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View Full Version : Valuation please, Feinwerkbau FWB 124



Nige
30-11-2009, 01:53 PM
Due to me not using the gun any more, I am considering offering it for sale, depending on valuation.
It is (I think) a 1978 Mk 1 model, number 29150. The condition I can only describe as immaculate. The blueing is 100% original, the woodwork has only the tiniest of dinks on it which you have to look for, it has a plastic trigger.
I bought this rifle about 5 years ago from a collector who had bought it new and NEVER fired it. As you can imagine, I paid a premium price for a gun that could have only been described as brand new.
It has the original front and rear sights which I removed due to mounting a scope for competition work, it is also fitted with sling swivels.
When I came to cock and fire it, I noticed a squeaking sound coming from the piston seal so, I removed the still brand new spring and changed everything for a Macarri Old School kit which is in the gun now, I still have the original spring.
I have entered many local competitions for springers using this gun and won most of them. I actually bought a Weirauch HW98 competition target rifle to see if I could better my scores, but sold it when I realised the FWB was a better and more accurate rifle!!
Now the bad bit :o
Either Royal Mail or the Spanish Correos thought fit to drop the parcel on it's end during transit when I first bought the rifle. This resulted in the 2 little 'Wings' on the safety catch breaking off as the gun was disassembled for transit. This in no way affects the workings of the gun but it affects the cosmetic appearance if you look close enough. A new safety catch shouldn't be hard to find though to get the gun back to a collectors item.

Pic here (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1241/4157929/8796768/354894429.jpg)

More (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1241/4157929/8796768/353417086.jpg)

More (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1241/4157929/8796768/353417085.jpg)

Yet more (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1241/4157929/8796768/353417084.jpg)

Nearly there (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1241/4157929/8796768/353417080.jpg)

And finally (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1241/4157929/8796768/353417078.jpg)

The rifle will be complete with the leather sling and I'll include a black padded bag. Fitted on the gun at the moment is a Gamo 4 - 12 x 44AOE shock resistant scope which I found to be the best for 30 yards target shooting at a 10mm bull. I would like a valuation for the gun on it's own and another for the complete set up with scope and a quality one piece mount.

Thanks
Nige :)

I. J.
30-11-2009, 02:05 PM
This rifle has the rarer 'wrap round' front sight element. I also recently bought a safety slide off this very site as a spare as they are so easily damaged for 12. ;)

These rifles are VERY sought after and rare in this condition. I.M.O I would place this combination in the 300+ area.

HTH
Ian :)

Nige
30-11-2009, 02:13 PM
Thank you Ian,
Your valuation is about what I expected in the currant climate ;) So I think I'll check it over and get it up on the for sale board as soon as I've done this.
Now I'm back in England I seem to have less time for shooting, ah well.
Thanks again
Nige :)

I. J.
30-11-2009, 03:59 PM
Your very welcome. :)

Good luck with the sale of what I consider to be one of the best, if not THE best, break barrel air rifle ever produced.

ATB
Ian :D

richywilk
30-11-2009, 04:14 PM
Here Here

Muskett
30-11-2009, 05:07 PM
I would sell the scope and mounts separately as they don't really add anything to the package. It is not mint in box but a really nice desirable example with the plastic trigger, the nicest looking foresight, and original spring. The Maccari innards is a bonus for those who like shooting their collectables. Its also in my favorite calibre and most accurate especially in a Sport.

Valuation for rifle 300, as they are in fashion and a Macarri kit is 70. The scope for 60% of what you paid. There are still a good few Sports out there but fewer and fewer in good condition, so the valuation shows the premium as at almost twice the price of an average used one.

I'm sorely tempted but have one mint and two to shoot. There is a limit. I wouldn't sell it as you just won't get anything nicer to shoot in a springer. The early ones seem to shoot exceptionally tight groups.

fairgunner
30-11-2009, 07:37 PM
I have several FWB MK1's 124 & 127's, I'm not so sure as to your date of 1978 though, I have for example, a mint 127 serial No 25552 which was bought new in London in 1980 by BBS member abewilson from whom I bought the rifle from 2.5 years ago.

The rifle also clearly has a MK11 stock on it and I have never seen a mk1 with a wrap around foresight before ?

You mention 'Spanish Correos' So I can only assume it was imported from Spain, perhaps guns sent there originaly where configured diferently?

Not certain how someone could put a value on it of 300 when I only paid 260 for a Genuine 'Mint' mk1.

Hope this helps rather than confuses:)

Hsing-ee
30-11-2009, 07:47 PM
Garvin's got a rare Feinwerkbau Sport 121, almost unused, in similar condition for sale at the moment and it is 220.

It is the same as the 124 but with the low power German home market spring, a plain stock and no sling swivels.

300 might be a little too much for the rifle you describe, but there is only one way to find out what the market will stand....

I. J.
30-11-2009, 08:09 PM
Garvin's got a rare Feinwerkbau Sport 121, almost unused, in similar condition for sale at the moment and it is 220.

