Springer shooting at 70 yards

[Davey K]

A bit of calm weather and a few hours to spare today so I though I’d have a crack at this long shooting lark. I’ve had a few goes before, but as I live right near the sea, calm weather isn’t often available. My efforts in the breeze have convinced me that long range shooting and strong wind do not mix.

I measured out 70 yards with my surveyor’s tape and got my ‘bench rest’ set up. It comprised two bags of B+Q lawn treatment (one on top of the other) and a gardener’s kneeling cushion on top of that. I got down prone behind my stack and eyed things up.

70 yards is a long way, but the image was nice and clear through the scope and it seemed quite do-able. Here I have to declare my belief, that to have any legitimacy, long range shooting must be (providing the weather conditions are suitable) consistent, accurate and repeatable. I’m not knocking anyone who uses the following method, but for me, aiming at a cross or dot and then landing the pellets a couple of feet away from what you are aiming at is of limited value. If you can’t predict where the pellets will land, you can’t hit a target and target shooting is about hitting a target! Also, shooting 20 or 30 pellets and then picking the 3 or 5 that group together nicely seems also to be a flawed technique as too much luck could effect such a small number of shots.

So my method was as follows, shoot 50 consecutive shots at 45mm circles (with 30mm black bulls) in five groups of 10 shots. I was trying to hit the target as many times as possible but not necessarily to group the shots. I had a wind flag, so when it moved I would make small adjustments to my point of aim with the intention of counteracting the wind and hitting the target.

The first group of 10 all went into the target (just!) with one shot wide to the left but just cutting the line to still score. The second group started really badly with a wild flyer almost off the page to the right but the nine shots that followed were all beauties, this would have been the best group of the day but for the flyer. The third ten all landed nicely enough but one went a bit on the high side but luckily it was still safely in, this turned out to be the best grouping of the day. As I stared shooting group four, the breeze picked up. It pushed the first two shots wide to the right and produced my second miss. I made an aiming adjustment and landed the rest of the shots safely in the target but somewhat scattered around. The final ten were up against an unpredictable and shifting breeze. I shot the first three with the same windage adjustment as the last target and saw them group tightly in a string low and left. I adjusted and landed the next two in the bull. The wind then freshened a bit and pushed the next five shots left. Three landed in a nice string inside the target but two missed wide and right. Very annoying!

By now I was knackered, I couldn’t believe the concentration that was required for this sort of shooting. My neck was sore and my eyes were watering from staring hard at the targets. But I was very pleased, out of the 50 shots, 46 had hit the targets they had been aimed at, with 30 of the 50 hitting the 30mm black bull’s-eye. As a percentage I had achieved a 92% hit rate against a 45mm target at 70 yards. If anyone had offered me that before I’d started shooting, I’d have had their hand off!

My cap is off to the guys who are getting results at 100 yards because 70 yards seemed a very long way to me. As I’ve said, I wasn’t really looking for groupings but even my best one (from target three) was around 35mm, so over the magic inch even at my reduced range. Judged on those criteria, my attempt was a failure and a failure 30 yards short of the mark! But I don’t look at it that way, and I’m still well pleased to be able to shoot a spring gun at this range and still have a high level of accuracy. BUT it’s all down to that wind, the barest whisper today was the difference between hitting and missing and even ‘perfect’ weather holds surprises that are guaranteed to have the long range shooter tearing his hair out!

I’ve included 2 pictures, one just photographed normally and one back lit so the holes are more visible. I’ll get a couple more pics put up tomorrow of my range and the set-up I was shooting from. My equipment was a v-glided hw97k in .177 flavour and running at 11.3 ft lbs, trigger was a v-mach semi-match unit with a flat polished blade and it all sat in a GINB l/h thumbhole stock. Scope was the MTC Viper 10X44, pellets were JSB 4.51 washed and lubed but not weighed and sorted, that’s probably why I got the flyer!

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc262/daveykenners/70yards.jpg

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc262/daveykenners/70yards2.jpg

[harrisP]

Thats good shooting with a springer.
I've included a picture of my springer shooting at 70yards, It was with a tx200 which was as smooth as a lubed up smooth thing and not to shabby in the accuracy stake.
Shame I sold it and also a shame I couldn't use it to its full potential.
The shots were taken resting off a fence post.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j257/paulphotoshop/DSC00534.jpg


Since when have images shown up like that?

[Jim McArthur]

Very good shooting all around! I love to see demos of how very accurate an air gun can be at long ranges. :)

Jim

[Cooperman]

nice going mate!

