The best multishot air rifles? [Archive]

steveggg

24-02-2008, 05:03 PM

Can only comment on the AA410 and HW100 as have both.
The HW100 i find better as it there is no POI shift when changing from single to multi. The AA410 POI changes when swapping between the two.

Multi shots, due to not exactly aligning with the port/probe, can distort the pellet.

IOM

24-02-2008, 05:14 PM

400s are an option now with rowan mag and I cant detect any point of impact change between multi and single, lovely bit of kit that mag, and nothing to go wrong either ATB Hughie.:)

Raygun

24-02-2008, 05:25 PM

The best multi-shot rifle I've ever used is the HW100.

The single shot adaptor is also the best on the market.
ATB
Ray.

jax13

24-02-2008, 05:29 PM

i would add supertens, rapids and ultras to the list.

i have / presently owned all 3... mk1 rapid, 2 supertens both mk2 (1 carbine 1 BB rifle) and a fantastic ultra multi.

the problem here is to define BEST.......

ultra is the best because of the weight, length, volume, ease of use, ability to de-cock with a pellet in the breach, decent stock, fantastic price, good mags

superten is the best because its regged, loads of shots per fill, good mags, unfeasibly accurate, BB rifle was v quiet, well balanced in carbine form, good comfy stock,

rapid is the best because of its simplicity, shot count, accuracy, potential for FAC uprating and results when uprated, choice of 4 calibres and ability to change your rifle from one to the other at home, with ease (if thats your kind of thing!!)

ask 20 people what the best is and you'll get 20 different answers. usually, the best is the one that suits you and your situation the best!

verminhunter

24-02-2008, 05:29 PM

Best Mult-shot I've ever used is the Rapid MFR and Rapid MK2, "Dons" of the multi shot air-rifles.:)

Out of the lot you mentioned the HW100 would be my choice. ;)

Big Mat

24-02-2008, 05:31 PM

have to say like a couple of other people have that rapids are very good.

dont have one but have shot one or two and they were just so nice to shoot,

Gloworm

24-02-2008, 05:31 PM

The falcon ,of course!:)

Fluffybuck

24-02-2008, 05:32 PM

Has to be the HW100K. Having owned or used most of the above guns, the HW's are the only one's that haven't been sold.

mallyally

24-02-2008, 05:35 PM

dont overlook the bsa scorpion/t10 and i have had all the others (its an amazing gun for the money)

jay.t

24-02-2008, 05:36 PM

The Aa410 Seems To Be Massively Popular Of Late, Speaks Volumes Really, Wouldn't Swap My Rws500 For A Pot Of Gold Though

SharpShooter14

24-02-2008, 05:52 PM

The HW100 has a 14 shot whereas the S410 only has 10. Not that much of a difference though.
The single shot adaptor as said before is also very very good.

Gwylan

24-02-2008, 05:56 PM

I have an S410 and cannot fault it! I have never had it jam up or anything! The Hw100 is a very good multishot aswell though, the best thing is, you can never double load it - very handy if ou cant remember whether you have loaded you gun or not!

Being pedantic...:D:D:D a guy at the club managed to get 4 pellets stuck in his '100, the cylinder wasn't screwed up tight, and not enough air was getting into the reg. Not really the rifle's fault, though.

Gus

2spring

25-02-2008, 07:54 AM

Meerkat

25-02-2008, 08:01 AM

Interesting that this thread has gone half a day without even a mention of the Daystate Mk3

And I can say, from repeated experience, that I think I know why :rolleyes:.
(Insubstantial probe which goes off centre too easily, pellets jamming in the magazine, pellets being damaged by the magazine, pellets getting in the breech housing, pellets jamming the breech housing so that the bolt wont move, magazine almost too tight to fit, additional magazine (£40) too sloppy).

I think I might have to have a look at the HW100 :)

I've had a Mk3S and now have an Airwolf.

I have never had any of those things ever happen over the past 2 years and that's target shooting every Sunday with the single shot tray and hunting once/twice a week with the 10 shot magazine.

Wouldn't swap the Airwolf for any other gun.

Steve

essexjohn

25-02-2008, 09:14 AM

The Hw100 is a very good multishot aswell though, the best thing is, you can never double load it - very handy if ou cant remember whether you have loaded you gun or not!