It is the same as the 124 but with the low power German home market spring, a plain stock and no sling swivels.

300 might be a little too much for the rifle you describe, but there is only one way to find out what the market will stand....

If they cant afford cake let them eat bread.

The 121 is rarer but a base model and this UK market, 124 comes with a decent scope and mounts AND open sights. :p
Like you say - the only way to find its true value is offer it for sale. :D

ATB
Ian :)

mallyally
30-11-2009, 08:18 PM
I have several FWB MK1's 124 & 127's, I'm not so sure as to your date of 1978 though, I have for example, a mint 127 serial No 25552 which was bought new in London in 1980 by BBS member abewilson from whom I bought the rifle from 2.5 years ago.

The rifle also clearly has a MK11 stock on it and I have never seen a mk1 with a wrap around foresight before ?

You mention 'Spanish Correos' So I can only assume it was imported from Spain, perhaps guns sent there originaly where configured diferently?

Not certain how someone could put a value on it of 300 when I only paid 260 for a Genuine 'Mint' mk1.

Hope this helps rather than confuses:)

its definitely a mk 1 but the really early ones had plastic but plates ;)
i paid 150 for a MINTER myself BUT wouldnt sell it for that :p
and they are fashionable just now :)

Muskett
30-11-2009, 08:37 PM
Thats 230 for the rifle and 70 for the Maccari innards making 300. Which is a fair price for a great rifle. Compared to what you can get new, that's not bad value. You can always bring the price down. Gun values have all gone up 20% in the last year if anyone hadn't noticed.

In Europe 121's are much more common and just not as good looking as deluxe.

I think it is a MKII because its the one I first had in circa 1980/81, and the foresight after the MKI's basic looking thing, plastic trigger or not. Its the British who pushed the MKI/II//III thing and Europeans wouldn't have cared a bit.

mallyally
30-11-2009, 09:00 PM
Thats 230 for the rifle and 70 for the Maccari innards making 300. Which is a fair price for a great rifle. Compared to what you can get new, that's not bad value. You can always bring the price down. Gun values have all gone up 20% in the last year if anyone hadn't noticed.

In Europe 121's are much more common and just not as good looking as deluxe.

I think it is a MKII because its the one I first had in circa 1980/81, and the foresight after the MKI's basic looking thing, plastic trigger or not. Its the British who pushed the MKI/II//III thing and Europeans wouldn't have cared a bit.

if it was a Mk 2 it would say on it ;) only the Mk1s dont have the Mk stamped on them :)

I. J.
30-11-2009, 09:02 PM
Not certain how someone could put a value on it of 300 when I only paid 260 for a Genuine 'Mint' mk1.


How long ago? :rolleyes: :D
Oh, and I did highlight it as a value on the combination (4-12 Gammo scope & mounts).

ATB
Ian :D

Muskett
30-11-2009, 09:19 PM
All bar in name then ;) First good rifle I had.

red bob
30-11-2009, 09:23 PM
lovely example,and you wont be surprised that in my opinion its priceless,but in the real and cold world of market value i would expect 250[rifle only] if you actualy want to sell it in the fairly near future.

Hsing-ee
30-11-2009, 09:28 PM
lovely example,and you wont be surprised that in my opinion its priceless,but in the real and cold world of market value i would expect 250[rifle only] if you actualy want to sell it in the fairly near future.

I think so too. V-Mach kits and Maccari kits, while they are brilliant things, don't add to the value of a rifle in my experience, everyone wanting them 'virgin' so they can have their own way with them :rolleyes:.

mallyally
30-11-2009, 09:32 PM
I think so too. V-Mach kits and Maccari kits, while they are brilliant things, don't add to the value of a rifle in my experience, everyone wanting them 'virgin' so they can have their own way with them :rolleyes:.

correct
bit like putting a better radio in your car and expecting its value to increase ;) you only do these things for yourself while you own it :cool:

fairgunner
30-11-2009, 09:35 PM
if it was a Mk 2 it would say on it ;) only the Mk1s dont have the Mk stamped on them :)

First time I've ever heard of that - I must check all eight of mine (Different Mk's) again, maybe over the last 28 years since the mk2 was introduced and I first purchased one, I mist this identification, despite having them apart countless times for cleaning/maintenance over the years :rolleyes:

Also the MK2's stock was made from a much cheaper piece of beech, the chequering was machine cut & part finished by hand, the pistol grip & cheekpiece were less defined and my first one - the stock split in two at the pistol grip after only a few months

mallyally
30-11-2009, 09:40 PM
First time I've ever heard of that - I must check all eight of mine (Different Mk's) again, maybe over the last 28 years since the mk2 was introduced and I first purchased one, I mist this identification, despite having them apart countless times for cleaning/maintenance over the years :rolleyes:

Also the MK2's stock was made from a much cheaper piece of beech, the chequering was machine cut & part finished by hand, the pistol grip & cheekpiece were less defined and my first one - the stock split in two at the pistol grip after only a few months

some mk 2s had the same stock as the mk1 ;)
its stamped on the breech block :)

fairgunner
30-11-2009, 09:41 PM
I think so too. V-Mach kits and Maccari kits, while they are brilliant things, don't add to the value of a rifle in my experience, everyone wanting them 'virgin' so they can have their own way with them :rolleyes:.

