.22lr Chrono results for two recently reviewed rifles.

[leupy]

I know this section is really for firearm reviews, but I thought it's also the right place for ammo reviews in different guns, particularly two that have been reviewed here recently, the Sako Finnfire Varmint HB, and the Anschutz XIV carbine.

Anyone chrono'd their .22 Rimfire out there?

Not a practise a lot of people do I suppose, as firearm shooters aren't trying to cling to that lower edge of the 12ft lb legal thing, and are not concerned at all if they go over it, but I've made an interesting discovery (to me at any rate).

Following on from a "Favourite ammo" thread on the BBS a while ago, I noticed that quite a few users gave a special mention to Eley Subsonic Extra Plus, as being a particularly good round.
Subsonic HP in .22lr is my round of choice 99% of the time, so I have been on the lookout for these, but Eley is not a terribly easy brand to get in these parts.
However at the weekend I made the effort and finally got a brick.

A nicely made round, well finished and packaged, and not clagged with grease like the Winchester subs. I usually use.
Weather being pretty grotty outside (ain't Scotland wonderful), I decided to do a chrono test to establish muzzle velocity so I could get some idea of ballistic trajectory relative to my normal Winchester rounds.

Discovery number one, .........With my Sako Finfire varmint HB, .22lr ammo can quite easily give 100fps variation between shots . I observed this, with both Eley SS HP Extra Plus, and Winchester Super X SS HP.
This is in stark contrast for example to my FAC Ripley, which firing Crosman Premiers at 960 fps., had an MV variation of only 2 or 3 fps!

But then my chrono results for the two different rounds in two different rifles showed something quite amazing..

Sako Finfire Winchester 854.2 SD 45.9

Sako Finfire Eley 844.5 SD 53.4

Anschutz XIV Winchester 1043.4 SD 19.9

Anschutz XIV Eley 1007.6 SD 14.0


Each average figure was derived from only ten shots, but even so, I think the above shows the trend that the longer (tighter?) Sako barrel, saps more energy from the bullet and increases the standard deviation of muzzle velocity, compared to the Anschutz carbine. It also shows the Eley round is slightly slower than the Winchester, and possibly has a smaller SD.

But these figures also pose some other questions, eg the "legendary" performance reputation of the Sako vs. other guns.
I remember the phrase Baz used a short while ago re. the Sako Finfire Varmint "will outshoot other guns" he said!


Well explain this.
If it knocks 200fps off the MV of subsonics, and the MV variance is greater, ie the Sako is less tolerant of ammo variation, how can this be? <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_confused.gif" alt="Confused" width="15" height="22"><!--graemlin::confused:-->

Anyone else got relative figures to compare?

[This message was edited by leupy on 30 January, 2004 at 15:16.]

[This message was edited by leupy on 30 January, 2004 at 15:19.]

[Gren]

The answer is easy... delete the post, sell the Sako, and don't tell any one <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::D-->

I'm grateful for you to take the time to do that chrono work. I was looking for a recent article in Shooting Sports where they tested different 22LR ammo, when I find it I'll add their findings for comparison. They used an Anschutz IIRC, as they implied that it had the lowest SD with most rounds.

Gren.

[leupy]

Hi Gren. Yes I'd appreciate those figures when you find them.
I'm really confused now about ammo performance in different guns.

I know when you get a new firearm, one HAS to diligently go through a number of different ammo brands to find what suits the barrel. But my findings above seem to fly in the face of the accepted doctrine ........ shorter barrel = reduced muzzle velocity <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_confused.gif" alt="Confused" width="15" height="22"><!--graemlin::confused:--> <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_confused.gif" alt="Confused" width="15" height="22"><!--graemlin::confused:-->

[Russ6357]

Interested to see the massive velocity variations - a couple of questions:

Had you cleaned the barrel when changing brands. I have been told that this is a good practice.

However it only highlights something I have found previously and that is to get decent accuracy out of a .22RF you are best off with the match ammo - with only a very few exceptions in the HP world.

People talk about the need for a HP round in their .22RF and yet are happy to pop a bunny with a 10.5 fp .177 grain of salt (comparitave to the 40 grain .22 RF round anyway!).

Bottom line is I suspect we worry too much about the mechanics - must say I enjoy all aspects of the sport myself though.

