Daystate FTR

[bolted]

Just got one of these after a considerable delay. A friend ordered the Airwolf at the same time and we compared them today. The Airwolf is a little lighter, with less wood.It is very well balanced. He previously had a Rapid II, which he got rid of because the buddy bottle kept leaking.
The trigger is the same unit on the FTR and Wolf. The thing I like about the FTR is the hand position in the thumbhole, and the adjustable cheekpiece. I wanted an FTR so that I could try FT, but also wanted an extremely accurate .177 rifle for rabbits/magpies. The cheekpiece adjustment allows all manner of mount heights and scopes to be used. Daystate supplied it with a blanking insert in the muzzle flip unit, so that a silencer could be fitted to the threaded end cap. I have fitted a Weihrauch unit. With this in place, the FTR is much quieter than the Wolf- staggeringly so for a .177

Both guns are beautifully built, but the instruction manual side of things is a joke. Full access to the information depends on having a computer, which surely makes Daystate liable should an accident occur. My rifle arrived without any CD Rom, allen keys or manual. Fortunately, I had already looked at the on line info. In the manual for the Wolf, it doesn't actually clearly say that the electronics should be switched on before the rifle can be used. Result was that my chum who is new to shooting loaded up the mag after charging with air, and chambered several pellets before giving up. We managed to extract the stack of pellets eventually, and all is now well. I suppose the vast majority of buyers of these products will be experienced, but that is no excuse. The mags are fiddly to insert, requiring quite a shove when they are new, and the position of the bolt seems quire critical, but things rapidly became easier with practice.

We are now looking forward to trying them out back to back for performance. I am sure the difference will be very small. Be interesting to see what the regulator on the FTR does to velocity towards the end of an air charge

[Gar73]

The only things that let the FTR down when new in no particular order are. When your first getting used to it I tended to pull the bolt right back and I struggled to seat pellets correctly. This would result in the odd pellet rolling back and getting in behind the bolt. Its quite a common fault a lot of people have noted as a problem. This does not happen now I dont pull the bolt back far enough and I have the knack of getting the pellet in first time no probs. I guess this one is all down to time and practice. The instruction manual on the electrical charging front does not explain things clearly enough. I asked on here and got the info I required but you should not have to really. Myself and another FTR user have noticed that if we fill above 210bar and shoot at a target straight away the point of impact is about 1" to high. If we fill to 205-210bar 5 shots later and the POI is back where it always was. This has lead me to only fill to 205bar fire 5 practice shots and then check zero. My manual said fill to 220bar the factory told me 232bar I do neither and am willing to lose 10-15 shots but have it perform as it should straight from the gun bag. Overall its a excellent Air rifle and its little faults are nothing to worry about once you realise how to get around them. I hope you enjoy using your FTR I do.

[bolted]

I will follow your advice re fill pressure.

I fitted the single shot tray after getting back from the range. It will be interesting to see what effect that has . Also noted that the muzzle of the mod is marked internally, so it may not be sitting true. Will also try with no mod. Thinking about a compact carbon mod to keep overall length down. Great gun. So pleased I opted for this and not the Wolf. The FTR is more versatile as long as you like the handling. I have other thumbhole rifles, and they are my favourites without doubt. Wonder how it got down the chimney though.

[Gar73]

You just need dead calm conditions or an indoor range and then have a go at 55 yards with 4.53 Daystate selects. Its really impressive. Also just to note my rifle seems to average about 785fps with the above pellets over the chrono so it seem to have enough grunt.

