AA S400 2 years on

[Jamie Norton]

Mine is the carbine in .22. It's a joy to use and has never given any problems. I must have shot between 3000 and 5000 pellets through it based on my best recollection of how many tins I've bought. The standard AA silencer, though rather long, is effective and the whole thing has a quality feel about it.

The trigger is excellent, even making my HW77 Rekord unit seem crude in comparison, though the multiple and inter-related adjustments make ballsing it up very easy!

I was a little disappointed when I realised the lack of a safety, though this has been (sort of) addressed on the latest version. Now I've come to think that safe gun handling negates the need for a safety and I don't think I'd ever miss - or use - one now.

The only other niggle is the cocking action is quite stiff and therefore results in considerable movement when reloading while still on aim as you brace the gun against your shoulder. I've no doubt this could be improved by a competent gunsmith and I beleive that BTAS do this as part of their retrofit of their patented regulator. This is an expensive option though.

Being a .22, the pellet drop after 40 yards (I zero at 30) is considerable. Beyond 45 yards its virtually vertical! But the same would be true of any 12lbft gun using the same pellet - in this case 16.25grain Air Arms Field. Speaking of power, the most useable shot range is between about 170 bar down to 120 or so. This gives around 40 to 50 useable shots in the 11.5 to 12lbft range. Muzzle energy noticeably drops above or below this range, interestingly by over 1 lbft at 190 bar. As you can no doubt tell, I'm a bit anal about measurements and stats; in fact, I enjoy this as much as actually shooting.

This particular gun will shortly be up for sale as I'm about to take delivery of a BSA Superten. More of that later. I these reviews are a great idea and far more useful to us shooters than the sycophantic drivel we get from the magazines whose sole purpose seems to be to shift stock for the manufacturers and importers.

[heeby]

This particular gun will shortly be up for sale as I'm about to take delivery of a BSA Superten. More of that later. I these reviews are a great idea and far more useful to us shooters than the sycophantic drivel we get from the magazines whose sole purpose seems to be to shift stock for the manufacturers and importers.




is this supposed to be ironic:D :D
mark

[Enthusiast]

The only other niggle is the cocking action is quite stiff and therefore results in considerable movement when reloading while still on aim as you brace the gun against your shoulder. I've no doubt this could be improved by a competent gunsmith and I beleive that BTAS do this as part of their retrofit of their patented regulator. This is an expensive option though.



If you put your thumb on the back of the action you can work the bolt with 2 fingers - push with your thumb, pull with your fingers, makes life a lot easier.

Richard

[Jamie Norton]

No irony intended. When it comes to reveiwing products I think honesty really is the best policy. The Airgun mags seem to have an editorial policy of never saying anything negative about any product. The patronising and self-important Terry Doe seems the worst for this, but they're all much the same. The mags are therefore pretty much useless to any potential buyer. In the long run I believe this is also bad for the trade as manufacturers don't get the chance to correct and improve any areas that come in for criticism - instead, they'll have to wait for an angry customer response. Just compare the journalistic style of airgun mags to others such as computer or motorcycle magazines and the difference is obvious to anyone.

Safe and Happy shooting to all.

[Jamie Norton]

Thanks, Richard. I'll give that a go. I reckon it may be possible to reassemble the mechanism with more lube and maybe a lighter spring - I'd have to have a closer look. To be honest, it's not that big a problem, but often the smallest things make the biggest difference (that's what I keep telling my girlfriend anyway) and an easier action would add to the pleasure of shooting it.

[Rapidnick]

No irony intended. When it comes to reveiwing products I think honesty really is the best policy. The Airgun mags seem to have an editorial policy of never saying anything negative about any product. The patronising and self-important Terry Doe seems the worst for this, but they're all much the same. The mags are therefore pretty much useless to any potential buyer. In the long run I believe this is also bad for the trade as manufacturers don't get the chance to correct and improve any areas that come in for criticism - instead, they'll have to wait for an angry customer response. Just compare the journalistic style of airgun mags to others such as computer or motorcycle magazines and the difference is obvious to anyone.

Safe and Happy shooting to all.