Here Here:)

red bob
30-11-2009, 09:57 PM
while in a local gun shop the owner who knows my happy obsession with everything fwb said have a look at this model 127 thats come in with the useual fail in that the piston had shattered what took my interest was lts no frills appearence in a dark wood ,she was totaly unmarked and very well looked after and maintained late 1980s?,i very quickly checked to see if she was up for sale but the owner when confronted with a 400 price for a new quality spring rifle retreated to a rebuild of this icon of spring technology .im still in two minds as to owning more than one 124/127;having say 5 or 6 as one or two conasseurshere have would leave me nonplussedas to which to take out first as they are all clawing at me with similer appeal.

fairgunner
30-11-2009, 10:07 PM
some mk 2s had the same stock as the mk1 ;)
its stamped on the breech block :)

'some mk 2s had the same stock as the mk1': Never heard that one before

'its stamped on the breech block': Not on the 3 MK2's I've got its not.

May I ask: are you a friend or relative of Matt from Muxton??:)

mallyally
30-11-2009, 10:11 PM
'some mk 2s had the same stock as the mk1': Never heard that one before

'its stamped on the breech block': Not on the 3 MK2's I've got its not.

May I ask: are you a friend or relative of Matt from Muxton??:)

what makes you think they are mk2s :confused:
every mk2 i have seen has mk2 stamped under
feinwerkbau oberndor / on the breech block ;)
and no relation :p:)
ps
now i understand how you got mixed up about the mk of stock on nige's

Hsing-ee
30-11-2009, 10:11 PM
's

May I ask: are you a friend or relative of Matt from Muxton??:)

Why, has he got 'Mk 2' stamped on his 'breech block'?

I've also heard that some metal-triggered Mk 2s have got thin-handed Mk 1 stocks but it might be a big fekkin LIE, ask Garvin he usually knows about transition types and the like.

Garvin
30-11-2009, 10:25 PM
A few comments:

On the valuation I agree with 250 for the rifle/300 for the combo general ballpark at the prices these things seem to be selling for at the moment. A year ago it might have been 50 less and a year before that maybe another 30 less again!

My 121 sold shortly after I put an ad in the sales section this evening.

I've seen Sports that I'm pretty sure from the serial numbers must have been Mk2s but didn't have the "Series Mk II" stamp on the breech.

121s are certainly more common in Europe than in the UK but only two have come up for sale on egun in the last four years, one of which sold tonight. Very few were made, relative to the 124/127 models.

The wraparound front sights are much less common than the dovetail type but several have appeared on the BBS/other forums in recent years, some of them UK imports.

I've never quite worked out which Mk had which stock - I've seen so many contradictions that I'm a bit skeptical there's a precise stock type per model.

The 1978 date for serial no 28xxx does sound slightly early. Did this date come from FWB itself Nige? I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that UK dealers sometimes sold guns new which were made several years earlier. Not sure why, maybe because they were imported in batches and distribution to the end user took quite a while? I bought a 30xxx serial 127 brand new in 1982....

I think it's brilliant that so many people rate the Sports highly and that there's far more to them than just nostalgia or the famous FWB brand. Despite various faults, their lightness/build quality/power/ease of cocking/tuneability/accuracy etc make them great fun to own and shoot today. :)

I. J.
30-11-2009, 10:59 PM
The wraparound front sights are much less common than the dovetail type but several have appeared on the BBS/other forums in recent years, some of them UK imports.

I've never quite worked out which Mk had which stock - I've seen so many contradictions that I'm a bit skeptical there's a precise stock type per model.

The 1978 date for serial no 28xxx does sound slightly early. Did this date come from FWB itself Nige? I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that UK dealers sometimes sold guns new which were made several years earlier. Not sure why, maybe because they were imported in batches and distribution to the end user took quite a while? I bought a 30xxx serial 127 brand new in 1982....

I think it's brilliant that so many people rate the Sports highly and that there's far more to them than just nostalgia or the famous FWB brand. Despite various faults, their lightness/build quality/power/ease of cocking/tuneability/accuracy etc make them great fun to own and shoot today. :)

Agreed.

Its a well known fact that the left hand stocks (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v485/Airsniper/?action=view&current=FWB.jpg) are the ones to go for. ;)

ATB
Ian :)

nice one
01-12-2009, 07:07 AM
personally i had one of these as a kid it was an average OK, nothing to get excited about but then when recharged came out WOW now your talking ,i value these no more than 100 but then as only childhood memories...

