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ALEMAN

03-10-2006, 12:31 PM

:) Thinking about buying a Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25x56 anybody got one or tried one ?

Aardys

03-10-2006, 01:12 PM

:eek: i wish i had one . ;) :D

ChrisC

03-10-2006, 01:48 PM

Tim Finley had one at Redfearns a while ago and it was really impressive...and i mean REALLY impressive. I heard a rumour of a higher mag FT version in the future.....just little things made it stand out like, blinding optics, fair rangefinding for a small mag, illuminated ret and the top turret has a band of small windows around the top that change colour when you go a full turn up.

James Butler

03-10-2006, 02:56 PM

In a nutshell these scopes are phenominal!!

Aardys

03-10-2006, 03:09 PM

In a nutshell these scopes are phenominal!!
:D in a nutshell they are expensive :D :D

RobF

03-10-2006, 03:39 PM

if it's for FT, wait till the new one is out...dedicated and designed for the job, still in development...looked through one myself, couldnt fault it really...thread about it over on AGF in the FT area :)

ChrisC

03-10-2006, 04:01 PM

Rob.. I have the tech sheets and a piccy of the new FT S&B scope in pdf format....anyone who would like a copy then please feel free to drop me an email:)

RobF

03-10-2006, 05:04 PM

PM sent

PS the FT s&b is 30mm tube, so no need for expensive mounts :D

bulls_hitter

03-10-2006, 09:43 PM

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Engine-room/DSCF0221.jpg

Ive got the PMII on top of my accuracy international i was shooting 600yards at bisley last sunday it has to be one of if not the best scope made.

Steve

P.S. my local gun shop has a secondhand one for sale, not a masive saving over new but i am told that you cant get one at the moment.

blue

04-10-2006, 01:22 PM

Do you really need a S&B for FT:confused:
Your not really looking at anything beyond 55 yards. What would the S&B do that the Burris/Leupold/Nightforce (even that seemed a bit OTT).
I can understand the requirement for long range or very low light situations but 55 yards it seems utterly daft.
What situation would require this level of performance?

I await the castigation;)

ChrisC

04-10-2006, 01:32 PM

Its like anything else....you want the best tool for the job:)

ALEMAN

04-10-2006, 05:40 PM

It,s not for F.T. it will be going on my custom 6mm Ackley Imp. P.S. ordered one today will be here tomorrow.:)

blue

05-10-2006, 07:19 AM

It,s not for F.T. it will be going on my custom 6mm Ackley Imp. P.S. ordered one today will be here tomorrow.:)

That I can fathom:)

ChrisC

05-10-2006, 07:42 AM

blue

05-10-2006, 11:19 AM

Blue...i'm sure i'm not the only FT shooter that found your replies a little patronising:rolleyes:

In any form of Target shooting......if you can afford the best then use it, then if you miss its not down to dodgy optics or poor rangefinding.

Please don't belittle other shooting sports...it is called Airgun BBS after all, in fact IMHO there should be no mention of Rimmie/full bore/ shotties on this site at all.:)

Chris.

I was not intending on any form of underrating the FT scene at all.
My issue was that in FT, I found that rangefinding actually became more difficult with very good optics. The best rangefinding scope I had was a Tasco 8-40 Custom shop that had shocking optics.
The middle ground for me was a Burris 8-32 with good optics and good rangefinding, but I used the Tasco to calibrate the objective (before I had a laser RF)I used Leup and Burris that were designed for shorter range rangefinding. Also the use of spectacularly complex reticules made things more confusing for that application.
When I first saw a Nightforce, I thought the optics were good, but the rangefinding was no better than the Burris.

I would still happily admit that I gave up FT as I was never that good at it (despite spending a fortune). That was due to the difficulty of it for me. I would never suggest that FT was a lesser sport or easier than any form of shooting I have been involved in (good scores elude me in running deer though)

ChrisC

05-10-2006, 01:05 PM

:) Nice post Blue:) ....my apologies for sounding a little harsh:o

hareng

07-10-2006, 10:23 PM

The PM2 is a great scope worth the extra over an over priced NXS.

Incidently the FT 50 mag is still in prototype stages but near to finalisation then production.
In answer to this "What would the S&B do that the Burris/Leupold/Nightforce" Considering the first two are not available unless second hand, that only leaves the BR & NXS of which the S&B FT scope will be approx £95 cheaper!

luddite

06-12-2006, 01:15 PM

I recently bought ALEMAN's PM II and I tried it at Ponte Air Rifle Club on tuesday, it will have a large sidewheel when it pops through my letterbox, but even with the standard 43 mm sidewheel it range finds extremely well. :) And the optics are absolutely superb. :) :) I'm using it for FT and if that upsets you 1,000 yard shooters tough. ;) In bad light conditions I expect it to compare favourably with the best scopes currently used for FT.