[Davey K]

Thanks for your comments all:)

I really enjoyed shooting the groups and it's good to put up a bit of info that might help anyone else looking for long range accuracy. Wind is the real killer and flat days are hard to come by once you get off the mainland UK and into the water!! The other hard bit when doing this with springers is re-setting after each shot. You've got to move position beacuse you've got to reload and not many folk can do that lying down - as a result you never get back into quite the same position as you had before and this makes consistency even harder.

As promised a couple of range pics to finish the story off

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc262/daveykenners/range.jpg

this is from just in front of where I was shooting from, my 'peg' for hft practice can be seen just in front. The range flag is on the right and the 70 yard target is the tall board at approximately 12.00. This zoomed shot shows more detail

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc262/daveykenners/range1.jpg

the white square on the tree trunk at the back is my next challenge, this is the 90yards mark and seems miles away when you're shooting into woodland like that because of the stange ways the light filters through the trees. I think I'm going to need to strap on my bushnell banner 6-24 for this one though..........:eek:

Report here if I manage it!

Cheers all:D

Oh and the gun that I shot is

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc262/daveykenners/hw97k.jpg

[Woodie]

good shooting there Dave, well done.

[flukeyluke]

Thats great shooting with a springer,its better than i could do with me pcp lol

[Herx77]

Nice one Davey,now why didn't you shoot like that when we went round?:D
HERX77

[Davey K]

Hi Mike! If I'd had my two bags of weedkiller to rest on at Popham, I'm sure I would have got a few more:D

Are you going to be trying out this long range lark? I'll bet you and your 77 could get some pretty impressive results;)

[Herx77]

Davey,
Have had some interesting 25mmish groups at 55yds lately,but gun doing my head in at comps.The Redfearns/Emley shoot was crap for me but the gun was doing nice tight groups at 45 and 55 yds;even spent some time with Tony Belas and the new Daystate on the Emley zero range.Both knocking the bird down at 55yds and resetting it,not bad for a HW77 against a pcp,but you have to work harder.
Coming over for the 'Gathering'.
HERX77 .

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

I had another go with the Longbow today at shooting over 68yds distance last time i used a pellet tin as a target and hit it 4 out of 8 with crossman VP's (walking to and from to stick up the tin)

This time i used plasterboard as a target and Webley Mosquito Express pellets shooting on 4x mag and aiming 4 dots high.

That group went 41mm ctc across .

I shot a second group and they were not as nice but still only 44mm ctc.
I cant belive how accurate this gun is for a springer.

Shots taken from the front seat of my van , gun rested in my palm with forearm against my leg (propped up on dash)

[Davey K]

Very nice springer shooting mate;) Gets quite addictive when you can see some good results:)

[Davey K]

Davey,
Have had some interesting 25mmish groups at 55yds lately,but gun doing my head in at comps.The Redfearns/Emley shoot was crap for me but the gun was doing nice tight groups at 45 and 55 yds;even spent some time with Tony Belas and the new Daystate on the Emley zero range.Both knocking the bird down at 55yds and resetting it,not bad for a HW77 against a pcp,but you have to work harder.
Coming over for the 'Gathering'.
HERX77 .


Springers eh! Just like mysterious and beautiful spanish women (the nice ones not the ones with beards:eek:), the moment you think you've got em worked out they bite you on the ass! It's why we love it! Good to hear you're still fighting the good fight Mike, Southern Hunters will be the next trip out for me, not sure what rounds yet but I'll hope to see you soon at one of those. All the best!

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

Its a pity there is not a club for this discipline of shooting OR maybe a blog hmm i just started a blog , Good to see some other results.Well done lads keep it up.
OH BTW i cant hit s**t with the lightning.

[Jon Budd]

OH BTW i cant hit s**t with the lightning.
Had to get rid of mine, no pellets struck in the same place twice...

[flims]

since you where determined to hit that black spot how did you compensate for drop? dialed in or hold over? with holding over its harder to group well, the aiming point is covered by the usually thicker reticle. when i zero for a particular distance i only place a dot, i dont bother about Drop or drift, i just want to see group capability.

Next i measure the drop and record the drift after having checked the wind with my wind meter. (if i dont have a wind meter with me i will right down surrounding conditions, leaves, trees swaying etc..). I then see what the drop translates to in MOA and i dial it in.

when i want to practice hitting a mark like you did, i will draw the Dot, dial in the Elevation and wind according to current conditions. i will try to come as close with that first shot. if i miss i will record by how much. This has worked out to 170 yards with my 0.25 FAC unless a strong gust blows it off target in the last 50 yards.

