ukahft target question

[Lumberjack]

Hello Gents,

I'm sure this will be obvious to most and only needs clarification for the hard of understanding - like myself.

The ukahft course set up 2008 series states that some targets (with certain restrictions/conditions) can have up to "50% of the Hit zone" obscured.

I take it that "Hit zone" means face plate area and kill zone area?

So in theory you could cover 49% of the face plate AND 49% of the kill zone and still have legal target (providing you met any other relevant criteria).

Am I right or 'a meringue'

thanks gents

[biggles]

Be interested to see the definitive answer from those who REALLY know these things, but I had assumed that this referred specifically to obscuration (1st time I've had a chance to use that word today :)) of the KILL zone. However, if this guess is correct, does that mean there is otherwise NO restriction on the amount of the face plate which can be obscured?

Biggles

[ludders]

HFT is about recreating a situation out in the field (bunny bashing) so would you shoot a rabbit if you could only see his ears! no, so why hide a target?

[Lumberjack]

As the ukahft course set up says the emphasis is on "simulating hunting". Rabbits in long grass, squirrels in trees, rats in pipes, wilderbeast on the african plains etc. :)

I don't hunt but I would imagine that If a hunter is going for a humane head shot then not every rabbit or squirrel will present itself as an easy 100% percent visible target. Perhaps some hunters would wait for it to pop it's head up for a look-see, perhaps others would pass up the shot completely but some might be skilled and confident enough to take a partly obscured shot.

Perhaps that's the kind of thing the ukahft folks are trying simulate.

[simmmo]

I spoke to the mnagement earlier in the week/last few days about this very question. My take on the reply was basically a full size ie 40mm plus kill zone that is the hole through which the pellet can go to knock down the target can have 50% obscured. The question I asked was could the central 20mm be obscured leaving 10mm either side the answer I think was yes. However the obstruction must be substantial and ensure following shooters had no advantage from previous shooters who had shot through and destroyed any earlier obstruction.

Andy

[simmmo]

I spoke to the mnagement earlier in the week/last few days about this very question. My take on the reply was basically a full size ie 40mm plus kill zone that is the hole through which the pellet can go to knock down the target can have 50% obscured. The question I asked was could the central 20mm be obscured leaving 10mm either side the answer I think was yes. However the obstruction must be substantial and ensure following shooters had no advantage from previous shooters who had shot through and destroyed any earlier obstruction.

Andy

M'm I was wrong it has to be a full 20mm showing not 10mm either side.

Andy

[Lumberjack]

Cheers Andy.

I understand exactly what you mean. I had never thought of setting it up that way.

As far as the plate size/shape etc. is concerned I found a previous post from Sparky indicating that, within reason, you could have any size and shape of plate. "Within reason" seems to be the important part. So I'll just use a bit of common sense (that could be the really difficult part) :)

[Lou Martin]

for hit zone read kill zone a (it's PC thing)

[dia6olo]

HFT is about recreating a situation out in the field (bunny bashing) so would you shoot a rabbit if you could only see his ears! no, so why hide a target?

Well said ludders!!! if I hunted and I don't, and I couldn't see as much of my target as I'd like I'd either find another position or simply not take the shot!

If there's one thing that winds me up about HFT it's exactly that! That a target is partially obstructed! it's a ridiculous set up! It brings an element of luck into the shooting! AND YES I KNOW IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE!!! :cool:

Having said that even that's not true!!! Some shooters are shorter, some are taller, some are thin and some are not which in itself means some can see more than others in a natural position! I shoot mostly HFT but don't take it seriously because of exactly the above :rolleyes:

[AAS410]

Hello Gents,

I'm sure this will be obvious to most and only needs clarification for the hard of understanding - like myself.

The ukahft course set up 2008 series states that some targets (with certain restrictions/conditions) can have up to "50% of the Hit zone" obscured.

I take it that "Hit zone" means face plate area and kill zone area?

So in theory you could cover 49% of the face plate AND 49% of the kill zone and still have legal target (providing you met any other relevant criteria).

Am I right or 'a meringue'

thanks gents


Would that also mean a 40mm kill at 40 yards with 50% of the kill covered then turns into a 20mm kill would be out too far as the max a 20mm kill is 30 yds I think, Must be a Scottish thing.