Surely if you can't remember if you are holding a loaded gun or not, you shouldn't be shooting:confused:

2spring

25-02-2008, 09:25 AM

I've had a Mk3S and now have an Airwolf.

I have never had any of those things ever happen over the past 2 years and that's target shooting every Sunday with the single shot tray and hunting once/twice a week with the 10 shot magazine.

Wouldn't swap the Airwolf for any other gun.

Steve

(SUBSEQUENT EDITS IN CAPITALS)

Daystate have helped push air rifle development so far that they should receive the Queens Award for Industry and an export award. And, because they are leading the field with a small company (it is a lot easier with a big company) the directors should be given knighthoods and an estate each from the Dutchy of Cornwall. However, just because of this we, as Daystate customers or potential customers, should not loose our objectivity. That would not do Daystate any good. Or us.

The failure of the Mk3 loading system is not that every rifle fails. It is that IN MY OPINION a significant number fail. Just because yours didn't it does not mean that it is a good system. When I first took mine back I was told by the shop assistant that he had just had a customer in with a jammed gun and there had been 20 pellets jammed into the housing. The thing is, that every time someone mentions it on here you get people trying to brush it over.

Hellequin

25-02-2008, 09:38 AM

Daystate Mk3 Sport, or HW100K. I've owned and regretted selling the Mk3 and now own the HW100k... Not much to choose between the two in terms of performance. IMHO, obviously...:D:cool:

lucky trigger

25-02-2008, 09:52 AM

Ive previously owned the s410 in both .177 and .22 and a hw100 in .22. Personally i preffered the s410 as i never had a problem with either of the ones i owned they are also lighter and handier than the standard length hw. Must say that i thought the cocking system on the hw was excellent being very slick.
Personally and this is my opinion lol i wouldnt consider a standard Daystate mk3 for hunting my shooting buddy soon got rid of his after numerous indexing problems with the magazines and lamping it was just too heavy. He now has a Falcon pf25 which he is more than happy..

Rapidnick

25-02-2008, 09:52 AM

Surely if you can't remember if you are holding a loaded gun or not, you shouldn't be shooting:confused:

That is a little bit harsh John. A moment's distraction and it is possible however clever or diligent you are. The trick is NOT to assume you will never do it but to ensure that your safety procedure means that no harm can be done by forgetting.

Meerkat

25-02-2008, 02:40 PM

Daystate have helped push air rifle development so far that they should receive the Queens Award for Industry and an export award. And, because they are leading the field with a small company (it is a lot easier with a big company) the directors should be given knighthoods and an estate each from the Dutchy of Cornwall. However, just because of this we, as Daystate customers or potential customers, should not loose our objectivity. That would not do Daystate any good. Or us.

The failure of the Mk3 loading system is not that every rifle fails. It is that a significant number fail. Just because yours didn't it does not mean that it is a good system. When I first took mine back I was told by the shop assistant that he had just had a customer in with a jammed gun and there had been 20 pellets jammed into the housing. The thing is, that every time someone mentions it on here you get people trying to brush it over.

The pellet jamming in the housing was only on the .177, and there is a free fix from Daystate to sort it.

When you say "significant" can you give me the numbers please, like total numbers sold against each failure reported?

Steve

2spring

25-02-2008, 04:45 PM

The pellet jamming in the housing was only on the .177, and there is a free fix from Daystate to sort it.

When you say "significant" can you give me the numbers please, like total numbers sold against each failure reported?

Steve

IMO Daystate should not send out product with a known fault and then offer a known fix, FOC or otherwise. How long did it take them to keep the known fix for the known problem on the shelf? I recall seeing people complaining loudly on here about it and others suggesting that you should take your brand new Daystate and start putting bits of kunifer brake pipe in it - or always point the gun skyward when loading it.
Would it be too hard to re-design the problematical component, or at least incorporate the fix into all new guns?

I don't know how any independent source could produce the numbers of failed Daystate loading assy's. Please therefore consider my comments to be just my personal opinion based on posts I've read on here and on the comments I have heard and on my experience.