[Buzz Lite Beer]

The only things that let the FTR down when new in no particular order are. When your first getting used to it I tended to pull the bolt right back and I struggled to seat pellets correctly. This would result in the odd pellet rolling back and getting in behind the bolt. Its quite a common fault a lot of people have noted as a problem. This does not happen now I dont pull the bolt back far enough and I have the knack of getting the pellet in first time no probs. I guess this one is all down to time and practice. The instruction manual on the electrical charging front does not explain things clearly enough. I asked on here and got the info I required but you should not have to really. Myself and another FTR user have noticed that if we fill above 210bar and shoot at a target straight away the point of impact is about 1" to high. If we fill to 205-210bar 5 shots later and the POI is back where it always was. This has lead me to only fill to 205bar fire 5 practice shots and then check zero. My manual said fill to 220bar the factory told me 232bar I do neither and am willing to lose 10-15 shots but have it perform as it should straight from the gun bag. Overall its a excellent Air rifle and its little faults are nothing to worry about once you realise how to get around them. I hope you enjoy using your FTR I do.

You don't half talk some shi7e Gaz!!!

[Gar73]

You don't half talk some shi7e Gaz!!!

Kiss my big hairy swingers boy.:p

[Russ6357]

I thought that the FTR had a reg' in it - which should even out overfill POI changes due to velocity/

Perhaps the slight change in POI is due to expansion of air res'?

Have you chrono'd the first 10 shots fron the higher fill pressures?

[Pavel]

You don't half talk some shi7e Gaz!!!

LOL! You beat me too it. I was just going to say the very same thing. :D



Russ,
Take Gary's words of wisdom with a pinch of salt. He's new to this game and is still struggling to find his feet, let alone his rifle. Ain't that right, Gary? :p ;)

Paul.

[Gar73]

FFS wait one if I owned an FTR for one week it would be one week more than 99% of other experts (claimed to be) commenting on here. Fact is Buzz c@nt year said the same about the poi and over 210bar fill as I did and watched it happed no more than 5 day ago. As it was his advice I took regarding this.:mad:

Bolt jams
http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26621

charging
http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144639
http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155184&highlight=mk3+charging

" Russ,
Take Gary's words of wisdom with a pinch of salt. He's new to this game and is still struggling to find his feet, let alone his rifle. Ain't that right, Gary?

This maybe but I have £20 that says I beat you on the Lner shoot next Sunday around the 30 shot Ft course. Remind me again how many FTR's/Daystates you own Paul?.:confused: :D

[Russ6357]

So the FTR has a reg' then :)

POI change probably cylinder movement then (higher pressure expands cylinder a tad [a tad being a smidge more than a jot] and moves the barrel).

[Pavel]

Cor, you're dead easy to wind up, ain't ya? :)

As for Daystates, I owned an X2s for over a year before I bought the Dommie. I've gone on record many times stating my dis-like for the Mk3's.

Keep your money, you're going to need it to fund your next scope purchase. :D

Paul.

[Gar73]

So the FTR has a reg' then :)
POI change probably cylinder movement then (higher pressure expands cylinder a tad [a tad being a smidge more than a jot] and moves the barrel).

Yes its regged

I cant explain it myself. But theres no way I can do a 232bar fill and the zero at 35yards be the same as before I charged the rifle. It would take 15-20 shots to settle and you can watch the pellets slowly crawl back down the target onto the original zero over the 15-20 shots. Using a lower charge 5-10 shots has it back on zero. It explained why I would charge the rifle the night before an Ft shoot to 232bar arrive at the shoot go to the zeroing range fire 3-5 shots at 35yards to check zero and drop my point of impact by 1". No doubt after 20 shots and on the Ft course I was then shooting everything at least 1" low. Alan pointed it out to me last Wednesday and its a good job he did its stopped me chasing the poi about and has added a little more confidence knowing that once its done the 5-10 shots its doing what I set it up to.

[Gar73]

Cor, you're dead easy to wind up, ain't ya? :)

As for Daystates, I owned an X2s for over a year before I bought the Dommie. I've gone on record many times stating my dis-like for the Mk3's.

Keep your money, you're going to need it to fund your next scope purchase. :D

Paul.