Teresa

06-12-2006, 11:52 PM

luddite

07-12-2006, 12:17 PM

I've heard wonders of the optics, also that on 25x it has no blind spots, but what about the reticle? Isn't it a bit unyieldy for FT, with the wide spacings between the dots?

Teresa

Nah, it's the same windage dots at all magnifications so if wound down to 20 mag it's fine enough for precise aiming. On 5 mag it focuses down to 7 yards, if the new 50 mag FT model is any better it will shoot the gun for you. I could actually see to hit a target at 25 yards at 3:49pm last night and I could see every hole. The optics are the best that I have ever seen and I've had almost everything.:)

Jochen L.

07-12-2006, 05:53 PM

Hmm..............

I'm currently testing one of that latest Prototype. ( I presume they wanted the impressions of a "normal" shooter )

Clear & bright optics

due to that its rather easy to acquire the Target at 50x in dawn & rain, even if its hidden in the woods, painted black and the faceplate is hardly used.

A very good rangefinder, at 50x it measures metre by metre even between 40 metres & 50 meters ( at 50x it goes rather sudden into a sharp image )

That one I've got is not temperature sensitive between 35° Celsius ( in a greenhouse ) and 8° Celsius ( the lowest temperature we had over here in the early morning )

If the low autumn-sun is directly in the front it becomes slightly foggy. ( but they have already sorted that out on the other prototypes, its only me who don't want to part from it because there are still some comps to shoot & I love it so )

I got used to shoot at 50x for I found out that my groupings from the normal shooting position are smaller and my scores have improved

The mechanics are highly accurate 1 click = 1/4 MOA not more not less as 10 clicks are 2.5 MOA not more not less too

The downsides IMO

The sidewheel is much to big ( 5" ) for I don't need a gap of 3 mm between 49 and 50 metres and a smaller one would be more easy to handle.

The top-turret is to low ( if the sidewheel stays as big as it is ) , for I've to dial with the right hand.

Its difficult to mount the index ( pointer ) for that sidewheels is to large.

Compared to my Burris 8-32x44 RA its brighter even at 50x and a better rangefinder in dim conditions.

Compared to my Bausch & Lomp 4200 36x40 brighter & clearer in dim conditions and a far better rangefinder in varying light-situations.

Cheers Jochen

PS @Ken you should have waited a while, but on the other hand what means technique & design to a real luddite ;) probably for thar best. :D :p

Teresa

07-12-2006, 09:35 PM

Nah, it's the same windage dots at all magnifications so if wound down to 20 mag it's fine enough for precise aiming. On 5 mag it focuses down to 7 yards, if the new 50 mag FT model is any better it will shoot the gun for you. I could actually see to hit a target at 25 yards at 3:49pm last night and I could see every hole. The optics are the best that I have ever seen and I've had almost everything.:)

Wow, that's what I call a reference! :)
In that case, congratulations on your purchase!

Jochen L., thank you for sharing the info about the new S&B prototype. Did they tell you when it will be on sale to the public?

Jochen L.

08-12-2006, 08:51 AM

.......if the new 50 mag FT model is any better it will shoot the gun for you.

Definitely not, but it wont foul you by showing the wrong ranges ( as far as can say it after 2 month of use ) or having the crosshair on the wrong point. Just a near to perfect tool that makes you able to do your job proper.

But at least the best tool is only trumpery in a dump fools hand, as there is a saying over here. It depends on the shoot if he hits or miss. And this is the reason I want it, for I don't want to worry if it was me or the scope any longer.

To the reticule, there will be one that is designed by one of the BFTA- topshoots. The arguments for every mark on it are well & reasonable and showing the experience of its designer. I'm not sure if I may say more.

I'll use that reticule from the next year on, hoping that this is the next step to make it perfect.

As far as I know it shall be released in early spring,
Might be it takes a little bit longer for there where some minor difficulties on that ones having the reticule on the second focal plane, and there are some shoots that want to have this, in fact the majority over here.
I'm tiered to argue against that, for you can have both as you like it, so every fool to its own ( another saying )

Cheers Jochen

PS
I could actually see to hit a target at 25 yards at 3:49pm last night

It should be mentioned that we got one of the brightest moons I saw this year.

luddite

08-12-2006, 01:29 PM

Definitely not, but it wont foul you by showing the wrong ranges ( as far as can say it after 2 month of use ) or having the crosshair on the wrong point. Just a near to perfect tool that makes you able to do your job proper.

But at least the best tool is only trumpery in a dump fools hand, as there is a saying over here. It depends on the shoot if he hits or miss. And this is the reason I want it, for I don't want to worry if it was me or the scope any longer.

To the reticule, there will be one that is designed by one of the BFTA- topshoots. The arguments for every mark on it are well & reasonable and showing the experience of its designer. I'm not sure if I may say more.

I'll use that reticule from the next year on, hoping that this is the next step to make it perfect.