OLD JUD
01-12-2009, 07:47 AM
personally i had one of these as a kid it was an average OK, nothing to get excited about but then when recharged came out WOW now your talking,i value these no more than 100 but then as only childhood memories...


Thats the approx NEW price in the late 70's/early 80's, going off that logic the next time a mint Sharp Innova comes on the board it should be no more than 55!

This FWB 124 has got to be worth between 180 - 230, the combo 220 -270.

However if the seller puts the rifle up for 100 i'll wager that it's sold within five minutes!:D

Airsporter1st
01-12-2009, 08:28 AM
personally i had one of these as a kid it was an average OK, nothing to get excited about but then when recharged came out WOW now your talking ,i value these no more than 100 but then as only childhood memories...

An interesting point - I was talking to a reputable airgun dealer recently who held exactly the same opinion.

The prices on some guns have perhaps been driven up by the BBS hype. We all like to think that the guns we own are worth more.. (and that th eones we want are worth less:p)

However, anything is worth exactly what someone is prepared to pay for it and a reasonably good complete FWB 124/127 is likely to sell for around 250 on here, judging by recent sales history..

I. J.
01-12-2009, 09:15 AM
However if the seller puts the rifle up for 100 i'll wager that it's sold within five minutes!:D

I bet even short armed long pocketed MALLY would snap at that one. If it was a leftie I'd have a go. :D

ATB
Ian :)

Nige
01-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Thanks for all the info and suggestions lads :)
I've already had several offers to buy via PM and to clarify things..
I bought the rifle from a collector in England, Portsmouth to be exact, so it's not a European rifle as such, I simply had it delivered to my house in Spain :)
Apart from the usual marks, there is definitely no Mk1, Mk11 or any other mark on the breech or anywhere else, I have lost the info somewhere, but shortly after I bought it, I contacted Feinwerkbau with the serial number and was informed that it was a Mk1 from the late 70's, probably 1978, but this cannot be guaranteed or even verified I don't suppose, even so, the rifle is in superb condition and you only have to cock and fire it to tell the quality. :p

Cheers
Nige

nice one
01-12-2009, 06:11 PM
ok they maybe worth what people are prepared to pay but if most had the chose between precharged and a OK antiquated springer i doubt you would get a Penny for it .

steveyb
01-12-2009, 06:19 PM
Each to his own I have pre charged and springers and my fav gun is my FWB sport 127 like a swiss watch:)

OLD JUD
01-12-2009, 06:19 PM
ok they maybe worth what people are prepared to pay but if most had the chose between precharged and a OK antiquated springer i doubt you would get a Penny for it .

First and formost this is a valuation thread mate, the OP wants advice on the value of his gun, not negative comments.

The board members do have a free choice between PCP's and springers, and this one is one of the very best, therefore it won't be around for long once the OP has put a price on it.

mallyally
01-12-2009, 06:32 PM
I bet even short armed long pocketed MALLY would snap at that one. If it was a leftie I'd have a go. :D

ATB
Ian :)
100 like to see a few come allong at that price ;)

ken69
01-12-2009, 07:01 PM
The rifle on it's own has got to be worth at least 250, probably more if someone wants it bad enough. I have 3 FWB's and even with all the little faults consider them to be the best springers I have ever owned. They stand head and shoulders above the likes of anything BSA could offer at the time. I seem to remember a FWB sport stock going on evil bay for 150 not long back.

red bob
01-12-2009, 08:11 PM
i have always been of the opinion that every man has the right to pick and choose according to his taste ,but one cant help but notice how some find it neccesary when confronted by an overwhelming body of appreciation [124/127] have to get negative interesting to note the praise for the fwb did not include negativity towards other marks/models ;this i conclude gives an indication of the maturity of the typical fwb owner of which body im pleased to be a member.

mallyally
01-12-2009, 08:15 PM
i have always been of the opinion that every man has the right to pick and choose according to his taste ,but one cant help but notice how some find it neccesary when confronted by an overwhelming body of appreciation [124/127] have to get negative interesting to note the praise for the fwb did not include negativity towards other marks/models ;this i conclude gives an indication of the maturity of the typical fwb owner of which body im pleased to be a member.

AMEN to that brother ;)

Hsing-ee
02-12-2009, 09:36 AM
ok they maybe worth what people are prepared to pay but if most had the chose between precharged and a OK antiquated springer i doubt you would get a Penny for it .

I sold my PCP and bought two Feinwerkbau Sports. True, it takes more skill to shoot the Sport accurately, but then I don't have to keep a diving cylinder in the flat/car-boot, and it is just less trouble to maintain and own.

Perhaps your childhood memories are influenced by the fact that they are those of a child, i.e. someone with no experience or discernment.

I am sure if you were to handle and use a Feinwerkbau Sport now, with the improved modern pellets, you would recognise what a fine example of the gunmaker's art it is.