IMO Daystate is an excellent company offering excellent products, but with such excellence being marred by said loading system in the Mk3. Just my opinion :)

Rapidnick

25-02-2008, 04:51 PM

The pellet jamming in the housing was only on the .177, and there is a free fix from Daystate to sort it.

When you say "significant" can you give me the numbers please, like total numbers sold against each failure reported?

Steve

How can anyone outside Daystate possibly have access to this information?? I don't own a Mk 3 but when I did I didn't have any problems with it. However I know other shooters have experienced this so the point is a valid one to make on a thread like this. I remember very clearly a poor chap at the club shooting stand with pellets jammed in his new Mk 3 and Jon Budd spending time helping this fellow out. Very moving sight it was too.:eek:
The fact that Daystate's service is second to none does NOT invalidate the points made above and I think it is unreasonable of you to ask for such detailed proprietary information.

verminhunter

25-02-2008, 05:04 PM

Fluffybuck

25-02-2008, 05:06 PM

I was there too nikolas, remember, dont forget me too.:)

Nick said that it was a very moving sight. Perhaps he couldn't see you through the tears. :p

airgun god

25-02-2008, 05:14 PM

:i'm sad to say that i part x my mk2 rapid to fund a mk3 ftr biggest mistake i've made ( apart from the mrs that is ) :):):)

at least i've stil got me mk1 for hunting:):)

verminhunter

25-02-2008, 05:22 PM

Nick said that it was a very moving sight. Perhaps he couldn't see you through the tears. :p

Yes it was very moving, seeing a brand new daystate mk3 with that problem.....:D:D should have brought a rapid instead.:D

Rapidnick

25-02-2008, 05:49 PM

I was there too nikolas, remember, dont forget me too.:)

Sorry Costas so you were! And Lionel's photo album offers the proof.:eek

Meerkat

25-02-2008, 05:55 PM

How can anyone outside Daystate possibly have access to this information?? I don't own a Mk 3 but when I did I didn't have any problems with it. However I know other shooters have experienced this so the point is a valid one to make on a thread like this. I remember very clearly a poor chap at the club shooting stand with pellets jammed in his new Mk 3 and Jon Budd spending time helping this fellow out. Very moving sight it was too.:eek:
The fact that Daystate's service is second to none does NOT invalidate the points made above and I think it is unreasonable of you to ask for such detailed proprietary information.

It's absolutely not unreasonable for me to ask.

2spring used the phrase "It is that a significant number fail." so what data has he to back this up?

If he had said, "I know four occasions" or something similar fine, but if you don't have any hard facts, don't write something that makes it seem like you have.

I know of problems with Air Airms going rusty after weeks of ownership, but I'd never say the numbers were "significant" because I just don't know.

I know of problems with the HW100 going over 12ft lbs and having to be returned to Hull Cartridge due their anti-tamper device, but I'd never say the numbers were "significant" because I just don't know.

Oh, and by the way "or always point the gun skyward when loading it" will cause the pellet to go back in the breech housing, apart from being just a bit dangerous :rolleyes:

Steve

Fluffybuck

25-02-2008, 06:01 PM

It's absolutely not unreasonable for me to ask.

2spring used the phrase "It is that a significant number fail." so what data has he to back this up?

If he had said, "I know four occasions" or something similar fine, but if you don't have any hard facts, don't write something that makes it seem like you have.
I won't own Daystate's for hunting, because of hearing/seeing so many complaints about the magazine systems (complaints on the forums and people that I speak to or meet). Daystate's seem to be mainly focused on target guns, where a reliable multishot is not needed.

I know of problems with Air Airms going rusty after weeks of ownership, but I'd never say the numbers were "significant" because I just don't know.
Air Arms blueing can be poor. I have owned several and they all got rust very easily. :eek:

I know of problems with the HW100 going over 12ft lbs and having to be returned to Hull Cartridge due their anti-tamper device, but I'd never say the numbers were "significant" because I just don't know.
I have owned five HW100's. Four went hot - and mine are not the only one's. ;)

Steve
[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Fluffy
:)

jamie g

25-02-2008, 06:06 PM

mk2 stalker s10 for me lads. ive had rapid mk1 and 2 in 177 and 22. ive had a couple of s410k in 177. never tryed a hw100 or mk3 daystate. i mite have done but now i have fac i dont think i would buy anymore 12ftlb air rifles.
saying that if someone wants to give me a hw100 or mk3 i wont complain :D:cool:

Steyr

25-02-2008, 06:16 PM

The HW100 has a 14 shot whereas the S410 only has 10. Not that much of a difference though.
The single shot adaptor as said before is also very very good.