As far as I know it shall be released in early spring,
Might be it takes a little bit longer for there where some minor difficulties on that ones having the reticule on the second focal plane, and there are some shoots that want to have this, in fact the majority over here.
I'm tiered to argue against that, for you can have both as you like it, so every fool to its own ( another saying )

Cheers Jochen

PS

It should be mentioned that we got one of the brightest moons I saw this year.

Not in my garden it was not. :p
Anyway if the new 50 is as good as you say I might even buy one, but after all a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. ;)
I should be carefull with your german sayings, they may not translate in the way you intend. I'm presuming that you did not intend to be insulting? ;)

Jochen L.

08-12-2006, 02:14 PM

....... I'm presuming that you did not intend to be insulting? ;)

:eek: Of course not. Sorry :o if it did annoy anybody

The only thing I've tried to say that you cant buy a hit.

The only thing you can buy is a more accurate tool, but the result depends on every ones own ability to use it.

That obviously contradiction between your nick and your love to technical high-end products is always tempting ;)

Jochen

RobF

08-12-2006, 02:31 PM

Glad someone else shares my opinion of the s&b...i dont know if it's rose tinted glasses, but the more i think about the short time afforded to me by Jon with it the more i think they will have a customer or 2 here.

Jochen, have they spoken to you about a pre-order scheme?

Jochen L.

08-12-2006, 07:48 PM

...............
Jochen, have they spoken to you about a pre-order scheme?

No and I've also no idea on what way they will sell it in the UK.

But I'll ask for that information & keep you informed.

Cheers Jochen

RobF

08-12-2006, 08:09 PM

cool, ta :)

luddite

10-12-2006, 06:27 AM

I would probably hit more targets if I stuck with just one scope Jocken. But I love shooting and love gadgets. I have tried almost every scope available on the British market, and a few that aren't, and the S+B 5-25x56 is the best for FT amongst them. If the new 50x is significantly better than that I will be pleasantly surprised. :)

ger_043

10-12-2006, 09:14 AM

hello,
any internet german shop where I can buy one of the S&B scopes the next spring?
i think first focal plane will be better but i dont know if the reticle will be very huge to make fine shoots.whats your opinion?
thanks
ger

luddite

17-12-2006, 08:32 PM

I have the S+B on my Steyr LG 100 and I am waiting for a sidewheel to be delivered at the moment. However I scored 28/30 at Redfearns yesterday with it, so even without a large sidewheel it range finds very well. :)The optics compare favourably with the best that I have ever used and it has not whited out as yet, even when the sun is shining straight down the front lens. I have only ever seen this before with a Burris 8-32x44. I now have no excuse for missing the target under any conditions. ;) :)
I will post an update when I have fitted and calibrated the expected sidewheel. :)

sniper-wolf

22-12-2006, 04:27 PM

Look forward to it Ken. Oh, and have a great Christmas mate. ATB Neil.

xbow

22-12-2006, 05:24 PM

No and I've also no idea on what way they will sell it in the UK.

But I'll ask for that information & keep you informed.

Cheers Jochen

Yes, please let us know where it will be available in Germany Jochen as I suspect it will be cheaper for us to import one than buy from a UK shop!

flims

30-12-2006, 02:52 AM

how much is that S&B model sold for in the UK? i have spoken to people who own one on their long range precision rifles and they vouch for it. the adjustments are very repeatable and distinct clicks can be heard each time you dial in. the colour coded revolution counter is realy helpful and a total plus. 100 MOA of travel in elevation makes it a superb long range tool on a tack driver rifle. i have seen the box test done with the scope and i have to say its impressive-this was testing the repeatability of the adjustments and also the exact value for each click. the P4 reticle is a very nice feature too and very useful in the right hands.

ger_043

30-12-2006, 09:22 AM

xbow

30-12-2006, 11:24 AM

ger_043

30-12-2006, 01:38 PM

thanks for the link. i know about this shop because i buy a big nikko this year. but the service was 50/50. mine came in good condition and two friends buy the same scope. one of my friends have problems with his scope and the shop say good bye.

any other oficial retailer in germany with warranty and very very serious? we are planning buy 3 S&B FT scopes. any feedback will be welcome
thanks

xbow

30-12-2006, 03:01 PM

I've only bought from two German shops:

http://www.schuetzenwelt.de/ and http://www.stopper.de/

Don't know if either will be selling the S&B when it comes out though. :(

luddite

31-12-2006, 07:04 AM

please, what is the P4 reticle? how is it?

here is the link i was looking for:
http://www.tacproshootingcenter.com/PDF/P4_reticle_5-25x56.pdf

luddite,this is the new reticle you talk about in past posts?
thanks in advance

Hi ger, that's not the reticle fitted to mine, mine has mil dots which are handy for FT as there are some shots in very dark conditions, and they can be used as a check on the range finding. There is also an illumination facility so the reticle can be seen under even the worst conditions. So far I have discovered that while range finding is possible between 50-55 yards it is not as good as my 40x Leupold Competition. This is offset by the versatillaty of the lower magnification. Plus as stated the range can be checked by milling the target quite effectively. :)