

The above I've had for a few weeks now, and it has given nothing but flawless performance.

I visited BTAS to view one, and Ben explained the different aspects very enthusiastically, and appears quite keen of these scopes Himself which is always a good testimonial ;).

I purchased one, and went on my way to collect the Steyr it was destined to be mounted on.

Light Transmission: One superb aspect of this scope, even in low light is still gives excellent clarity, particularly in the dim winter light we are experiencing at present.

Turrets: These are fairly high profile target jobbies, 1/8 MOA double sprung. Extremely positive mechanical adjustment to them, and clearly marked in gold lettering.

Adjustable objective: Works via the usual front set parallax ring, smooth, and gliding operation. One slight difficulty is it will not PX below 15 yards.

Waterproof: Now this is quality!, no matter how wet the lenses get you still receive a clear sight picture!. I was literally tipping rain out the eye bell, yet the scope remained perfectly clear despite having the lenses drenched with beads of rain. The scope itself is perfectly secured against the elements.

Finish: Very slick matte black, which is quite thickly applied, and scratch resistant. Nice an even all over application, with gold lettering gives a very classy look to the scope.

Weight: I'm not cognisant of the exact weight, however it adds a very reasonable amount to the rifle unlike the usual over chunky styles. A 25mm tube allows it to mount very low to the rifle itself.

Reticle: The superb tactical milling reticle, usually only found on state of the art tactical Leupold's. Gives easy holdover estimation, and a uncluttered grid.

First Focal plane: This is what makes these so different, as opposed to the second focal plane type scopes it features the far more unusual first focal plane. This guarantees no POA changes whatsoever due to adjustment of the magnification, or P/X. The reticle stays perfectly clear too, and the higher the mag the larger it becomes, bizzare, but quite useful IMO.

So overall I rate these scopes very highly, particularly for HFT, and hunting due to it's ability to withstand temperature changes, and moisture.

They aren't cheap, but are well worth the money overall, and give the same quality glass as far more expensive makes.

Give one a try :).

[Mog]

Nice review :)
I've tried many different scopes in the last few months, but the Lightstreams are definitely 'keepers'. Only point I would disagree with is that mine seem to PX down to about 10yds without problem.

[derek austin]

Have to agree- still getting used to it, but so far very impressed. Low light performance isn't quite as good as my Zeiss (not much is TBH) , but very nearly, and that's saying something.

Derek

[Zico]

I agree with nearly everything you say.. except the 15 yards, mine also goes down to about 10 yards.

If I was being harsh Id say I find the fact that it tunnels up to x 6.5 mag a tad dissapointing but as I hardly ever use it below x7 its not an issue for me. I'd also prefer if it had side focus for fast and easy ranging.

Overall- A brilliant scope. The FFP type ret system is so well suited to air rifles, makes it the near perfect scope for me. Get one.. you wont regret it


Btw.. Falcon have just brought out a FFP Menace with side focus. ;)

[Wally Ferris]

Cheers for all the replies folks.

They are indeed one of the best scopes on the market, and the fact so few get resold is testament to the number of happy shooters using them IMO.

Well worth paying the extra for.

[flims]

i have used one belonging to a friend of mine. i agree with most of what you said.

i did have a little 'problem' with the stiff turrets. i know S&B also feel somewhat stiffer than other scopes like leupold but their knob is wider and you can apply more torque if thats the correct word for it.

i do like the FFP reticle alot. however bearing all that in mind i don't find the 1/8" that appealing for me, i would prefer to go with 1/4" or else given the option, Metric turrets to have reticle and turrets matching.

the front parallax works great but easier to have it as a side turret. i have found most of these features in the Falcon Menace scopes and they have been receiving alot of good reviews online. if i remember well they also come at a better price.

one more thing im remembering about the lightstream. this same friend has also the one with the higher mag and 30mm tube. the scope is lovely to use however i was much bothered by the fact that the elevation turret has NO lines demarcating at what revolution you are at and me being a clicker i find major fault in that. to others this is not a concern.
m 2p

[Zico]

The "stiff" turrets you speak of Films are due to the fact that they are double sprung.. a small trade-off Im more than happy to put up with for their repeatability/reliability. These scopes are the real deal and are built to last.

[bengarzy]

Alan put so much time and effort into the Light-Stream project and the people that wanted to know about his scope, its such a shame he did not have more time. Sadly he passed away on the 6th of March, Daniel and I will miss him greatly, such a genuine and nice person.