GE:rolleyes:RGE

[Lumberjack]

Disnae bother me George. A canny hit them anyway. As you well know :D

If you cover 50% ie. exactly half of the hit zone then part would still be 40mm (the diameter) and part would be 20mm (the radius). Too complicated for me. Think I'll let Bill set them out :p;)

[poison dwarf]

I dont think HFT is meant to simulate hunting. It may have started out that way but when you introduce competition between competitors then there need to be rules. When hunting you have no hard and fast rules except your common sense and judgement.
If you obscure a 40mm killzone to 20mm then i would think the 20mm killzone rule would apply, 35 yards I do believe but dont quote me on that :)

[AAS410]

Disnae bother me George. A canny hit them anyway. As you well know :D

If you cover 50% ie. exactly half of the hit zone then part would still be 40mm (the diameter) and part would be 20mm (the radius). Too complicated for me. Think I'll let Bill set them out :p;)

Correct, but at some shoots its the wind thats the problem, (Davie K,) not distance, so that would then be a 20mm kill. I don't know. One for Pete I think? Plus you could cover it vertically or horizontal giving you a 20mm kill at 45 Yards. Or you could just use your tallent, and just set out the course, they were great in the past. See you Sunday. Still would be nice to know the answer, new excuse for this year.;)


Regards

GE:rolleyes:RGE

[AAS410]

Disnae bother me George. A canny hit them anyway. As you well know :D

If you cover 50% ie. exactly half of the hit zone then part would still be 40mm (the diameter) and part would be 20mm (the radius). Too complicated for me. Think I'll let Bill set them out :p;)

Did you know this one P, The trigger finger must be behind the firing line & peg when the shot is taken.

GE:confused:RGE

[Alegazmoz]

HFT is about recreating a situation out in the field (bunny bashing) so would you shoot a rabbit if you could only see his ears! no, so why hide a target?


Well said ludders!!! if I hunted and I don't, and I couldn't see as much of my target as I'd like I'd either find another position or simply not take the shot!

If there's one thing that winds me up about HFT it's exactly that! That a target is partially obstructed! it's a ridiculous set up! It brings an element of luck into the shooting! AND YES I KNOW IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE!!! :cool:

Having said that even that's not true!!! Some shooters are shorter, some are taller, some are thin and some are not which in itself means some can see more than others in a natural position! I shoot mostly HFT but don't take it seriously because of exactly the above :rolleyes:

Might I suggest an alternative definition.
HFT is a competitive shooting event, loosely based on hunting for vermin, combined with formal target shooting.
It is undertaken in areas where vermin are likely to be found, but may not be shot. Participants either have, or have not hunted at some point in their lives.
Using formal targets and rules of engagement, standardises the degree of difficulty and broadens the field of play nationally.
It is not intended to replicate the hunting scenario, nor is it a simulation of such.
It is merely a competitive event, for like-minded enthusiats, with rules. Open to safe shooters, who like to dress up at the weekend and do something different.
Any other interpretation is conjecture and purely individual, as is the degree of enthusiasm for the event.
That's why we have adopted rule 7 in our part of the world.

arf-tastic!
:D..:D..:D

[Gold]

AND RULE 7 IS............:confused:
I have seen it quoted before too so could you enlighten me please,
Atb
Cliff

[Mog]

......... who like to dress up at the weekend and do something different.
.

arf-tastic!
:D..:D..:D

That's your other hobby, isn't it Gary? :eek::D

[Alegazmoz]

AND RULE 7 IS............:confused:
I have seen it quoted before too so could you enlighten me please,
Atb
Cliff

Certainly dear fellow, here's a Florence Nightingale moment ...........


Abandon hope, should you come here,
Rule number 7 is very clear,
You may not whinge, or whine, or moan,
For if you will, then stay at home.




That's your other hobby, isn't it Gary? :eek::D

More a compulsion Charles ........
........... one you've been willing to share on more than the odd occasion ..........

arf!
:D

[Gold]

Thank you :D

[simmmo]

Did you know this one P, The trigger finger must be behind the firing line & peg when the shot is taken.