Hmm thats 4 shots more and you get 2 mags as std with an HW so really your talking 8 shots over two mags.

Also the HW mags are a lot cheaper and as they have no mechanism whatsoever, they wont crud up or fail like other internally cased rotary mag systems can.

The single shot adapter is unassailable and it does not shift POI. Much easier to load than the open trya and you dont get the pellet going in skirt first and a flick

Steyr

25-02-2008, 06:21 PM

Surely if you can't remember if you are holding a loaded gun or not, you shouldn't be shooting:confused:

So by using that argument, if you go out and forget to lock the front door you shouldnt have a house ??

maxi

25-02-2008, 06:37 PM

It has to be the mk2 Rapid for me having owned both .177 12ft/lb's and .22 FAC, it's perfect for hunting in my opinion cheers Maxi.:D

tomgriffin

25-02-2008, 06:53 PM

:i'm sad to say that i part x my mk2 rapid to fund a mk3 ftr biggest mistake i've made ( apart from the mrs that is ) :):):)

at least i've stil got me mk1 for hunting:):)

Just out of interest mate, but what was wrong with your MK3 FTR?......Was it the feel when shouldering the gun? or something like mag jams or more troublesome electrical faults?

The reason I ask is that I want a nice Target and hunting rifle and wanted your views :D

engraver

25-02-2008, 08:06 PM

ive never tried a mag in my mk3 as ive been told not to bother so i stick with sst but i will mention nobody has mentioned the old axsor 11years without a jam! very fast system for hunting and it doesnt squash pellets simple but effective my mate cant load his rapid mag as fast in a hurry

Rapidnick

25-02-2008, 08:19 PM

It's absolutely not unreasonable for me to ask.

2spring used the phrase "It is that a significant number fail." so what data has he to back this up?

If he had said, "I know four occasions" or something similar fine, but if you don't have any hard facts, don't write something that makes it seem like you have.

I know of problems with Air Airms going rusty after weeks of ownership, but I'd never say the numbers were "significant" because I just don't know.

I know of problems with the HW100 going over 12ft lbs and having to be returned to Hull Cartridge due their anti-tamper device, but I'd never say the numbers were "significant" because I just don't know.

Oh, and by the way "or always point the gun skyward when loading it" will cause the pellet to go back in the breech housing, apart from being just a bit dangerous :rolleyes:

Steve

It is unreasonable as this bbs is not a court of law. In our posts on here we deal with tendencies rather than absolutes. I accept that statements made on here may not stand up to rigorous legal scrutiny but 'we know what we mean' and asking for the sort of data you asked for is unreasonable unless you asked it of a representative of the company. Is this unfair? Probably yes. Is it even handed? Probably also yes. Will it continue? Certainly.

cinstone

26-02-2008, 12:10 AM

Well I can't fault my Air Arms S410, but from what I have read, the HW100 has a better trigger.

The one time I did try a HW100 was a few months ago with an F.A.C version & with it's extra long air cylinder it was a heavy rifle, far heavier than the S410. Seemed a good rifle though, but I think the S410 is an excellent rifle.

Chris.

Meerkat

26-02-2008, 06:50 AM

It is unreasonable as this bbs is not a court of law. In our posts on here we deal with tendencies rather than absolutes. I accept that statements made on here may not stand up to rigorous legal scrutiny but 'we know what we mean' and asking for the sort of data you asked for is unreasonable unless you asked it of a representative of the company. Is this unfair? Probably yes. Is it even handed? Probably also yes. Will it continue? Certainly.

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

If it's an opinion I think you should state it's an opinion. If it's fact, or you use the terminology of fact, at least have the data to back it up.

Otherwise it'd be OK for me to say that a significant number of BBS members think that Rapidnick is an idiot, which clearly it's not.