Ben Taylor

[paulw6969]

i have 2 of them one on fac theoben mfr with 16" barral awt silencer tuned by the master
and the other on btas hft 400 .and they both mag down to 10yds
i also have lupo on .22 anshutz 1417 and the only reason i have it is that mate of mine got it from usa for me if i am realy honest i prefer the lightsteam they are the dogs.

[Zico]

Alan put so much time and effort into the Light-Stream project and the people that wanted to know about his scope, its such a shame he did not have more time. Sadly he passed away on the 6th of March, Daniel and I will miss him greatly, such a genuine and nice person.

Ben Taylor

Thats very sad news Ben. When I 1st put a wanted ad in for my Lightstream on here Alan offered to send me one to try at no cost and with no obligation to buy, a superb gesture.

A sad loss for scope industry and to the BBS.. My thoughts go out to his family and friends. Rest in peace mate

[mattup]

I have just received mine from BTAS. Really pleased with the service from Dan and the scope is amazing. The optics are crystal clear, the finish is shear quality. It’s a keeper for sure!

[Br0dy]

Anyone else find it "fussy" on eye positioning?

[blue]

Just ordered the 5-20 x 50 from Airmasters.
Today I had a look through the 4-14 x 44 and it is definitely the best glass this side of a Zeiss Conquest series I have looked through.
The 5-20 is nice and fine for long range day time and the illumination will make it suitable for nightime.

Excellent scopes from what I have seen so far.

[derek austin]

[QUOTE=blue;2605110]Just ordered the 5-20 x 50 from Airmasters.
Today I had a look through the 4-14 x 44 and it is definitely the best glass this side of a Zeiss Conquest series

I have both, Conquest and Lightstream: I´d say the Zeiss is just a bit sharper, but I like the Lightstream just as much - great reticle.

Derek

[blue]

Looks like it has fallen through.
Airmasters will only supply if they can order 3 of them.
Minimum order is 3.
Looks like I'll be importing my next new scope:( ....... Again:rolleyes:

[Mog]

Looks like it has fallen through.
Airmasters will only supply if they can order 3 of them.
Minimum order is 3.
Looks like I'll be importing my next new scope:( ....... Again:rolleyes:

Don't understand your problem:confused: there are plenty of Lightstream stockists

http://www.light-stream.co.uk/contact.htm

[Sam Vimes]

Am I missing something here? The title of the thread suggests TMR (Tactical Milling Reticle). Even on the Lightstream website it's a little hard to tell for sure but isn't the reticle just a modified mil-dot reticle rather than a half mil type reticle as TMR would suggest? Other than the reticle, how much different are these scopes to the remarkably similar looking Weaver Tacticals?:confused:

[nurek]

Other than the reticle, how much different are these scopes to the remarkably similar looking Weaver Tacticals?:confused:

Not much Chris, but try getting hold of a Weaver Tactical :eek:

I had 2 Weaver Tacticlas at one point and sold one to a guy who already had a Lighstream, he reckoned that the Weaver is slightly better and does not suffer from parallax error as much (he uses it for HFT), from what I understand he sold the Lighstream and kept the Weaver ;)

[Sam Vimes]

Not much Chris, but try getting hold of a Weaver Tactical :eek:

I had 2 Weaver Tacticlas at one point and sold one to a guy who already had a Lighstream, he reckoned that the Weaver is slightly better and does not suffer from parallax error as much (he uses it for HFT), from what I understand he sold the Lighstream and kept the Weaver ;)

Thanks for that, I have often wondered. I also wonder why no-one bothered with the Weaver version when it was available?:confused:

P.S. Although I've never seen the 4.5-14 Weaver Tactical I was jammy enough to get my sticky mitts on a Weaver Tactical In the 3-9x40 flavour. I'm a little surprised Lightstream didn't do a version of the smaller scope if, as suggested, the 4.5-14 is indeed based on the Weavers. :confused:

[blue]

Not much Chris, but try getting hold of a Weaver Tactical :eek:

I had 2 Weaver Tacticlas at one point and sold one to a guy who already had a Lighstream, he reckoned that the Weaver is slightly better and does not suffer from parallax error as much (he uses it for HFT), from what I understand he sold the Lighstream and kept the Weaver ;)

Hens teeth.
A guy at Wendover had one and it was excellent. I tried impoting them but could not. I've only seen two of the higher mag ones. Guesty has one and it is superb.
I now have the 5-20 version (light Steam) with standard mildots and it is rather good:)

[nurek]

Hens teeth.
A guy at Wendover had one and it was excellent. I tried impoting them but could not. I've only seen two of the higher mag ones. Guesty has one and it is superb.
I now have the 5-20 version (light Steam) with standard mildots and it is rather good:)


I sold it to a guy at Wendover ;) however there are 2 at Wendover, Dave has one and Steve has one, Dave has my old one. I still have one, and I am not sure I will ever sell it, best optics I have seen on a Jap scope, not far behind Conquests, Meoptas and other 'cheaper' european glass...