GE:confused:RGE

I didn't but I do now, that puts a different slant on course set up and also marshalling especially on shots where stretching from the peg may be advantagous. It is easy to see the line but the peg is a different matter. Thinking back to Bisley a couple of weeks ago(Iknow the target was pulled anyway), but no.2 was a stander with a peg well back from the firing line and the tree well forward of the post. Most people I watched lent on the tree and automatically stretched forward past the peg. This would/should therefore not be allowed, interesting. Makes setting unsupported targets easier.

Andy

[Mog]

Did you know this one P, The trigger finger must be behind the firing line & peg when the shot is taken.

GE:confused:RGE


I didn't but I do now, that puts a different slant on course set up and also marshalling especially on shots where stretching from the peg may be advantagous. It is easy to see the line but the peg is a different matter. Thinking back to Bisley a couple of weeks ago(Iknow the target was pulled anyway), but no.2 was a stander with a peg well back from the firing line and the tree well forward of the post. Most people I watched lent on the tree and automatically stretched forward past the peg. This would/should therefore not be allowed, interesting. Makes setting unsupported targets easier.

Andy

Looking at the UKAHFT rules section, all photos show the peg as being on the firing line, though as far as I can see this is not mentioned in the rules. If the peg has to be on the firing line then there's no problem with the trigger being behind both. No mention is made about whether the trigger has to be behind a plate rather then a peg.

[Alegazmoz]

I didn't but I do now, that puts a different slant on course set up and also marshalling especially on shots where stretching from the peg may be advantagous. It is easy to see the line but the peg is a different matter. Thinking back to Bisley a couple of weeks ago(Iknow the target was pulled anyway), but no.2 was a stander with a peg well back from the firing line and the tree well forward of the post. Most people I watched lent on the tree and automatically stretched forward past the peg. This would/should therefore not be allowed, interesting. Makes setting unsupported targets easier.

Andy

"Plate shots must only use 35-45mm hit zones & be a maximum of 6ft off the ground, some part of the shooters body must be in contact with the plate when taking the shot."

The above is a quote directly from the UKAHFT rules and would eliminate the regard for the peg and focus solely on the firing line, therefore permitting the stretching scenario.
As novices, Bisley should have been spared the minority criticism of their course and it taken with the good grace with which it was set out. Sadly, when the rules are quoted verbatim, all else goes out the window. They should have chucked the peg and painted the number on the tree. It would also have been a yard closer.
My opinion is, once scrutinized by the organisers, apart from mechanical failure, rule 7 should be invoked.
If a target doesn't fall for me, I make the presumption that I've missed/mis-ranged and move on.

arf!
:D

[Charlts]

I didn't but I do now, that puts a different slant on course set up and also marshalling especially on shots where stretching from the peg may be advantagous. It is easy to see the line but the peg is a different matter. Thinking back to Bisley a couple of weeks ago(Iknow the target was pulled anyway), but no.2 was a stander with a peg well back from the firing line and the tree well forward of the post. Most people I watched lent on the tree and automatically stretched forward past the peg. This would/should therefore not be allowed, interesting. Makes setting unsupported targets easier.

Andy

Sorry Andy but to me that was dangerous, those who took it free standing were well back from the firing line, highly unlikely but if there's a gap people can walk through it! It's the same with not clearing branches and other crap from between the peg and target, it then becomes a test of shooting luck instead of skill, as well as increasing the chance of a richochet. Once the braches have been shot away it's not the same shot anymore and the later luckier ones have a nice clear path.

Ryan

[mattinlondon]

The last 2 posts are both spot on!!!

[sparky]

We brought in last year and this was sent to all hosting UKAHFT clubs and affiliated clubs

Also as it does cause some confusion with the supported standers and kneelers, can you use the object (tree/fence/hay bail etc) as the peg not put an actual peg in the ground, plus this helps with juniors and left or right handers

Pete

[simmmo]

We brought in last year and this was sent to all hosting UKAHFT clubs and affiliated clubs. OK Guilty

Also as it does cause some confusion with the supported standers and kneelers, can you use the object (tree/fence/hay bail etc) as the peg not put an actual peg in the ground, plus this helps with juniors and left or right handers Ok but it will probably cut down on the whingeing but I suppose you cannot have everything

Pete

Cheers Andy.