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View Full Version : the battle of the underlevers: HW 97 K vs. AA TX 200 HC



hendrickotto
04-10-2010, 12:47 PM
The HW 97 K and the TX 200 HC compared.

The 97 K.

A few years ago I purchased a Weihrauch HW 97 K with blue laminated stock.
Unfortunately it had to be returned to the factory because of its non-aligning cocking lever (out of vertical when closed in its latch) and a crack in the stock just in front of the trigger guard.
It therefore took quite a while to be tested.

While certainly not used on a very regular basis I can now say a few things about it.

The metal work finish is better than on my older (eighties) full length HW 77.
It handles OK for me but compared to the older type of stock, the trigger distance from the pistol grip is a bit too short.
In fact, the pistol grip itself is also too short and almost looks to be designed for youths mainly. In addition, it lacks a palm swell.
Its butt is 10 mm shorter than on the older 97s with the longer barrel, which would fit me better. The stock could do with a bit of stippling. Beware of letting it slip when the fore end or the hands are a bit moist.
The weight however is not in keeping with this dimensioning.
Trigger could be better as from the factory (a bit of creep) and the safety feels a bit too slick.

Operation is "slick" and easy. Although not completely run in yet, I'm still amazed about its noise (a real "crack" sound) and dieseling. Firing this rifle does not go unnoticed at all. Its kick makes it difficult to judge if the piston action is very quick. I remember my very first shot with it shooting cleaning felts inside the dark garage: a loud crack like a 22 lr and a streak of fire from the barrel....
Accuracy is all right but it still kicks considerably. It also stinks a bit like the Gulf of Mexico after the oil leak. It screams to be tuned, really.
Loading is a jiffy because of its larger and deeper port and because of the barrel being out of centre and above the action centreline. I can load it in any position and without looking: it works at the touch only.
The cocking latch works very well for me, but the lever could have some nice cocking aid, preferably of a non-metal non-slip material. The cocking is a bit noisy with a high-pitch "click" on latching the lever. Not a nice comforting or solid sound.

About the stock, I have always the same gripe and it's therefore a personal thing not to be taken too serious by other users:
I would like a somewhat deeper and wider fore end, possibly with finger grooves along the top edge (somewhat like the Venom design for Webley stocks of some years ago).
I discovered a nice "hidden" feature: The cocking slot allows me to put the index finger of the leading hand into the front end of its widest part. This may give you better support and more "steerage" (at the same time eliminating canting) on standing and kneeling shots.

I would like HW to return to their older model stock like fitted on the Jubileum or Centennial models that had a laminate green stock, with a deeper pistol grip and longer butt. While at it, let them fit a thumb groove, please….

Overall impression: good sturdy quality and nice all rounder for an under lever cocker.
Its operation is quicker than the TX. It's a good starter for FT novices as well as a good all rounder for all sorts of competition.
Nice tool for spring-piston HFT use, especially after a good tune. Rather a fine tool than a pride of ownership item.


The TX 200 HC.

A never had a regular TX, but only two SR variants. Completely different systems and not as short as the hunter carbine, so these are a bit difficult to compare between them and therefore I put it up against the 97 K.
Just like the blue laminate 97 K, I wanted an Air Arms with the latest model stock. Since I have a penchant towards shorter rifles nowadays, the HC was a good candidate for purchase and I bought one a few months ago.
The metal work is just great. It looks and feels very solid and chunky and the blueing is very deep and classy. It reminds me of the old Venom work.
I selected the walnut stock for it. The stock came a bit "blonde" but this will darken over time.
It has a nice but understated grain to it.