That is a bit strong isn't it?:( Terry is one of the nicest, most helpful, least patronising and self important men you could possibly meet. He has also done so much for airgun shooting that it is impossible to over-emphasise his influence. To insult him in this way on open forum is not very edifying which prompts me to ask if he has done you any personal harm to warrant that comment? If he hasn't I really do suggest that you retract what looks to me-and I'm sure to others- like a gratuitous insult.:mad:
However, I do not disagree with your basic argument about reviews. ALL specialist magazines tend to find good things to say about the products under review. If they didn't they would be out of business.The economics of advertiser power are such that we all take any review with a large bag of salt.

[Enthusiast]

That is a bit strong isn't it?:( Terry is one of the nicest, most helpful, least patronising and self important men you could possibly meet. He has also done so much for airgun shooting that it is impossible to over-emphasise his influence. To insult him in this way on open forum is not very edifying which prompts me to ask if he has done you any personal harm to warrant that comment? If he hasn't I really do suggest that you retract what looks to me-and I'm sure to others- like a gratuitous insult.:mad:


I'm with Rapidnick here, I was surprised by your comments about Terry - he is a very well respected member of this forum, the shooting community as a whole and bends over backwards to help anyone.

I'm not going to get into the review debate other than to say if you read them carefully you can pick up a lot more than you do by just scanning. Haven't got it to hand but a recent review by Tim Finley on an Anics pistol(I think) is a case in point.

Richard

[Jamie Norton]

Opinions differ, and I respect you yours. I must say I have never met Terry Doe and so have no reason to disagree that he comes over as a nice man. My criticism is of his writing style, which to me, is patronising and self-important. I also think it is contrived and 'padded out' simply to fill magazine space. The offensive part, however, is the sucking up to the manufacturers and importers such that the reader cannot tell the difference between 'reviews' and advertiements. To me, this appears fraudulent and is a journalistic abuse of privelege. I don't agree that all magazines do this. I read magazines on a wide range of subjects and most will openly criticise products they don't like. They carry out comparison tests and even rate the contenders by placings. When has an airgun magazine ever had the courage to do this? They don't even carry out standardised tests to establish benchmarks for things such as accuracy and power consistency. This is an outrageous ommission for a publication claiming to represent airgun shooting. I can't imagine the advertisers are overjoyed either, having to pay twice because two magazines are printed, despite there barely being enough material to support one. I still say that the magazine publishers' representation of airgunning is apalling and I maintain that this editorial attitude is ultimately a disservice to everyone.

[Jamie Norton]

Opinions differ, and I respect you yours. I must say I have never met Terry Doe and so have no reason to disagree that he comes over as a nice man. My criticism is of his writing style, which to me, is patronising and self-important. I also think it is contrived and 'padded out' simply to fill magazine space. The offensive part, however, is the sucking up to the manufacturers and importers such that the reader cannot tell the difference between 'reviews' and advertiements. To me, this appears fraudulent and is a journalistic abuse of privelege. I don't agree that all magazines do this. I read magazines on a wide range of subjects and most will openly criticise products they don't like. They carry out comparison tests and even rate the contenders by placings. When has an airgun magazine ever had the courage to do this? They don't even carry out standardised tests to establish benchmarks for things such as accuracy and power consistency. This is an outrageous ommission for a publication claiming to represent airgun shooting. I can't imagine the advertisers are overjoyed either, having to pay twice because two magazines are printed, despite there barely being enough material to support one. I still say that the magazine publishers' representation of airgunning is apalling and I maintain that this editorial attitude is ultimately a disservice to everyone.

[starrysmoothhound]

oh well, you dont have to buy them do you, i guess they are focused on the younger airguner, someone who wants the basic info pictures and hard facts.
i have to laugh at your description of terry doe, its the complete opposite of the truth.:)

[Rapidnick]

Opinions differ, and I respect you yours. I must say I have never met Terry Doe and so have no reason to disagree that he comes over as a nice man. My criticism is of his writing style, which to me, is patronising and self-important. I also think it is contrived and 'padded out' simply to fill magazine space. The offensive part, however, is the sucking up to the manufacturers and importers such that the reader cannot tell the difference between 'reviews' and advertiements. To me, this appears fraudulent and is a journalistic abuse of privelege. I don't agree that all magazines do this. I read magazines on a wide range of subjects and most will openly criticise products they don't like. They carry out comparison tests and even rate the contenders by placings. When has an airgun magazine ever had the courage to do this? They don't even carry out standardised tests to establish benchmarks for things such as accuracy and power consistency. This is an outrageous ommission for a publication claiming to represent airgun shooting. I can't imagine the advertisers are overjoyed either, having to pay twice because two magazines are printed, despite there barely being enough material to support one. I still say that the magazine publishers' representation of airgunning is apalling and I maintain that this editorial attitude is ultimately a disservice to everyone.