If you were to strip one down you would appreciate that the barrel is perfectly rifled, and no suprise here as it is the same one that graces the FWB300, the Olympic match rifle. And you would see the precision-bored cylinder which has been honed to perfection. And the elegant piston that Bonnie & Clyde says is so well made it does not need a rear PTFE bearing.

It is very light for a full power spring gun, only 7lbs, and the cocking pressure is half that of Weihrauchs of similar power. The balance is perfect and it is easily shouldered and brought to aim, making it a pleasure to shoot.

True, there are some faults with the rifle, but these are treatable and minor in nature, most rifles need some tweaking to perfect them.

If a 'mint' or superb condition one comes up for sale for say, 250, then a sensible person might look at what is available in terms of modern offerings. The Weihrauch 99S is slightly cheaper and the Weihrauch 95K is slightly more expensive. They are excellent guns but both are heavier and harder to cock than the FWB. Of course they have the superb Rekord trigger, but many people would still prefer to spend their cash on the FWB in preference to the HWs as it is such a classy little rifle. PCPs don't enter into it.

A decent break-barrel springer is less troublesome and far less expensive than a PCP. A PCP made to the same spec as a FWB Sport would cost at least 400, then there is another 150 for the tank, tenner a fill for the air, yearly maintenance bills for the gun to keep it safe, and all the fun of filling and power-curves to enjoy. The Sport, once it is set up, will shoot consistently with superb accuracy for tens of thousands of shots with nothing more than a little oil on the breech-bolt and breech latch. It's a piece of excellent engineering which would cost about 350 if it was on sale now. And that's why people will pay over the odds for them.

What can one buy for 100 new? A poor-quality Chinese rifle or a cheap CO2 gun. A second-hand Feinwerkbau Sport is in a different league to them, and worth alot more.

I. J.
02-12-2009, 09:42 AM
I love this section of the BBS. 39 posts and not one 'you knob head' type comment. :D

ATB
Ian :D

Garvin
02-12-2009, 10:15 AM
I love this section of the BBS. 39 posts and not one 'you knob head' type comment. :D

ATB
Ian :DYou clearly haven't been reading between the lines Ian. :D

Great post from Hsing-ee. I didn't know Dave B&C had said that about the piston. Interesting, Steve Pope told me he was doubtful about the value of buttoning the FWB Sports. :)

edbear2
02-12-2009, 10:21 AM
I sold my PCP and bought two Feinwerkbau Sports. True, it takes more skill to shoot the Sport accurately, but then I don't have to keep a diving cylinder in the flat/car-boot, and it is just less trouble to maintain and own.

Perhaps your childhood memories are influenced by the fact that they are those of a child, i.e. someone with no experience or discernment.

I am sure if you were to handle and use a Feinwerkbau Sport now, with the improved modern pellets, you would recognise what a fine example of the gunmaker's art it is.

If you were to strip one down you would appreciate that the barrel is perfectly rifled, and no suprise here as it is the same one that graces the FWB300, the Olympic match rifle. And you would see the precision-bored cylinder which has been honed to perfection. And the elegant piston that Bonnie & Clyde says is so well made it does not need a rear PTFE bearing.

It is very light for a full power spring gun, only 7lbs, and the cocking pressure is half that of Weihrauchs of similar power. The balance is perfect and it is easily shouldered and brought to aim, making it a pleasure to shoot.

True, there are some faults with the rifle, but these are treatable and minor in nature, most rifles need some tweaking to perfect them.

If a 'mint' or superb condition one comes up for sale for say, 250, then a sensible person might look at what is available in terms of modern offerings. The Weihrauch 99S is slightly cheaper and the Weihrauch 95K is slightly more expensive. They are excellent guns but both are heavier and harder to cock than the FWB. Of course they have the superb Rekord trigger, but many people would still prefer to spend their cash on the FWB in preference to the HWs as it is their such a classy little rifle. PCPs don't enter into it.

A decent break-barrel springer is less troublesome and far less expensive than a PCP. A PCP made to the same spec as a FWB Sport would cost at least 400, then there is another 150 for the tank, tenner a fill for the air, yearly maintenance bills for the gun to keep it safe, and all the fun of filling and power-curves to enjoy. The Sport, once it is set up, will shoot consistently with superb accuracy for tens of thousands of shots with nothing more than a little oil on the breech-bolt and breech latch. It's a piece of excellent engineering which would cost about 350 if it was on sale now. And that's why people will pay over the odds for them.

What can one buy for 100 new? A poor-quality Chinese rifle or a cheap CO2 gun. A second-hand Feinwerkbau Sport is in a different league to them, and worth alot more.

So.....are they any good then???:p:p

Muskett
02-12-2009, 11:04 AM
Hsing-ee
Couldn't have said it better myself.

And if you want to learn to become a great rifleman then the FWB is just about the best way to learn good marksmanship principles; which you can then apply to just about anything you can shoot be it a gat gun, 50 cal, or even RPG.