[baz]

I have used a few XIVs, handy little guns but not as accurate as the Sako Varmint at long (for rimfire) ranges, as for the velocity figures yours are different to mine, although the Eley Plus do seem to use fast burn powder which will suit shorter barrels

Baz

[shootist]

I recall seeing a test done on the effect of barrel length -v- muzzle velocity, done by sawing an inch at a time off the end of a test barrel. Can't find it just now.

IIRC, the optimum lenth for subsonic ammo was about 19". The theory presented was that at that point there was no further gas pressure pushing the round, and therefore, the remaining barrel length was actually slowing the round up. Figures provided seem to corroborate this.

Obviously, other factors, such as twist rate and barrel tightness could also affect the final results.

The main interest though, should be accuracy and consistency. Both my .22rf rifles will give very high velocity with CCI Stingers, but will achieve in five minutes the accuracy that a shotgun will provide in one blast.

The poorest way of all to face life is to face it with a sneer.

[RichardH]

Leupy - From an old post just to show your not the only anorak

Rich

Rimfire Velocity/Accuracy Figures
Bought a pile of different ammunition today to run the the Sako and "Project 10/22"

5 Rounds of each fired over the club chrono, then 2 five shot groups fired at 25M indoor (no wind!) from a Sako Range with Tasco 10-40x50 & Parker Hale silencer off a Harris bipod.

Interestingly fitting the silencer moved the groups up by 2"

Velocity
CCI Stingers 1663-1675-1709-1652fps
Federal Gold Medal 1049-1014-1049-1043-1076fps
Remington Yellow Jackets 1394-1361-1373-1371-1380fps
Winchester Laser 1288-1333-1322-1326-1308fps
Eley HP Extra Plus 976-1000-984-973-977fps
Winchester Expert 1042-1046-1061-993-1058
CCI Green Tag - No more time
Winchester Wildcat- No more time
CCI Sub HP- No more time
RWS Sub HP- No more time
Federal Lightning- No more time
RWS Target Rifle- No more time
CCI CB Long- No more time
S&B CB Cap- No more time

Muzzle Energy
CCI Stinger 199ft/ibs
Federal Gold Medal 98ft/ibs
Remington Yellow Jackets 139ft/ibs
Winchester Laser 154ft/ibs
Eley HP Extra Plus 86ft/ibs
Winchester Expert 96ft/ibs
CCI Green Tag - No more time
Winchester Wildcat- No more time
CCI Sub HP- No more time
RWS Sub HP- No more time
Federal Lightning- No more time
RWS Target Rifle- No more time
CCI CB Long- No more time
S&B CB Cap- No more time

25M 5 Shot CTC Groups (Best of 2)
CCI Stinger - Prohibited <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_eek.gif" alt="Eek" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:-->
Eley HP Extra Plus .25"
Winchester Expert .14"
Federal Gold Medal .40"
Winchester Laser .37"
Remington Yellow Jackets .45"
CCI Green Tag - No more time
Winchester Wildcat- No more time
CCI Sub HP- No more time
RWS Sub HP- No more time
Federal Lightning- No more time
RWS Target Rifle- No more time
CCI CB Long- No more time
S&B CB Cap- No more time

When I get a few minutes I'll compare with the manufacturers claim and post the results.

Richard

[stevew]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shootist
[B]I recall seeing a test done on the effect of barrel length -v- muzzle velocity, done by sawing an inch at a time off the end of a test barrel. Can't find it just now.

IIRC, the optimum lenth for subsonic ammo was about 19". The theory presented was that at that point there was no further gas pressure pushing the round, and therefore, the remaining barrel length was actually slowing the round up. Figures provided seem to corroborate this.

QUOTE]
Was it Sam Fadala, "The Book of the twentytwo"?

[cliveward]

We did a test too and compared a XIV with a 10/22 and the XIV was considerably faster with subsonics (all we tested). Even with both guns having moderators the XIV was noticably louder.

I think the main reason is barrel length and less drag. Another factor could be that the XIV being based on a target rifle has a match chamber which may result in higher pressures..I'm no expert here though. IHMO the XIV has a tighter chamber as the extraction of fired cases can be a bit hit and miss if you let the cleaning regime lapse for a while. But I could ne totally wrong :)

The XIV is a great gun...very compact...****** expensive though seeing as you can get pretty much the same result with a CZ, a lathe and a pair of wire cutters :)


Cheers





Clive

[leupy]

You've lost me with the wire cutters Clive.:confused:
And an interesting point is that I often get ejection problems with the Sako, (well used to, till I fixed it) but nota da one with the Anschutz.

[RichardH]

Leupy - Wire cutters for clipping the trigger spring
;)