Firstly perhaps you would be good enough to fill in your profile?
Secondly, it isn't a matter of my 'opinion' against yours. You described Terry as 'patronising and self important' in a way that was not JUST referring to his reviewing and writing style. As you are a new member on here perhaps I could suggest, in the interests of 'harmony', that you have the grace to reword your post so it is clear to the least literate member of the bbs that you are not describing Terry as a person but -if you must-just criticising his reviewing style which I agree you have every right to do.

[peter5761]

I got Elmor to make this cocking bolt, makes life a lot easier,as you are pulling straight back on the bolt.:rolleyes:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/peter5761/DSCN2857.jpg



elmor JAKENGINEERING@aol.com

[Jamie Norton]

I seem to have ruffled a few feathers here, but it was never my intention to cause offence. I think it is clear that my comments about Mr Doe are entirely from the point of view of his writing. I have already said I don't know him and have never met him. I only mentioned his name in the broader context of my criticism of the airgun press and I wouldn't have mentioned him at all if I'd realised this was his fan club. As I said, I am quite prepared to accept he is a nice bloke to meet. I have no reason to doubt that he is helpful and certainly don't doubt his devotion to the airgunning cause. Hell, for all I know maybe he dons a cape at night and fights terrorists and peadophiles. But the fact is I find his reviews and articles patronising and self-important with a tendency to 'pad out' and overstate the obvious. I also remain of the opinion that a journalist working on a consumer publication has an obligation to tell it like it is. Any downplaying or ommisions of shortcomings in the product constitutes a lack of journalistic integrity and, in my view, is a deceipt. This applies to all areas of review whether it be air rifles, washing machines, cinema, anything. How would you feel about a food critic that only gave good reviews to restaurants that gave him free food?
I must also disagree with you, Rapidneck, about the economics of consumer magazines. It is circulation, not ****-kissing, that brings in advertising revenue. I know I'm not alone in thinking the airgun press is poor and sells us short - most of the people in the 2 clubs I shoot with seem to feel the same. I don't know of any that subscribe to these mags which is astonishing considereing the time and money they spend on their sport. I believe there is a big market for a properly and imaginatively presented airgun mag that caters for the consumer rather than the trade. That's why I suggested the importance of posting our own reviews on this site, which was where all this started.
I think Terry is an administrator on this site so if you are reading this and YOU consider my remarks personally offensive, then please accept my apologies, but if you're half the man these people reckon you are I think you'll realise my criticism is professional rather than personal.

The only reason I have not completed my profile is that I haven't yet worked out how to.

[Jamie Norton]

[QUOTE=peter5761;1622869]I got Elmor to make this cocking bolt, makes life a lot easier,as you are pulling straight back on the bolt.:rolleyes:

Peter, I'm intrigued by the custom bolt which looks great, but I don't know how you get around the need to lock it down by turning it. I once made the mistake of firing mine without turning it down and I got an eyeful of air and lead for my trouble. I also think my bolt must be stiffer than yours (ooh er, missus) or I'm weaker because the smaller size would make hauling it back even harder.

[Rapidnick]

I must also disagree with you, Rapidneck, about the economics of consumer magazines. It is circulation, not ****-kissing, that brings in advertising revenue. I know I'm not alone in thinking the airgun press is poor and sells us short - most of the people in the 2 clubs I shoot with seem to feel the same. I don't know of any that subscribe to these mags which is astonishing considereing the time and money they spend on their sport. I believe there is a big market for a properly and imaginatively presented airgun mag that caters for the consumer rather than the trade. That's why I suggested the importance of posting our own reviews on this site, which was where all this started.

The only reason I have not completed my profile is that I haven't yet worked out how to.

Firstly apologies for selective quoting from your post.

To complete your profile click on 'user cp' at the top left of the page. I think you'll find it straightforward from there.