PCP's are modern and great for what they do but are lazy in terms of marksmanship technique. Funnily, my son (14), who can shoot just about any rifle he pretty well he wants, commandeered mine to the point I had to get another!


http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz128/Muskett_2009/IMG_3951.jpg

Hsing-ee
02-12-2009, 11:05 AM
So.....are they any good then???:p:p

Well, they are not for everyone. They are quite hold-sensitive so take a bit of practice to get used to, and you will need to get parts from specialist sources like Maccari and Bonnie & Clyde. But they are as good as any modern break-barrel in terms of performance and better than nearly all of them. Also, for smaller adults, women and youths they are a great choice for an all-day rifle. They come with sling-swivels as standard which is a nice touch too.

edbear2
02-12-2009, 12:16 PM
Well, they are not for everyone. They are quite hold-sensitive so take a bit of practice to get used to, and you will need to get parts from specialist sources like Maccari and Bonnie & Clyde. But they are as good as any modern break-barrel in terms of performance and better than nearly all of them. Also, for smaller adults, women and youths they are a great choice for an all-day rifle. They come with sling-swivels as standard which is a nice touch too.


I know mate, I was just trying to be a bit ironic:o..your first post was the most comprehensive, fair minded and informative, covering all the pro's and con's of this excellent gun, write up that I have read for a long time!!!!:)

coburn
03-12-2009, 07:24 AM
Good thread this, not a great fan myself but very interesting info on one of the top break barrel rifles of all time. I just think their period at the top was too short lived and whilst cutting edge in 1978 the FWB had lost out to the Original 45 and HW80by say 1982.

Or am I wrong?

OLD JUD
03-12-2009, 09:32 AM
Good thread this, not a great fan myself but very interesting info on one of the top break barrel rifles of all time. I just think their period at the top was too short lived and whilst cutting edge in 1978 the FWB had lost out to the Original 45 and HW80by say 1982.

Or am I wrong?

Dr Robert Beeman tested all the top European air rifles in the early 80's, and the FWB was every bit as powerful and a little more accurate compared to the Original 45.

Muskett
03-12-2009, 02:47 PM
Its a weight thing. The 45's are heavy, weight forward and just not as pretty. Fat boy HW80 and even then they don't shoot any better.

Then next rifle with best ergonomics, point-ability, looks and the right weight was the Omega. Its these other things that add to the package...

Garvin
03-12-2009, 03:38 PM
Further to what Muskett said, I think in some respects the Original 45 and HW80 are superior to the Sport (which first came out several years earlier, in about 1973) but in other respects are inferior. It's a personal choice thing. The Sport has flaws, most small and correctable as Hsing-ee says, but as a complete package there's nothing quite like it.

Some time ago I posted up a list of pros and cons of the Sport and was surprised how many minor faults or gripes it was possible to come up with. Despite these, most people who own a Sport find they love it and prefer it to its bigger, heavier, more rugged rivals.

The list, drawn up with input from other owners, is:


Good points:

Lightweight
Easy cocking
Nicely balanced
Max power achievable at sub-12 ft/lbs
Great accuracy once correct hold established
Highly tuneable
Excellent external metal finish
Excellent internal parts finish
Match quality barrel and cylinder
Ease of home servicing (with spring compressor)
Good availability of service parts (ie. Maccari metal trigger, spring/seal kits)
Still competes with more recent guns nearly 40 years on
Illustrious brand name
Holds market value

Not so good/bad points:

Barrel breech ball detent lockup wears over time
Barrel pivot bolt needs to be kept tight/checked regularly
Trigger not as good as HW Rekord
Plastic and later alloy triggers can snap
Safety slide 'wings' are fragile
Safety slide can become ineffective
Rearsight is plastic/elevation adjuster crude
Hardened steel mainspring retaining bolt screws into mild steel trigger block
Some stocks weak at pistol grip
Trigger guard is stamped steel
Long FWB spring needs compressor to remove
Scope grooves have no stop screw holes, only shallow depressions.
Some parts now hard to find or unobtainable

mallyally
03-12-2009, 06:38 PM
Further to what Muskett said, I think in some respects the Original 45 and HW80 are superior to the Sport (which first came out several years earlier, in about 1973) but in other respects are inferior. It's a personal choice thing. The Sport has flaws, most small and correctable as Hsing-ee says, but as a complete package there's nothing quite like it.

Some time ago I posted up a list of pros and cons of the Sport and was surprised how many minor faults or gripes it was possible to come up with. Despite these, most people who own a Sport find they love it and prefer it to its bigger, heavier, more rugged rivals.