[the_wolf]

i find it hard to work out the milling system where my pellet is going to hit???? its spot on zero at 25y but every thing out to 50y is so hard to judge.as this scope is so acurate....or maybe i just cant shoot!!!! only shoot with it a handfull of times....

[derek austin]

FWIW - my MPR/lightstream is

on low mounts
zero 25 yds
.177 @ 780 fps
10 x mag
20yds paralax

8 yds - minus 1 mil
10 yds - minus 1/2
12- 30 yds - zero
35 - top of kill (+ 1/2 mil)
40- + 1mil
45 + 1.5mil
50 +2 (and a bit)

..but that's just my set up;)

Derek

[D Hat]

Hens teeth.
A guy at Wendover had one and it was excellent. I tried impoting them but could not. I've only seen two of the higher mag ones. Guesty has one and it is superb.
I now have the 5-20 version (light Steam) with standard mildots and it is rather good:)

The scope you've seen is mine ,best money i ever spent, now trying to work out who you are?

[mickc]

Thanks for that, I have often wondered. I also wonder why no-one bothered with the Weaver version when it was available?:confused:

P.S. Although I've never seen the 4.5-14 Weaver Tactical I was jammy enough to get my sticky mitts on a Weaver Tactical In the 3-9x40 flavour. I'm a little surprised Lightstream didn't do a version of the smaller scope if, as suggested, the 4.5-14 is indeed based on the Weavers. :confused:

Just read this thread and thought people might like to know Optics warehouse has these scopes in http://opticswarehouse.co.uk/products.asp?cat=322

[Sam Vimes]

Just read this thread and thought people might like to know Optics warehouse has these scopes in http://opticswarehouse.co.uk/products.asp?cat=322

Mick,
that website has said the same thing for months and months. In that time the Weaver brand has been sold. The Tactical model has yet to reappear in the Weaver catalogue or any other outlet worldwide that I've managed to find. Optics warehouse can say what they like but it would be a big surprise if they really can get them in two weeks.;)

http://www.weaver-mounts.com/weaveroptics/RiflescopeList.html

However, there does look to be two new "Tactical" models in the updated Weaver PDF Catalogue. http://www.weaver-mounts.com/weaveroptics/Weaver_Catalog_08.pdf

[Korium]

he reckoned that the Weaver is slightly better and does not suffer from parallax error as much

Own both a Weaver and Lightstream. The LS has better glass, but the Weaver is slightly better built.
The finish on the Weaver is also different; a coarse matt black instead of the satin black on the LS.

Between the two I prefer the Lightstream, but it is a particularly good example.

PS: DOF is also smaller on the Weaver.

[k.c.]

i have two eb snipers after looking through a lightstream at a shoot i was suprizes how bright the lightstream was.i have now brought one.AT 8 to 10 yds i shoot dead centre with the snipers but wih the lightstream i have to shoot at 11 oclock to hit centre.All the other ranges are spot on im baffled

[victorbogdan]

great reticle and clear optics but to expensive for what he can offer sold it and bought a Bushnell 4200 6-24x50 MD Tactical great scope better value for money

[Lavant_Lad]

i have two eb snipers after looking through a lightstream at a shoot i was suprizes how bright the lightstream was.i have now brought one.AT 8 to 10 yds i shoot dead centre with the snipers but wih the lightstream i have to shoot at 11 oclock to hit centre.All the other ranges are spot on im baffled
That sounds like Parallax error as the Lightstream only goes down to 15yards.

[Kyoto]

I had two of the first focal plane Lightstream.

Optically they are brilliant, but it seems that much of the bright picture is due to the ret being formed from wire rather than engraved in the glass.

The worst aspect however is the parallax error if using holdover (so I'm a wee bit surprised by the comments about it being a great HFT 'scope.....it's not!) As a dial in for the range being shot it makes an excellent sniper 'scope.

Then again I bought a Bushnell 6500 & thought that to be way over rated too.

I've no experience with the upper end 'scopes such as S&B or Ziess by the way

ATB

Ken

[Mog]

I had two of the first focal plane Lightstream.

Optically they are brilliant, but it seems that much of the bright picture is due to the ret being formed from wire rather than engraved in the glass.

The worst aspect however is the parallax error if using holdover (so I'm a wee bit surprised by the comments about it being a great HFT 'scope.....it's not!) As a dial in for the range being shot it makes an excellent sniper 'scope.