Regarding your comments on the economics of the airgun press I think you will find that as airgunning is very much a minority sport, the 'comics' as they are affectionately known are very dependent on the regular advertisers for their survival. It is hard to see how circulation could be grown much given the state of shooting sports in this country.They cannot in any way be compared with the computer and motorcycle publications. If you think there is a big market for a more 'objective' policy, then fine. I think you are wrong-the biggest UK forum for objective reviews and critical comments is on here-the airgunbbs rather than in magazines. Stick around and you will see what I mean. If you have a technical query, post it and see how long you have to wait for advice. A few minutes only-it is truly unbelievable.:D
Most of us on here agree with you that the comics are pretty much a waste of time. I personally buy them every so often only so I have an up to date price list handy.
I also agree that many of the reviews in the comics are seen as less than 'objective' and also that is a real pity. Terry however,I find enjoyable to read-and always have done for many years before I joined the bbs. I genuinely cannot see the qualities you do in his writing style.

[peter5761]

[quote=peter5761;1622869]I got Elmor to make this cocking bolt, makes life a lot easier,as you are pulling straight back on the bolt.:rolleyes:

Peter, I'm intrigued by the custom bolt which looks great, but I don't know how you get around the need to lock it down by turning it. I once made the mistake of firing mine without turning it down and I got an eyeful of air and lead for my trouble. I also think my bolt must be stiffer than yours (ooh er, missus) or I'm weaker because the smaller size would make hauling it back even harder.

If you think about it,On the std Item, you are imparting a Slight side force on the Bolt as you pull back,As the S400 has a thin dia Bolt this is flexing,adding to an already stiff action.On my XM 100 this Bobbin type was Std,As for locking it down It becomes a natural action as both my guns have this Handle.
If I can remember Elmor made this for about £10-15 but don't quote me.

[Jamie Norton]

Rapidneck, thanks for the tips on updating my profile, though I had already addressed this omission following your earlier admonishment (can't help feeling people may only be looking at it after asking 'who is this ar**hole, though!)

I have considered your argument about the airgun press's dependence on their advertisers carefully and, in particular, the limitations of circulation based on a minority sport.
It would be interesting (to me if no-one else) to know how many airgun enthusiasts there are in GB and how this relates to the circulation figures of the comics so I will try to get this info.
I take your point about the comics being dependent upon the advertisers but this is a two-way street. If you are in the business of selling a product, whatever it is, you will want to spend your advertising budget where it is most effective, and in terms of magazine advertising, this is entirely based on circulation, whatever the product or publication.
Although you say that the airgun press cannot be compared to the motorbike press, these do, in fact, have much in common: both are minority interests, both are seen by some as anti-social, and both are under constant threat of legislation. In motorbikes, all the manufacturers build a product and pitch it against the competition. The mags then test them and give their verdicts. If yours comes out tops - congratulations, you'll be rewarded in sales figures; if not then at least you'll know where you need to improve for the next round.
Imagine if this were the case for airguns. Competition produces improvement and advancement which is better for the consumer (just look at the commie airguns for an ilustration).
I know you think that the airgun press is beholden to the manufacturers/importers/retailers, but honestly mate, they are not. There are only 2 dedicated airgun mags and both of these are produced by the same publisher (where else would the advertisers go?) - they have the luxury of a virtual monopoly. As long as they let the manufacturers and importers 'off the hook' they allow them to provide us with overpriced / under quality merchandise. So much more could be done. From a manufacturing and distribution point of view PCPs could be offerred at half the price they are. Plinkers, based on design principles established decades ago should be widely available for £30 -50.
What I do agree on is that forums (fora?) such as this are currently the only way to get anything like an objective view of potential purchases.
I know we disagree about TD's writing style but hopefully this will not diminish respect between us and I won't ever mention it again. OK?

[Jamie Norton]

Rapidneck, thanks for the tips on updating my profile, though I had already addressed this omission following your earlier admonishment (can't help feeling people may only be looking at it after asking 'who is this ar**hole, though!)