The list, drawn up with input from other owners, is:


Good points:

Lightweight
Easy cocking
Nicely balanced
Max power achievable at sub-12 ft/lbs
Great accuracy once correct hold established
Highly tuneable
Excellent external metal finish
Excellent internal parts finish
Match quality barrel and cylinder
Ease of home servicing (with spring compressor)
Good availability of service parts (ie. Maccari metal trigger, spring/seal kits)
Still competes with more recent guns nearly 40 years on
Illustrious brand name
Holds market value

Not so good/bad points:

Barrel breech ball detent lockup wears over time
Barrel pivot bolt needs to be kept tight/checked regularly
Trigger not as good as HW Rekord
Plastic and later alloy triggers can snap
Safety slide 'wings' are fragile
Safety slide can become ineffective
Rearsight is plastic/elevation adjuster crude
Hardened steel mainspring retaining bolt screws into mild steel trigger block
Some stocks weak at pistol grip
Trigger guard is stamped steel
Long FWB spring needs compressor to remove
Scope grooves have no stop screw holes, only shallow depressions.
Some parts now hard to find or unobtainable

and its got the X factor ;) as far as i am concerned

coburn
04-12-2009, 07:18 AM
I re read my 6th edition Beeman airgun guide last night and of all the sporting rifles the FWB did have the smallest group ctc at 25ft. It was only beaten by one other recoiling rifle which was the HW55. I consider that to be a very good performance. One correspondant claimed his Sport was doing 822fps with Silver Jet which works out to 12.7ftlb a very credible performance for a .177 Rifle in those times.

Of course it was Beeman himself who helped sow the seed of the Sports demise by helping to create the R1/80 which effectively killed FWB's North American market.

red bob
04-12-2009, 07:28 PM
this comparison has been up before judge and jury a while back;im lucky enough to have had both for years ,i only keep that which delivers the goods long term for my open field hunting needs in all weathers and conditions;this will normaly expose any shortcomings .and quite simply the wiehrauchs are excellent tough workmanlike but for all the reasons mentioned and more eloquantly put than i could emmulate the fwb followed by the 45 are in the gun rack ready for action night or day;with the fenman he for close work[still being evaluated but looking good so far]the orig 45 is a little longer a bit heavier ;trigger unit [in my opinion] not so light ;im not a paper puncher but i shoot confidently to maximum hunting range with the fwb,its relative lightness and size against other options was a big plus add on accuracy which doesnt always follow with a springer and its a complete [self contained]package.on the pcp side my professional vermin control collegue uses the latest electronic pcp, its truely a masterpiece of modern tech but it broke down in the field and took 2 weeks to have fixed and is not self contained.the fwb is 20 yrs down the road and i can fix it in the kitchen.

slug-gun
04-12-2009, 08:00 PM
I had about 5 or 6 'Sports in the late 70's and early 80's, starting with one of the 121's with the plain stock, no.15000 or so, bought from The Airgun Centre in 1978.
Great rifle as everyone has said, easily tuneable, and very, very accurate.
Stayed with them until 1990 when I considered that Theoben had got as good as they were going to get with the Sirocco Classic, at which point I bought one.
The Theoben was/is more accurate than the 'Sport; had a faster 'lock time', had a miles better ergonomic walnut stock; was more consistent; was fitted with a silencer and was as well finished as the FWB.
Simply overall a better air rifle, good as though the Sport was, but then the Theoben was a great deal more expensive so perhaps not a fair comparison?

mallyally
05-12-2009, 08:53 AM
the latest theoben gas ram air rifles are not as good as the old stuff :eek:
try comparing a sport with a modern evo and you will get a different result ;)
i ve had two classics and now own a countryman .
i bought a thumb hole evo and had it a month :o still got four FWBs though
not disagreeing though the EARLY theobens did give the FWB a run for its money and were in some ways ( barrel lock up / scope mounting system ) BETTER :o did i just say that

RustyBuzz
05-12-2009, 09:04 AM
Pre HW77

FWB Sport - 4 field target national titles
Original 45 - 1 field target national title
HW80 - 1 field target national title
Theoben - 0

Which rifle is the best is clearly a matter of opinion, but some hard facts are hard to ignore.;)

mallyally
05-12-2009, 09:35 AM
Pre HW77

FWB Sport - 4 field target national titles
Original 45 - 1 field target national title
HW80 - 1 field target national title
Theoben - 0

Which rifle is the best is clearly a matter of opinion, but some hard facts are hard to ignore.;)

cant say more than that can you ;)
and i still have my mastersport ;)

remember the poll on here about a year ago / cant argue with that either :D

Muskett
05-12-2009, 04:10 PM
Upgraded to Theobens a long time ago. Upgrade? Not really; went through two (bent barrel syndrome). Had a few since/recently and they aren't anymore forgiving than anything else. Now I'm back to Sports as my preferred field air rifle. I've had most of the rifles that I dreamed of owning when younger. The Sport comes up tops because it works on all fronts and is very accurate.