If you do try further distances you might have to correct windage prior to 1st shot as the wind maybe blowing it off target completely as happend in the last picture with Shot 1&2. i like to use 2ft cardboard or a 12x16" metal plate washed in white.

good shooting and keep it coming. it is difficult to find people interested in forming such a discipline for long range requires alot of dedication and many are not interested in all that. i have been trying to get more people into it but not much luck yet.

heres a record i kept this weekend while having a play with Fullmetaljacket's daystate. Not dialing in the shot was the limiting factor. im sure if i could dial it in and use of fine reticle, dat rig can do better.
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL888/4332777/9130733/290266276.jpg
the target
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL888/4332777/9130733/290268205.jpg

heres another one of my rifle in summer. i would never remember all that if i wouldnt write it.
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL888/4332777/9130733/290266275.jpg

[Davey K]

since you where determined to hit that black spot how did you compensate for drop? dialed in or hold over? with holding over its harder to group well, the aiming point is covered by the usually thicker reticle. when i zero for a particular distance i only place a dot, i dont bother about Drop or drift, i just want to see group capability.

Next i measure the drop and record the drift after having checked the wind with my wind meter. (if i dont have a wind meter with me i will right down surrounding conditions, leaves, trees swaying etc..). I then see what the drop translates to in MOA and i dial it in.

when i want to practice hitting a mark like you did, i will draw the Dot, dial in the Elevation and wind according to current conditions. i will try to come as close with that first shot. if i miss i will record by how much. This has worked out to 170 yards with my 0.25 FAC unless a strong gust blows it off target in the last 50 yards.

If you do try further distances you might have to correct windage prior to 1st shot as the wind maybe blowing it off target completely as happend in the last picture with Shot 1&2. i like to use 2ft cardboard or a 12x16" metal plate washed in white.

good shooting and keep it coming. it is difficult to find people interested in forming such a discipline for long range requires alot of dedication and many are not interested in all that. i have been trying to get more people into it but not much luck yet.

heres a record i kept this weekend while having a play with Fullmetaljacket's daystate. Not dialing in the shot was the limiting factor. im sure if i could dial it in and use of fine reticle, dat rig can do better.
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL888/4332777/9130733/290266276.jpg
the target
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL888/4332777/9130733/290268205.jpg

heres another one of my rifle in summer. i would never remember all that if i wouldnt write it.
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL888/4332777/9130733/290266275.jpg

Nice to hear from you Films - I've been following your shooting progress on this section - very impressive! I've also been very intersted in the detailed analysis and preparation that you put into your shooting. I have to say that you are very much further down the road of long range shooting than I have yet travelled but I think your methodology and approach do hold the key to understanding long range air rifle shooting as a discipline.

To date, I've used mildots to 'aim-off', this has been fine as, with a 35yrd zero, I've got enough mildots to shoot out to 80yrds. With a 10X mag scope, 70 yards has been about as far as my eyes work to shoot accurately at small targets, hence this being the distance I've shot to so far.

If I'm going to improve on my results thus far and get better groups at 70 yards and beyond, I know I need more magnification and I also need to update my methodology. I totally agree with you that measuring the wind effect and then dialing that into your scope is the best way to achieve top quality results.

I'm going to be getting a bit of new kit soon and hopefully I'll be able to let you know if the changes I make produce some good results. Keep posting yours - they make great reading for any other enthusiasts out there - hopefully this section will become more popular as the idea catches on a bit.

The great thing about long distance air rifle shooting is that it does not matter what kit you have - good groups at 60 yards with a .22 12 ft lb HW80 and a 3-9x40 scope are equally as impressive as good groups at 90 yards with a .177 Steyr and an FT mega scope - it's skill that is being demonstrated not kit quality.

All the best fella!:D

[flims]

hello there, thanks for your reply, its very encouraging. i have to mount my old scope on the rifle again as it was in for some servicing. i guess that turret going up and down 7 revolutions in a couple of seconds did take its toll on it after some years.
on the subject of magnification, i think 14x is good enough, i never use more than that not even to shoot at cigarette packet sized targets beyond 140yards. here where temperatures are usually soaring above 30deg Celcius mirage is a killer and high Mag is useless!

Remember with pellets unlike bullets you dont have a trail so spotting a shot is harder especially when they have relatively little energy. a wider field of you will offer you the possibility to catch the pellet arching its way to the target and more importantly till it gets to the target you can wait to see the puff which will help you correct for shot 2.
one thing i found realy neat especially here where limestone is plentiful is that on a hit limestone will send a puff of dust in the air. If you are careful enough you will see it blown/drift by the wind and you can tell how strong the wind is at target. It truly fascinates me at times to see that at target the wind might be 3x stronger. no wonder a Miss!!
i dont want to go in too much detail but watch the surrounding conditions, its amazing how much they can tell you especially the mirage on a sandy/dry soil field!

as a tracker can tell you things from the land and surroundings, a lng range shooter must keep an eye on surroundings. when you dont you will know because you miss!
keep it coming!

