68yds with the longbow

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

Can anyone explain this i had another go at 68yds this evening .
1st group shot on 9x mag 71mm (4shots)
2nd group the same settings 54mm (7shots)


3rd group on 4x 24mm (4 shots)
4th group on 4x 37mm (5 shots )

Now how comes on higher mag the groups are twice the size.
There was a head wind but it was fairly constant.
pellets used Webley Mosquito.

[Andy 01]

Hi.
I find this with all my shooting, the lower the mag, the tighter the groups :D
I now hunt on 5X, as its my most accurate. FT I still do at 40X.
I put it down to the lower wobble through the scope at the lower mag, enabling a tighter group. ;)

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

I usually leave my scope on 6x untill i am in the trees the back to 3x when hunting.Thinking about it those were the first shots i took so probably was just honing my self to the gun.

[JJSTEALTH]

hello mate,
it could be as the target is easier to see at higher mag,you don't concentrate as much (as your brain thinks its easier) ?

well thats what i find :o

JASON.. :)

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

Maybe JJ maybe , I think it's just when i am zoomed in the target seems to wobble a lot due to my poor 'spot weld' while shooting with my van based hold.
Nice to hear from you in a different venue bud.

[ratgunner]

Can anyone explain this i had another go at 68yds this evening .
1st group shot on 9x mag 71mm (4shots)
2nd group the same settings 54mm (7shots)


3rd group on 4x 24mm (4 shots)
4th group on 4x 37mm (5 shots )

Now how comes on higher mag the groups are twice the size.
There was a head wind but it was fairly constant.
pellets used Webley Mosquito.

Have found that the higher the mag the larger the wobbly factor, and correction when holding over or aiming off,
also if the scope don't quite suit??

Went from AGS 3x9x40 to Richter Optic 3x9x50, realising I aint no spring chicken and need all the help I can get within my small budget,
shifted to BSA Essencial 44x4x12 Bingo! a scope that suits both my eyes and wallet, shoot mine at 9x on both my HW 77K and Lightning XL both in .22in,

As for pellets, Accupel for the 77K and JSB's for the Lightning, Webley Mosquito's do not suit either.

[remorem2jh@supanet.com]

I had AGS 3x9x40 but did not like the wide dot spacing.
I have a Richter Optic 3x9x50 on the lightning.
got Bushnell Trophy's on the s410 and Longbow.
I had a BSA Essential 4x16 x 44 but never much liked all that manification .
I like the Trophy's best
How do you find your Lightning ? i find mine very jumpy with its Venom kit installed the Longbow is much easier to fire.
ATB Jamie.

[steve.wain]

Isn't parallax more critical at higher mags? Perhaps it's not spot on and causing the problem, mind you I wish I could shoot groups like that.

[gunpowerchris]

i reckon on the higher mags you see the cross hairs moving more so you over compensate or try harder and thats where it all goes wrong ;)

[somnophore]

68 yards, you are basically lobbing a pellet at that distance, i havent got a scope atm, im stuggling to get 30mm groups at 20 yards open sights, but just got my webley stingray, so still improving, not sure how a scope would work in that, at it has a large precision front sight.

[Davey K]

[QUOTE=somnophore;2355427]68 yards, you are basically lobbing a pellet at that distanceQUOTE]

The trajectory is more pronounced yes, but a 8.4 grain .177 pellet fired by a gun running at 11.3 ft lbs still has over 5 ft lb of energy left at 68 yards. The pellet is still being powered and is in stable and predicatable flight - in the absence of the environmental conditions that spoil long range groups, any good quality gun and pellet combination should still be able to group at this distance.

[Sharpshoot1995]

I have been shooting at targets and hunting with my HW80 and have always set my scope to 9X40, it goes down to 3X40. If it does really work (not saying your lying or anythng) what zoom should I put it on?

if it does work, no wonder I've been missing kill zones on quarry and paper quarry (targets with pics on e.t.c)

Thanks:)

[harrisP]

Just to clear one thing up,
If you are wobbling at 12X mag even if you wind it down to 3X mag you are still wobbling but you just don't notice it:rolleyes:.

[Kenman]

In two words Jamie......parallax error!

ATB

Ken

[Gren]

Kenman, I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I'd appreciate your explanation of the optical issues involved....

I have also found tighter groups on lower mag (within reason) and I think it's down to eye/brain/hand coordination. I believe that there is a subliminal mechanism that works well so long as the image is apparently stationary, but is defeated by the visible wobble at higher mag.

It would be interesting if lots of people did an experiment of using say 5, 10 and 20 mag at 35yds (each using their same gun obvoiusly) and posted their group sizes. The evidence should speak for it's self.

[Pod]

Potential for parallax error should be reduced on higher mag as the exit pupil diameter is smaller :confused:

I gave up on trying to understand scopes - I had one that when on either minimum or maximum mag worked fine and allowed good groups to be shot. On any mag inbetween the groups opened right up. Never did work that one out.

Prefer fixed mag now :D

[Kenman]

"Kenman, I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I'd appreciate your explanation of the optical issues involved...."

Quite easy really, Jamie is a good mate of mine.

His 'scope is a Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40mm that as supplied is parallaxed for 100yards. He adjusted this down to 35 yards....& is now shooting at 70 yards. So, parallax error!

ATB

Ken

[Stoogey]

the images blurr out on higher mags , with zoom scopes theres a little error to match so its down to actual quolity of scope-n-lens.

as far as i know a fixed mag scope is better than a zoom for above reasons.

if your looking through 12-15 lenses, a little error on each is a huge error.. if the guns not centered at the distance i think its well posable your looking 'sideways' through all those lenses so an error must occur. Now magnify it?

[Keith Oakes]

I use a 10x44 on my rifle & I have hit 1in targets at 50yds consistently using 16gr Logun Penetrators so I reckon it's just that you get on best with your mag at that setting. Everyone has different preferences so that might be yours. Failing that, it could just be parallax error as previously stated. Also, you might have a few dodgy pellets in that particular tin. Having said that, shooting at them sort of ranges with a 12ftlbs rifle there is a good chance there is going to be incosistencies with the POI as the pellet will have lost alot of its strike energy. I'm probably wrong but it might be worth looking into all the same. I hope that this is of some help.

Regards,

Keith

[50BMG]

How about this? It's only a theory but it makes some sense to me.
High mag = lots of more wobble. Your brain will tell you to release the shot the instant your eyes tell it you are right on target. Result more of a snatch on the trigger as you try to fire at that precise moment (even though you know you shouldn't) Snatched trigger = larger groups.
Lower mag = a lot less wobble. Less presure on your brian to say NOW the second your eyes tell it you are on target. So a much smoother release and a tighter group.
I also find lower mags give better groups. Although at anything beyound 50 yrds I don't think less than 12 x gives enough precision.