Even 2spring said "Please therefore consider my comments to be just my personal opinion based on posts I've read on here and on the comments I have heard and on my experience." which is totally acceptable.

Steve

essexjohn

26-02-2008, 07:13 AM

So by using that argument, if you go out and forget to lock the front door you shouldnt have a house ??

A somewhat pathetic response. If I forget to lock the front door the only person who's going to get hurt is me, and all I stand to lose are material posessions which can be replaced.

If I forget if my gun is loaded or not it could be very serious for someone else, so it's my responsibility to know EXACTLY the state of my gun at any time.

I'm actually surprised that anyone on this forum objects to my original statement.:rolleyes:

Rapidnick

26-02-2008, 07:21 AM

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

If it's an opinion I think you should state it's an opinion. If it's fact, or you use the terminology of fact, at least have the data to back it up.

Otherwise it'd be OK for me to say that a significant number of BBS members think that Rapidnick is an idiot, which clearly it's not.

Even 2spring said "Please therefore consider my comments to be just my personal opinion based on posts I've read on here and on the comments I have heard and on my experience." which is totally acceptable.

Steve

Steve I know what you mean but I think you are mixing up 2 different things. In strict logic you are correct. If you quote anything as a 'fact' you should at the very least be able to justify it by reference to data. However this is a special interest forum not a scientific community or a court of law!:eek: This in turn means that we say things without being able to justify them rigorously enough. This may offend you but it WILL continue. The way you asked for justification in the case of the Daystate assertion could only be answered by Daystate themselves. Surely you see and accept that point at least? If you don't then we are talking and writing in a different language.

verminhunter

26-02-2008, 07:27 AM

Surely you see and accept that point at least?[/B] If you don't then we are talking and writing in a different language.

Leave the man alone nikolas, stop behaving like a Barrister in court.:D:D

Steve C.

26-02-2008, 09:34 AM

I have an S410 and cannot fault it! I have never had it jam up or anything! The Hw100 is a very good multishot aswell though, the best thing is, you can never double load it - very handy if ou cant remember whether you have loaded you gun or not!

................... well er, yes you can if the cylinder hasn't been tightened up properly its possible to stack them up in the barrel.:eek:

ps it wasn't me but I witnessed this.

Steve C.

2spring

26-02-2008, 10:03 AM

Meerkat.

I think that the wording of my reply to your post might have inadvertently been a bit pointed, but, as Rapidnick says, this is a forum. I do try to put IMO (In My Opinion) where appropriate but it is difficult to be perfect and remember every time, especially if you are rushing a bit and just snatching a few minutes on the BBS.

If people had to speak only in "legalese" they just might not bother exchanging their ideas and thoughts. So I suppose we need a bit of give and take things with a pinch of salt. Given that this is a forum I think that it is self evident that blurring between opinion and fact is taken as read.
:D

Regarding the original point you made however, the point about the word "significant" . . . . . . . .

Why would Daystate produce a fix for a problem? Might it be taken as self evident that they would only do this if a significant number of Mk3 loading systems failed?

Or, would they do this if an insignificant number of Mk3 loading systems failed?

In my opinion, my opinion is . . . . . . . . .

Oh ########, I had better get back to work.
I'll keep smiling (the boss likes idiots).

ATB

Meerkat

26-02-2008, 11:36 AM

OK Rapidnick, "Surely you see and accept that point at least?"

Absolutely, which is why I asked the question, and 2springs response saying it was his personal opinion was spot on and accepted with the grace it was given.

"This may offend you but it WILL continue"

Doesn't mean it's right though does it? If you believe you can say anything you like on here without response then we are definitely talking and writing a different language. It's like me saying there is a significant problem with pitting in the Rapids barrel, you'd be on me like a ton of bricks!

I know full well what 2spring was saying, and I know Daystate had problems with the loading, which they fixed.

I hope, fervently, 2spring and myself both agree that Daystate had problems, it was just the wording was a bit too damning.

My first post was just saying how I had never had those problems with any of the Daystates I have had just to give some balance, it was the response to that got me going.

Anyway, I'm bored now, as I think 2spring is so let's just let the thread revert to it's proper subject shall we? I definitely am...

Steve