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

Had to get rid of mine, no pellets struck in the same place twice...
Hi guys
I have had a go at tuning the Lightning and it has improved it a bit.
Put a Venom st1 kit but the seal was a loose fit in the oversize cylinder so have now bought an unsized one from S.Pope and fitted that instead,gun feels much less Jumpy now.Not had chance to do any longrange work with it as yet as work has got in the way.
Keep it up lads

Tried the gun side by side with my s410 (it was dark so shot by lamp light) 43yds

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

Hi Guys
This was my 68yd group With the Longbow . Shot with not much wind on 3x mag Aimed 3 dots high.I shoot on 12ft power level and seem to get worse groups with more mag. Some laterall stringing not sure if thats me or wind

[Davey K]

Some laterall stringing not sure if thats me or wind

Most probably wind - as Flims points out, once you start to stretch the distance, even if there is no discernable wind at your firing point, there can be plenty closer to the target. Although it won't have the effect that wind at the muzzle has, it will still be enough to produce that kind of lateral drift. Try stringing up a hankie or similar material at the target - might help give you a read if there is no vegetation to assist you.

Good shooting!

[flims]

i agree with you. since you are doing this in what seems to be your own private place you can hang some ribbon along the way. closer to the ground the pellet seems to find less wind than high above so keep it as low as possible.if you shoot from an enclosed place like many you will not be aware of the gust. i use to shoot with my car parked behind me. the winds coming form 5 or 8 O'clock to me seemed non existant because the car was shielding me. i would wonder why my hits would be going slightly to one side.then i would stand up and realise that indeed there is a 4mile/hour wind which at longer ranges does have its effect.
remember these are pellets and unlike their big brother Blk Powders(big brother for they are also relatively slowmoving), they dont have the Huge mass to support them!

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

Might be wind i was shooting out the window of the van so would be sheilded
but also resting on bones would not help the cause , rested on a proper bench would have been better but i practice what i can use around the farm (not that i would shoot that far with the springer) might get a chance for a proper session soon with a mate.
Happy shooting guys.

[Snooper601]

70 yards seems possible with my HW80. I shot it at Lea Valley a few weeks ago while I was bedding it in after tuning it, 500 shots in an afternoon with a HW80:eek::eek::eek:

I was hitting small pieces of clays and shotgun carts at 65 yards almost every shot, and that was with only a 10mag scope on it.

Cheers

John

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

70 yards seems possible with my HW80. I shot it at Lea Valley a few weeks ago while I was bedding it in after tuning it, 500 shots in an afternoon with a HW80:eek::eek::eek:

I was hitting small pieces of clays and shotgun carts at 65 yards almost every shot, and that was with only a 10mag scope on it.

Cheers

John

Give it a go snooper and let us know how you got on the hw80 should be stable due to the weight , Bet your arm was sore cocking that beast 5oo times.

[Snooper601]

Give it a go snooper and let us know how you got on the hw80 should be stable due to the weight , Bet your arm was sore cocking that beast 5oo times.

Yup, it was still aching a week later when I did it's first HFT. :)

I started shooting the long stuff that day as I had shot most of the shotgun carts from 15 yards out and I was getting bored. I also managed to shoot some string at 20 yards that somone had suggested was for just that, unfortunatly after 3 direct hits in the same place, and cutting it, a voice piped up "who just shot my plumb. Bob?"
I owned up but felt very embarrased.:o

Good trick though;)

I'll try some long range groups when I get the chance.

Cheers

John

[radicalry00]

Did a bit of long (ish) range shooting today. I was over at a friends house and he has quite a large garden so we thought we'd have abit of target practice. We couldn't be bothered printing out/drawing our own targets so we just used some potatoes instead.
It was at a distance of around 80 yards (he has a big garden, I know, has a couple of football goals in it) and I hit the potato 10/10 shots. The taty was about 4cm x 4cm

I made a video of the first shot here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NDhLyrdSfHg

Seems to make quite an impact even though we're 80 yards away.

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

10 out of 10 is not bad shooting at 80 yds with a spud gun :p keep it up fella i had a 97k in .20 and loved it (alas it got stolen) now i don't seem to get much time to shoot but will have a go over the crimbo period.

[brisad]

:cool:love the you tube wind up!! notice a stick with the spud on?:p:p:p:D