I have considered your argument about the airgun press's dependence on their advertisers carefully and, in particular, the limitations of circulation based on a minority sport.
It would be interesting (to me if no-one else) to know how many airgun enthusiasts there are in GB and how this relates to the circulation figures of the comics so I will try to get this info.
I take your point about the comics being dependent upon the advertisers but this is a two-way street. If you are in the business of selling a product, whatever it is, you will want to spend your advertising budget where it is most effective, and in terms of magazine advertising, this is entirely based on circulation, whatever the product or publication.
Although you say that the airgun press cannot be compared to the motorbike press, these do, in fact, have much in common: both are minority interests, both are seen by some as anti-social, and both are under constant threat of legislation. In motorbikes, all the manufacturers build a product and pitch it against the competition. The mags then test them and give their verdicts. If yours comes out tops - congratulations, you'll be rewarded in sales figures; if not then at least you'll know where you need to improve for the next round.
Imagine if this were the case for airguns. Competition produces improvement and advancement which is better for the consumer (just look at the commie airguns for an ilustration).
I know you think that the airgun press is beholden to the manufacturers/importers/retailers, but honestly mate, they are not. There are only 2 dedicated airgun mags and both of these are produced by the same publisher (where else would the advertisers go?) - they have the luxury of a virtual monopoly. As long as they let the manufacturers and importers 'off the hook' they allow them to provide us with overpriced / under quality merchandise. So much more could be done. From a manufacturing and distribution point of view PCPs could be offerred at half the price they are. Plinkers, based on design principles established decades ago should be widely available for £30 -50.
What I do agree on is that forums (fora?) such as this are currently the only way to get anything like an objective view of potential purchases.
I know we disagree about TD's writing style but hopefully this will not diminish respect between us and I won't ever mention it again. OK?

[Rapidnick]

I find myself agreeing with much of what you write. I cannot disagree with your view that the importers are just as reliant on the airgun press as 'tother way round. I also fully agree that more 'objectivity' in reviewing would be a good thing. For that you need to scan the pages of this bbs. However, I disagree with your comparisons between motorcycle manufacturers and their airgun counterparts. By comparison, even the biggest airgun manufacturer or importer is tiny when compared with Honda, Suzuki etc. That be as it may-it actually reinforces your argument for greater objectivity.
Finally, I hope you won't mind me mentioning that you are duplicating your posts-once really is enough!:D

[Jamie Norton]

Rapidneck,
Firstly, apologies for delay in response. I did write one a few days ago, but it didn’t post – how frustrating.
I really do think that the economics of the publishing world are not as you imagine. The fact is that the advertisers – manufacturers, importers and retailers – are dependent on the ‘comics’. This is a two-way street. If you’re a manufacturer / retailer you will want to spend your advertising budget where it is most effective and, for magazines, this means the one with the biggest circulation in the market you are targeting. Honestly, the cost of advertising is based entirely on circulation figures. There is no room for dummy-spitting in business.
There are, in fact, comparisons to be made between the airgun and motorbike mags. Both cater to a minority interest where bad publicity is an ever-present threat. The main differences are 1. Motorbike mags are in competition with other mags and, 2. Motorbikes are very expensive. There are only two dedicated airgun mags and both are produced by the same publisher. Where else can the advertisers go? And if the manufacturers refused to provide their product for testing, who cares? Airguns cost hundreds, not thousands. Furthermore, unlike motorbikes, new airgun products tend to be tested only as they become available to the general public so the mag could simply go out and buy or borrow them.
All the motorbike manufacturers are competing with a very expensive (to produce) product in a tight and limited marketplace. You ask anyone into motorbikes and they will all be able to tell you which is the best – and why – in any market sector. So where does this leave the also-rans? It leaves them striving for improvements – based on the press’s criticisms – for the next round. Perhaps if the airgun press had taken a more honest stance on its reviews we would now be able to buy a quality plinker for £50 instead of a £100 and my £520 Superten would give me no concerns at all over its bolt action. In this context, maybe you should reconsider just how great a service Terry Doe and his ilk really have done for the airgun buying public.
As you say, I am new to this site and I don’t want to make enemies of anyone. I genuinely respect your views and your right to them, but please don’t stamp on me for highlighting a few issues that Terry Doe fans may not have considered.

[Jamie Norton]

I seem to be having a little trouble with my postings. I see now that the one that 'went missing' now appears - where has it been for the last 3 days? Maybe it's time I upgraded my Commodor 64

[Air Ranger 658]

Hi Jamie and others on this thread.

If we all agreed with each other all the time, what a boring World it would be eh!!!

I am new to this sport December 2006 to be exact, and find the 'comics' interesting to read, new tips articles etc.

I am amazed at the depth of Knowledge there is on this forum, and have collected a few tips/ideas along the way.

Whilst we all have Different views on Authors articles columns etc, I do feel that as in other sports, (Cycling where I have come from) sometimes products are 'talked up' at times instead of honest opinions on them.

That said, I look forward to reading the Air Gun comics each month, as I am just learning the sport.

Great though isn't it.

Cheers Doug