Having said that Sorts are still not that easy to shoot straight (pcp) and you do have to do all the right things. However, for standing unsupported they seem to guide that pellet home. Most spring, or gasram for that matter, just don't get it if you change your position or do something different. The heavy weight HW77 is the other spring driven tack driver but try shooting that standing unsupported when all scoped up ;)

coburn
07-12-2009, 07:16 AM
On the strength of this thread I went out on Saturday morning and bought a Sport from my local gunshop (GT Shooting of Coulsdon), to be honest I didn't need much incouragement

I must say I am very impressed and can see what all the fuss is about with these rifles. The last time I used one was about 1985!

Can anyone date it (serial no 144XX) and mine also has the wrap around foresight with the interchangable elements.

Is slightly down on power so now I am off to the spares people for a mainspring, piston washer and breech seal.

Oh and the best bit, its a 124..

Muskett
07-12-2009, 01:41 PM
Doing all the right things today coburn ;) Bought the right rifle, right calibre too.

I like the new school Marcarri kits, which both my 124's are fitted with (no spring compressor needed). If you do put an order in do get the tar and paste. All his bits are good, trigger, safety spring and rear sight blind (hides the holes) but it does end up quite costly. Don't put a huge scope on it and nothing cheap. An old 3-9X40 Tasco would be perfect. Sportsmatch one piece medium/low mounts or Apel steel work well. I like no moderator as there is little advantage and you're not helping the excellent balance. Lastly Superdomes work great.

Enjoy.

coburn
07-12-2009, 02:00 PM
Thanks Muskett.

I was a bit concerned about the need for a spring compressor and the delicate looking wings on the safety catch.

Scope wise it came with an old Rhino 6x32 with a pointed post reticule, but I've got a one inch tubed Tasco 4x20 with a 30/30 reticule which is lovely lightweight scope which i may fit.

Its currently running at 8.5 to 8.8ftlbs with velocities around 750 with Hobbies and 680 with Superdome so its only about 70 to 100 fps down. The spring does feel a bit springy and creaky on cocking.

The amazing thing is how consistant it is, variation of only 10fps with various pellets.

Garvin
07-12-2009, 02:09 PM
Thanks Muskett.

I was a bit concerned about the need for a spring compressor and the delicate looking wings on the safety catch.I have a piece of hardwood dowel with small cutouts to accommodate the safety catch 'wings'. It was a bit daunting the first time but as long as the action is held securely in the compressor it's actually quite straightforward. Check out I.J's disassembly photos and make sure you use wire or something like it to tie the safety slide tightly to the trigger block (at least either side of the trigger) as you withdraw it. I use strips of plastic coated garden wire.

:)

I. J.
07-12-2009, 02:51 PM
I have a piece of hardwood dowel with small cutouts to accommodate the safety catch 'wings'. It was a bit daunting the first time but as long as the action is held securely in the compressor it's actually quite straightforward. Check out I.J's disassembly photos and make sure you use wire or something like it to tie the safety slide tightly to the trigger block (at least either side of the trigger) as you withdraw it. I use strips of plastic coated garden wire.

:)

Your wish is my command. See HERE. (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v485/Airsniper/Feinwerkbau%20Sport%20Strip/) :D

I use a block of wood with a notch cut out between the end cap and compressor to protect the safety catch 'wings' which are so easily broken Ive bought a spare! :eek: :)

ATB
Ian :)

jackal1
07-12-2009, 03:19 PM
always wanted one of these rifles, perhaps i will one day if one turns up.

mallyally
07-12-2009, 06:10 PM
always wanted one of these rifles, perhaps i will one day if one turns up.

one got sold at our club on sunday a mk2 sandwell tuned really good nick
200 / bargain i thought ;)

coburn
08-12-2009, 07:17 AM
Thanks for the info. Those photos certainly helped. I found a length of 10mm studing at work so I am off to build a spring compressor.

I thought about fitting a Maccari kit to it but I've seen that Chambers do a spring for about 12 quid so I might just fit one of those first, size the piston washer if needed and go from there.

mallyally
08-12-2009, 08:44 AM
Thanks for the info. Those photos certainly helped. I found a length of 10mm studing at work so I am off to build a spring compressor.

I thought about fitting a Maccari kit to it but I've seen that Chambers do a spring for about 12 quid so I might just fit one of those first, size the piston washer if needed and go from there.

i prefer the original length springs they ARE hard to get in ( preload ) but in my opinion make the gun a bit smoother and easier to cock than /the more fashionable SHORT STIFF ONES :eek:
and thats how they were designed to work ;) they knew what they were doing i reckon :)

Nige
08-12-2009, 11:10 AM
There is always my stripdown with photo's HERE :) (http://www.postcardfromspain.com/feinwerkbau_124_sport_stripdown.htm)

red bob
08-12-2009, 06:43 PM
its great to see on returning to this thread after a week out ,that so many mems have made a large number of positive and constructive replys about this special mark.my affair with this rifle are legendry on the bbs as with others ;it still a bit difficult to deduce what places this fwb in such a unique place ,ive got an idea its somewhere between its undoudted quality of performance and a percentage of nostalgia ,one backing up the other.