Nope not easy to wind up. Just pointing out the things that confused me when I bought the FTR (battery charging/pellet jams/poi change). All of which has taken me time to discover and hopefully I can help bolted to skip these potential problems quickly if they happen to him. All little things are slowly being ironed out if I can do 16's-17's consistently on a setup thats shooting 1" low due to the above poi change after initial charge and the sidewheel reading 50 yards when the target is actually 55yards away (ran out of time when setting it up) with a rifle I still dont feel totally comfortable with then the future is looking bright with a few choice mods being done over the next few weeks . Anschutz butt hook is my next mod as I dont want to add the weight to the stock but I need to secure the rifle at the butt and it was either weight or hook. Different mounts to allow fitment of a sunshade, and new bigger top turrent to help avoid dialing wrong distances in. And most of all practice in good conditions I have yet to shoot this rifle in any other condition but windy I have never had a dead calm day with it. Its been a hurried setup with less than ideal conditions to do it in. My aim is to be consistenly shooting 20+ scores as the season goes by. The only thing I lack is time and good weather to use the rifle in. I have written this season off as a learning curve after missing some shoots and I will use it to get everything ready for next season. Time will tell.

[Pod]

Take the action out of the stock and have a look to see if there is a ridge at the front of the stock. If there is then get a suitable bit of round something (broom handle?) and some sandpaper and remove the ridge. Keep remounting the action into the stock until you can get a very thin bit of paper between the cylinder and the stock so in effect the action is free floating as far as the cylinder is concerned.

That might cure the POI shift :)

[Gar73]

Sounds like a very good idea. I can work around the poi change for the time being as I know it happens so i know how to combat it. Its the little things now which added together are going to bring my scores up and a lot of it will simply be things that gain confidence rather than massive jumps forward technically. Shooting postions will also have to be improved upon. I am a very determind person and I wont stop until I achieved what I want to. This is also a thing which is going to help me. Its going to take time and practice and more money all of which I am willing to put in.:D

Plus I enjoy it and competition is another factor I like. Its good theres a wealth of experience on here and people willing to help and share it. Also good club members who are willing to help.

[Buzz Lite Beer]

I've reworked my stock, can get a £5 note to slide full length between stock and cylinder, also took a little off the underside of muzzle flip-pity doodah so I have total barrel isolation from the air cylinder. I always filled to 220 bar, and as Gar73 said first few shots were shooting high, tried a 200 bar fill and shots still a little high around 15-20 fps faster, perhaps like the rippers the MkIII's require a few pellets down them to attain their true consistency. The manual does state that the rifle can register 10 fps slower on the 1st shot after charging and this shot should be used to clear the excess pressure, of the 4 FTR's at our club 3 exhibit the high point of impact on 1st few shots after charging to varying degrees. Gar73 is just has the worst out of the bunch. (judging by the scores he puts in anyways)

[Gar73]

I dont know I showed you who was daddy yesterday. Oh and lets not forget last Sundays total domination of you on the HFT course. God help you if I get time to setup my s410k with that 8-32x44 scope. I cant wait for the HFT season as myself and the 410k combined are a force to be reckoned with.:D And certainly to much for you and your s400 classic.

[Buzz Lite Beer]

isolated incidences!!, every one has a purple patch, that was yours it matches your red nose.

[Gar73]

We will see. You have reached your peak. You broke under pressure yesterday and last Sunday it seems to be one of your common failings. Oh and dont be late for your lift next Sunday I would hate to have to leave you behind, ooops nearly forget bring some drain pipe and then your scope will look like mine with its new sun shade on.:D

I hope I beat you and Paul next sunday it would make my day. You pair of sausage jockeys.:D

Roll on Lner.

[Buzz Lite Beer]

knoblette

[Gar73]

Take the action out of the stock and have a look to see if there is a ridge at the front of the stock. If there is then get a suitable bit of round something (broom handle?) and some sandpaper and remove the ridge. Keep remounting the action into the stock until you can get a very thin bit of paper between the cylinder and the stock so in effect the action is free floating as far as the cylinder is concerned.