Then again I bought a Bushnell 6500 & thought that to be way over rated too.

I've no experience with the upper end 'scopes such as S&B or Ziess by the way

ATB

Ken

Glad I hadn't read this before scoring 60 ex 60 in a recent Southern Hunters round, with one of these scopes, it might have put me off. :rolleyes:

Tip for anyone using a Lightstream, try it on 8x mag. Keeps the same aimpoints but seems to have less px error, than at higher power.

[Kyoto]

Great shooting.....I suspect you could shoot using a milk bottle as a 'scope though!

And we seem to agree on the parallax error. Have to admit that I didn't try keeping at 8x though. But didn't think that with a £400+ FFP I'd need to limit how I wanted to use the 'scope

ATB

Ken

[Sam Vimes]

Glad I hadn't read this before scoring 60 ex 60 in a recent Southern Hunters round, with one of these scopes, it might have put me off. :rolleyes:

Tip for anyone using a Lightstream, try it on 8x mag. Keeps the same aimpoints but seems to have less px error, than at higher power.

Ever tried the 3-9x40 Weaver Tactical? I suspect that you might rather like it.;)

[paulw6969]

I have 4 one all the guns i hunt with .22 theoben fac btas 400 btas elan .20 gin b stock and ruger 10/22 flawless

[Mog]

Ever tried the 3-9x40 Weaver Tactical? I suspect that you might rather like it.;)

One of the few that I havn't tried, :o main problem for me is reticle clarity/focus, due to poor eyesight. Most expensive 'mistake' so far, has been a Mk4 Leopold with a TMR reticle, much too fine for my eyes. :(

[Mog]

Great shooting.....I suspect you could shoot using a milk bottle as a 'scope though!

And we seem to agree on the parallax error. Have to admit that I didn't try keeping at 8x though. But didn't think that with a £400+ FFP I'd need to limit how I wanted to use the 'scope

ATB

Ken

Not so much 'limiting' in use Ken, more the point that head/eye position is more critical with some scopes.

[Sam Vimes]

One of the few that I havn't tried, :o main problem for me is reticle clarity/focus, due to poor eyesight. Most expensive 'mistake' so far, has been a Mk4 Leopold with a TMR reticle, much too fine for my eyes. :(

It's just a baby Lightstream with a plain mil-dot reticle and fixed PX. Shame that they are like rocking horse do-do and that Lightstream didn't update them in the way that they did with its bigger sibling.

[Stuart_B]

I had two of the first focal plane Lightstream.

Optically they are brilliant, but it seems that much of the bright picture is due to the ret being formed from wire rather than engraved in the glass.......

Ken


Okay I've read this a few times, and yet any official description clearly states the LS features a glass etched ret.?

So which is it? :confused:

[Scooby]

I had two of the first focal plane Lightstream.

Optically they are brilliant, but it seems that much of the bright picture is due to the ret being formed from wire rather than engraved in the glass.

The worst aspect however is the parallax error if using holdover (so I'm a wee bit surprised by the comments about it being a great HFT 'scope.....it's not!) As a dial in for the range being shot it makes an excellent sniper 'scope.
Ken

The Lightstream has a Glass etched reticle & it's parallax error is no more than most scopes for a given head movement. What most people see as more parallax error on this scope is purely down to massive field of view, you can move your head quite a way & you will still see the picture. This massive head movement will give you plenty of parallax error but during normal shooting you don't move you head side to side this much, for a set head movement (10mm) the Lightstream is slightly better than the Bushnell 6500 & better than the EB Sniper, this is using the same parallax setting & magnification.

[Scotland rifles]

I was going to have one of these for the new 17hmr sako ??

but there seems to be a few people that are not that happy with it,

mmmmmmmmmmm

what to go for now,

bob.

[Sam Vimes]

I was going to have one of these for the new 17hmr sako ??

but there seems to be a few people that are not that happy with it,

mmmmmmmmmmm

what to go for now,

bob.

Bob,
there's not a scope made that will get universal praise. Because of this I learned to not take too much notice of what others have to say, positive or negative. What works for their eyes might not work for me and vice versa. Make your own mind up, preferably after at least looking through the scope you intend to buy if you possibly can.;)

[Scotland rifles]

Bob,
there's not a scope made that will get universal praise. Because of this I learned to not take too much notice of what others have to say, positive or negative. What works for their eyes might not work for me and vice versa. Make your own mind up, preferably after at least looking through the scope you intend to buy if you possibly can.;)

good point Sam

bob.

