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View Full Version : Please define bear-trap, and anti-b.t.



VictorLouis
04-06-2004, 04:44 AM
Beartrap:
As near as I can figure, this is the "feature" whereby the breech will slam shut if you were to inadvertantly pull the trigger before closing the cocking lever.


Anti-beartrap:
Some sort of secondary device which prevents this?

Does a gun really have to have the latter? I mean if one hand is inserting the pellet, and the other is holding the forearm, or the cocking lever, how's is this even a concern?

If possible, please list some popular guns which display either characteristic.

Thanks!

rockdrill
04-06-2004, 06:52 AM
Re: Anti-beartrap - provided you use a safe method of loading a rifle, particularyly those with a sliding breech (HW77 etc) i.e. keeping hold of the lever while inserting the pellet, then such a device is not needed.
However human nature being what it is, invariably you will find people who handles these kind of guns in a more casual manner who would then get upset if the unfortunate event of having a piece of their thumb or finger removed happens.

With the current culture of litigation in both UK and US, whereby people feel the need to sue someone else for acts that are largely attributable to their own stupidity, the manufacturers take all reasonable steps to ensure that they don't get sued.

The anti-bearttrap on the HW77/97 lies on the underside of the action and blocks the trigger sear from moving while the lever is not locked into the firng position. It is a pretty reliable system but does prevent you from de-cocking the rifle.

The Air Arms TX200 and HC from the Mk2 onwards feature a side mounted ratchet that requires to be manually disengaged to return the underlever to the shooting position. The beauty of this system is it allows the rifle to be decocked. It is potentially a little noisy in operation, but it can ba manually over-ridden during the cocking stroke but left safely engaged for loading.

The RWS/Diana Mod 52 and derivatives feature a simple manual ratchet to prevent an accident.

IIRC the Gamo rifles are fitted with anti-beartraps that cannot be over-ridden.

Hope that helps.

Ray J
04-06-2004, 09:06 AM
Then the BSA Superstar avoides the need, with its - rotating breech - loading port.;)

Ray:cool:

VictorLouis
04-06-2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by rockdrill
.. i.e. keeping hold of the lever while inserting the pellet, then such a device is not needed.
Ok, I'm able to leave my break-barrel "dangle" while holding the weight of the gun in one hand, and inserting the pellet with the other hand. I guess what I'm asking is this. For underlevers, is that a safe practice as long as I'm nowhere near the trigger?


The anti-bearttrap on the HW77/97 lies on the underside of the action and blocks the trigger sear from moving while the lever is not locked into the firng position. It is a pretty reliable system but does prevent you from de-cocking the rifle.
That implies an answer to my question above, but I just want to make sure.:) What would be the need for de-cocking a rifle? I have to figure it's not a generally safe practice to leave a pellet in the breach for any reason. Please don't perceive that as being flippant, I'm just trying to understand.


The Air Arms TX200 and HC from the Mk2 onwards feature a side mounted ratchet that requires to be manually disengaged to return the underlever to the shooting position.
So, here again, the lever "dangles" whilst carrying out the loading?


The beauty of this system is it allows the rifle to be decocked.

So, you would depress the release,
pull down the cocking lever to restrain the sear,
release the safety,
pull the trigger,
and then "ride" the spring forward by maintaining resistance on the lever?

OH, and I can't seem to FIND A SUPERSTAR in the U.S. If anyone knows of a dealer in the states with one on hand, please let me know.:D

Paul Hudson
04-06-2004, 08:55 PM
It's NOT a good idea to let either a barrel (on a break-barrel) or an underlever "dangle"!

Keep a firm grip on either the barrel or the lever with one hand while loading with the other. Tucking the stock under your arm or into the top of your inner thigh helps.

Anti-bear traps are mechanical devices and they CAN fail. Even if you don't lose part of your thumb or a finger, being smacked in the forehead by a length of steel pipe is no fun. At the least you can end up with a bent barrel. I've even seen stocks cracked when the barrel has slammed shut.

Stay safe.

Paul.

moltenmetal
04-06-2004, 08:58 PM
in my opinion never leave the fate of thumb or finger to anti beartrap always hold the cocking leaver whilst loading the bear trap is only a secondary safty device:)

delta1
04-06-2004, 09:05 PM
Heres a link to a previous thread describing what can go wrong.
<click> (http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?threadid=20625&highlight=snapped+stock)

The picture is on our clubroom wall as a reminder.

Richard

VictorLouis
04-06-2004, 11:40 PM
Paul, Molten and Delta....thank you all. Delta that link was ESPECIALLY enlightening!:eek:

Some other gent explained in that thread his technique for a springer, which I see no reason won't work for an underlever also. I can't recall stumbling across this vital basic in perusing other info. :confused:

I see now that I most definitely need another trip down to my local dealer for some more hands-on. Being in sales myself, I'm loathe to take up someone's time needlessly, so maybe I'll bring bagels and coffee.:D

roblade
06-06-2004, 09:12 PM
bear trap: two serated pices of metal sping loaded to snap and trap things between the jaws namely paws (very bad for bears :()

anti bear trap: bear with a big stick :D

now please dont shoot me, i already said im sorry, i really couldnt help. it its been a long day at the club feet hurt, brain hurts and i thought this was sooo funny, guess i just have a warped welsh mind LOL so :p to all those who dont :)

Supermick
06-06-2004, 09:22 PM
Regardless of whether or not an anti-beartrap is fitted, it is sound practice to hold the barrel/underlever down with one hand whilst feeding the pellet in with the other. The best technique is to hold the butt into the groin while you're loading it. That makes it stable.
TD once told about an experiment that the magazine guys did with a pigs trotter and a '77 I believe. Gruesome stuff.

It's part of most clubs safety policy that one hand should always be on the barrel/underlever.

Mick

No pigs were harmed during the writing of this....

Steyr
07-06-2004, 12:31 AM
Completely agree - it doesn't matter what is fitted on the inside - you hold onto that barrel or lever and you dont let go till your digits are withdrawn in one peice.

We are talking a lot of stored energy here. OK we have the strength to cock the rifle, but how many of you can stop that release of energy half way through its return to its untensioned state..I don't think so.

There is no excuse for doing this bit right - and if you see it being done wrong - do them a favour and tell them. and you will be doing them a favour so please DO TELL THEM

rockdrill
07-06-2004, 07:11 AM
Hi VictorLouis,

Re my original post on anti bear-traps, I should have said that you should retain a firm grip on the barrel or lever when loading a spring or gas ram rifle while keeping the butt firmly braced into your hip.

The slight exception to this rule lies with rifles that require a separate loading operation after cocking i.e. tap loaders, rotary breech (BSA Superstar), flip up breech (Webley Eclipse), pop up breeches (HW57 etc) and magazine loaders such as the Theoben SLR88/98 and BSA Goldstar, as with these rifles the lever is used to cock the action then immediately returned to the "parked position".

As far as decocking rifles goes I personally like the ability to render the rifle safe in the field without the need to fire it, also I find this ability useful when working on rifles.