That might cure the POI shift :)

Job done. There was some slight rubbing between the cylinder and front of the stock. I can now slide a piece of A4 all the way down with no contact. Thanks for that tip every little helps.:D

[Gar73]

knoblette

Your rifle is going at the back of the boot near the boot catch I will try not to slam the boot down to hard.:D :p

[Buzz Lite Beer]

Job done. There was some slight rubbing between the cylinder and front of the stock. I can now slide a piece of A4 all the way down with no contact. Thanks for that tip every little helps.:D

oh dear, thats all your clicks well out now, numpty!

[Gar73]

oh dear, thats all your clicks well out now, numpty!

You **** the action and the scope are still in corralation. I'll simply re-check my 35yards and re-set if required and the clicks either way for distances will remain the same. Anyway do one Troll. :p

[Buzz Lite Beer]

Job done. There was some slight rubbing between the cylinder and front of the stock. I can now slide a piece of A4 all the way down with no contact. Thanks for that tip every little helps.:D

You **** the action and the scope are still in corralation. I'll simply re-check my 35yards and re-set if required and the clicks either way for distances will remain the same. Anyway do one Troll. :p

OK your right, I wouldn't even bother checking your zero!

[Gar73]

OK your right, I wouldn't even bother checking your zero!

I have some practice days in this week. Watch this space BOY!!!!!.:p:p

[Pavel]

Heh! You two should get married or at least a room. :D

Paul.

[Gar73]

Heh! You two should get married or at least a room. :D

Paul.

He's no good to me Paul I am straight and I dont like breaking in virgins anyway.:p

[Buzz Lite Beer]

you're about as straight as you can shoot! and as for virgin-ness Pavel got there before you.

[Pavel]

you're about as straight as you can shoot! and as for virgin-ness Pavel got there before you.


Strange, I don't remember breaking you in? :confused: Was I good? :D

[Gar73]

Keep talking ladies I'm gonna show both of you who's the daddy big balls at Lner next Sunday. With my Ftr and its extra mods being added this week. Just you 2 wait and see.:p :p

[Buzz Lite Beer]

Strange, I don't remember breaking you in? :confused: Was I good? :D

the best yet!!

[dbc-65]

Any way getting back to the "DAYSTATE FTR".

Dave

[bolted]

I suspect the flyers I have had may be due to the magazine. Has anyone used a mag with an FTR? Is it worth seating pellets inthe mag to uniform depth? I have changed the mod after seeing evidence of clipping at the muzzle end. Need a higher mag scope than 16x. Trying to look into that at the moment. Will see how it goes with single shot tray.

[mattinlondon]

I found that I had the occasional flyer (say one in 30 or so) with so many pellets, I tried Daystate FT 4.51 & 4.52, AA 4.52,JSB Exacts, Bisley everything, H&N most of them, in all I reckon Ive tried over 30 type of pellet thru my FTR. The top pellet for consistancy and accuracy are the Crossman Premier 7.9 in the box. If I do have a flyer with these its about 1/3 the distance of all other flyers. The great thing about the Premiers is they come in a box of 1250 and are all from the same machine so consistancy is great!!!

[Pazuzu]

Kiss my big hairy swingers boy.:p

Cheers, I've just had to wipe tea off my screen :D

P.

[S Hebby]

Originally Posted by Gar73
I cant explain it myself. But theres no way I can do a 232bar fill and the zero at 35yards be the same as before I charged the rifle. It would take 15-20 shots to settle and you can watch the pellets slowly crawl back down the target onto the original zero over the 15-20 shots.

Have you made sure that the muzzle break has enough clearance within the figure of eight to allow for the expansion of the cylinder when filling and contraction of the cylinder when in use? If its tight this would give you POI shift.
I can check this for you at the Redfearns shoot this Sunday if your going.

[Gar73]

The FTR has been retired from shooting for the meantime bar plinking and will be getting moved on for another rifle. Thanks for the offer though.