[jagxkrs]

Bob if your anywhere near Lyneham in the next few days drop me a PM, mines on my Wolf but it will give you a good idea how good these scopes are:D:D

[Scotland rifles]

Bob if your anywhere near Lyneham in the next few days drop me a PM, mines on my Wolf but it will give you a good idea how good these scopes are:D:D

cheers bud.

i was in hatfield luton dunstable and m K today so i could be about next week,

will keep you posted.

oh ! and thank you for that

bob.

[Feral]

Just to add my two penneth...

I've had my Lightstream for a couple of weeks now. I went from an EB Sniper to the lightstream. It's on low mounts and sitting on top of my Walther. I've noted the comments both on here and fellow lead slingers that have Lightstreams regarding the parallax and head position. I've gone the scope enhancer route and put a DG Enhancer on the back which forces me to be more disciplined and because of this I've not experienced problems related to head position (although I know not everyone gets on with scope maximisers it definately helps me)

What drew me toward the lightstream was two things, firstly that I was dropping points on closer targets in HFT due to them being an indistinguishable splash of lead and secondly I wanted something I could dial down for ratting. On the first point it definately did the trick. I am trying shooting at x8 for HFT and the visibility and clarity are fantastic but I still need to see how it copes with the Buxted woods and those non standard 45 yard targets but testing so far seems promising from 8 to 45. For the second point I am still waiting for the rats to find their way back over from the woods as I hit them pretty hard 2 weeks ago ;)

I've put some time into getting comfortable shooting it at different PX setting and different mags and it seems to hold true incredibly well. I usually try to bracket where possible to reinforce my range estimation and I've found even at x8 with the fine ret I am able to do so reliably.

For the Lightstreams first outing I used it on Sunday for the Sussex interclub at Swallows, there was a mixture of wood and open field targets and therfore a mix of light and shade yet everything remained clear from about 10 yards out, the torrential rain didn't help but the scope stood up to it okay. I put in a 58 ex 60 on my first run with it so it's definately a keeper.

Atb

Cliff

[Ian Harford]

The Lightstream has a Glass etched reticle & it's parallax error is no more than most scopes for a given head movement. What most people see as more parallax error on this scope is purely down to massive field of view, you can move your head quite a way & you will still see the picture. This massive head movement will give you plenty of parallax error but during normal shooting you don't move you head side to side this much, for a set head movement (10mm) the Lightstream is slightly better than the Bushnell 6500 & better than the EB Sniper, this is using the same parallax setting & magnification.

Well said Pete,

I've used a Lightstream 4.5-14x44 for a full year of FT (SFT Grade), HFT and I have one on my CZ rimfire too. I use it for HFT between 9 ad 45 yards, FT between 8 and 55 yards and all the way up to 115 yards for long range rabbits with the rimmy (Leaving parallax set at 70 yards). Typically i use 12 mag for SFT, 9 mag for HFT and 10 mag for the rimfire.

The Lightstream has performed outstandingly well for target work (according to my trophy cabinet) and hasn't let me down in the field (according to my freezer!), even with all of the different mag and parallax settings. Myself and Pete had a one-two in the Anglo American last year using lightstreams, and I also won the UKAHFT Matchplay with mine.

In all my years of shooting (airgun, small bore, full bore and big game), I have been fortunate to have used some of the very finest optics ever built, and I can say with some certainly that the Lightstream offers a level of performance far beyond its pricetag. But like anything else, you have to put the work in to get the best out of it.

It all really comes down to setting up your stock properly so that your eye falls consistently and effortlessly behind the scope, and then concentrating carefully on your position. I have tested over 20 different air rifles over the past year using a Lightstream, and only 2 have allowed me to position my head in a way that I am consistenly at the centre of the eyepiece. Both had adjustable stocks.

I originally used 10 mag for HFT, but switched to 9 because with a 25 yards parallax setting I could still see the exact point of impact of my pellet as it hit a target at 45 yards (kill or plate). 10 mag was a little too blurry for this, but the point of impact is still identical (according to my paper targets).

I don't sell Lightstreams, nor am I sentimentally attached to the brand. However I do feel that they have been given a bit of a rough time by a few shooters, and this has led to others choosing not to give them a fair crack of the whip. Everyones eyes are different, and everyone wants something different from a scope, so you owe it to yourself to try as many as possible. Everyone thinks their kit is best, but with such a wide range of rifle and scope combos winning each week, everyone must be right!

[leedsonetwo]

My son has just ordered a DayState M4IS and we were looking for guidance as to the scope to go with it. We have now odered a Light Stream so thanks for the advice. We will let you know how we get on.

John