Although of almost the same length (some 40 mm shorter than the HW), it handles completely different from the 97 K.
It feels more special and "de luxe", but demands just a bit more attention, even disregarding the anti bear trap ratchet. Dimensions around the butt are very nice. Length of pull is very good, but the trigger should sit a bit more towards the front in its guard to better fit the finger. The pistol grip has a nice form and rake and is deep enough but it has no palm swell. It lacks a thumb groove.
Just like the 97 K its fore stock is skinny to the hands, although extremely good looking.
The latest laser chequering is not bad and gives a good grip.
It will not surprise you that I find its fore end too narrow and shallow and I would like to compare it side to side to the previous model of stock. Unfortunately there is none available to me yet.
Its weight is considerable.
The trigger is not exactly how I want it yet but needs more work.

Its operation is certainly more complicated than that of the 97 K. The breech is such that I still frequently fumble pellets. In order to load I have to turn the gun towards the left around it axis to really look into it and put the pellet where it belongs. The breech is deeper (centreline mounted) into the action tube and the loading port dimensioned just a bit wrong for me.
Cocking is of course more noisy than with the HW because of the side mounted ratchet system. However, the cocking and latching sounds are very deep and solid. I would prefer a synthetic cocking aid to eliminate rusting and sharp edges. This seems to eat oily rags literally, because of its edges….
I do not like having to give a second tug on the cocking handle every few shots because the safety does not engage. I hope this is a running in problem only.
Firing from the start was much nicer than the HW. Almost no dieseling noise and no petroleum based fumes or smell. It seems Air Arms put a nice perfume to their lubricants because the smell is even very nice! Piston action seems very quick and smooth and there is no kick. Action noise is much less and the insert mod seems to work.
Accuracy looks to be at least comparable with the 97 K, but I have not finished testing a lot of pellets as yet.
The cocking slot underneath the fore end does not allow me to put the index finger into its widest part. It is too narrow and too shallow because you immediately touch the cocking lever linkage. I like to touch wood, not metal when shooting…..

Overall impression: very good sturdy quality and a really beautiful product. It is less of an all rounder for an under cocker.
Its operation is more time consuming and demands more attention than the HW. With its factory stock it is less appropriate a good starter for FT novices. Not a very good all rounder for all sorts of competition.
For spring-piston HFT use, I would rather recommend the HW.
More fit for classic hunting than for competition. It is less of a fine general shooting tool, but very much a beautifully finished pride of ownership item.

Copyrights reserved.


Hendrick Otto

October 2010

18 Wheeler
05-10-2010, 01:09 PM
My 97 also dieselled when new, it's common, but was solved by firing 20 or so heavy pellets (Bismags) as recommended by Jim Maccari. I don't know why this works but it did for my gun.

When you fired felt pellets and got heavy dieselling did you put a pellet behind the felts? Firing felts on their own provides insufficient resistance to the piston and will result in piston slam, deseilling and possible damage.

I've not used the laminate stock you have. Most people find the trigger to be a little too far forward (the opposite to your experience) on the standard stock, hence the popularity of aftermarket set back trigger blades.

The safety on both of my HW's is very positive.

As you conclude, the TX is widely regarded as the better gun out of the box. My 97 has been tuned (relubed by me, then SFS "tune" and recently B&C'ed). The B&C tune appears to have brought out the best in this gun, and whilst it's early days, I have shot a few groups that I wouldn't have thought possible with a springer:). It outperforms a TX in terms of not being hold dependant, a tuned TX may well match it, but I've not shot one.

I prefer the TX stocks, but as a lefthander found the action and ABT to be awkward hence my decision to go for the HW.

Both great guns IMO

hendrickotto
06-10-2010, 12:26 PM
Hi Wheeler,

yes I did put a pellet behind the cleaning felt and did use about 25 - 30 baracuda pellets, but still dieseling.
At that first shot I held the gun about 30° to the vertical onto a pellet catch. That position might have increased the dieseling effect, sort of like a turbo diesel )°°...
Could you get me the address of B & C, plse ?
Have another question to ask by e-mail, if I may.

THX,

Hendrick

18 Wheeler
07-10-2010, 01:48 AM
Try e-mailing Dave at shotmastertuning@yahoo.co.uk,

Will PM you an e-mail address.