V22 - 22rf AR-15, first impressions

[Sid]

The V22 is a .22rf version of the AR-15 assault rifle, a dedicated upper receiver which mates to the standard AR lower

Check it out here if you haven't seen or read about it before (http://www.v22upper.com/)

My main interest in the gun is that it is just asking to be turned into an NV hunting 'weapons system' when fitted with a RIS rail system instead of the standard handguard, giving loads of options to mount illuminators, lasers, Gen III monoculars looking through a red dot sight or dedicated NV weaponsights etc etc

First impressions of it are :-

1) The trigger is diabolical, the bottom half of the gun is designed for combat use so it's got a very heavy pull. This needs some work

2) It will not cycle subsonic ammo. The bolt travels to the rear far enough to pick up another round and chamber it, but doesn't have the energy to recock the hammer. CCI Stingers cycle 99.9% of the time, everything subsonic I tried cycles 0% of the time. This needs some work too ;)

3) There isn't an automatic last round hold open for the bolt, or even a manual one

4) Ergonomics are superb, point and squirt

5) After 30 rounds, everything that could come loose did. I didn't buy my V22 from Southern Gun Company, but had a chat with them on the phone about the gun. They reckon to spend a couple of hours preparing each one before it's fit to be sent to a customer. I do believe them

6) It is fun to shoot with high velocity ammo - unlike the airgun style 'phut' of a moderated semi using subs, you feel like something is really happening when the trigger is pulled. Which is good, because you almost need two hands to pull it ;)

7) It is very well built and has a nice matt black finish with no ugly blueing or walnut anywhere :D
I'm a bit suspicious about the dimensions of the Picatinny rail on the receiver as a military issue AN\PVS-14 weaponsight mount wouldn't fit. But then I don't have a PVS-14 ( yet ;) ) so who cares. Everything else went on the rail without problems

8) Anyone without a screwcutting lathe and a desire to tear their new rifle apart 15 minutes after getting it out of the box will be disappointed to find that the muzzle isn't threaded for a moderator. Still, that's more work for honest salt of the earth gunsmiths, so it's a good thing really :D

That's about it for now, I'll do some accuracy tests next I think

[Guest]

Sid

I used one of these last year and found 'most' of the problems you describe.

Price was also a major consideration.

I shoot a SGC Speedmaster in .223 (looks like you're talking to Bob these days - you were not impressed with him last year:D , I have always found him to be very helpful).

I changed the awful trigger for a Jewel model for £200, it now has the finest trigger of all my (current) rifles. I say current as I am collecting a Tooley next week.

The hand grip also needs to come back about an inch so you can get correct finger placement on the trigger, you can buy a spacer to do this but I know not where, if you find one, let me know.

My barrel was threaded and fiited with a brake - I also have a T8 for it.

I do get sub .5 moa accuracy from it, but it is ammo fussy and COL is a problem due to the limiting factor of the magazine length.

Mine is strictly single shot, so I don't use Military RG ammo as extraction is 'very' tough.

Regarding Picatinny rail - mine has the 'high' one but it is too far back to mount a scope with the correct eye relief. I got around this by using a one piece US Optics mount, which I just 'hang' over the front, still plenty of grip and .223 recoil is negligible. I thought it would be perfect for NV kit, I must be wrong.

AR15 derivitives are nice guns - need some work on them to get them 'right', but it's always the one which attracts the most attention when my mates want a gander in my 'toy' cupboard.:)

Regards

Dave

[Sid]

Dave - thanks for the input, good stuff, appreciated :D

I've been messing about with the V22 some more :-

1) Accuracy with CCI Stingers is soup plate sized groups at 40 yards. Completely unacceptable. Winchester subs and Eley target ammo give almost air rifle accuracy however :D

2) I did my own trigger job, against all the advice floating about on the internet about the stock AR-15 trigger being un-tweakable.
I had swallowed those stories hook line and sinker but a phonecall to an experienced gunsmith mate of mine provided the reality check I needed, that I was being a big jessy and I should go ahead and do what I thought was right :D
The result is a much lighter pull, but it's still quite 'squashy' - the standard heavy pull disguises all the creep.
No way would it be in the league of your Jewell, but I'm happy enough as it cost me 'nowt apart from my time.
I'm toying with the idea of reducing the sear engagement by altering the bent on the hammer but, what worries me is that I can't check it once the trigger is installed and a new hammer is £30 if I screw up...

3) Cycling - I stoned and mirror polished the hammer, rear of the bolt where the hammer rides and the underside of the bolt that contacts the rounds in the mag. Did the feed ramp as well while I had the Dremel out. Lightened the hammer spring too, as far as I dare. Still won't cycle subs if the mag has more than two rounds in it. The Eley target works fine and is much quieter than the Stingers
Maybe I'll start drilling holes in the bolt next to lighten it :eek:

[RichardH]

Sid

The Bremmer AR15 I have had exactly the same problems, the trigger was sorted with a JARD (www.jardinc.com) multiadjustable single stage job which is lovely but a bitch to set up initially $120 ordered from the states.

Mine cycles subs but has a totally different bolt system as its based on the old US Army M261 .22lr conversion unit, if you have a square face to the rear of the bolt (IIRC) grinding a radius onto it allows the hammer to move back smoothly without the sudden "stop" that occurs with a flat bolt, this will also lighten the bolt very slightly, simpler still is removing a couple of coils from the recoil spring. These are lessons painfully learnt with a couple of 10/22's which have a similar blowback system.

Is there no flashhider thread on the muzzle? Mine has a UNEF thread for the flashhider, Jackson rifles will sell you a SAK silencer with the UNEF thread which should drop straight on....

I'm thinking of switching to a V22 to get away from the carry handle and fixed 10 round mags, do the 30 rounders cycle well on yours?

Richard

- Dont worry about screwing the hammer I've a few spare bits and pieces for the AR lowers here

Also look at www.targetshooting.co.uk or www.ar15.co.uk for bits and pieces

[Sid]

Hi Rich and thanks

The rear of the bolt was already radiused, I just stoned it smooth and polished it.
I think I may lighten the bolt next, the twin recoil springs on the V-22 are pretty weak and don't always provide enough energy to chamber a round manually unless you are really careful to pull the bolt right to the rear of it's travel. If I wanted to perform a forward assist every time I cocked a weapon I'd buy an SA80 ;) :D

The bolt contacts a pin right at the last 10mm or so of it's travel which transfers through to the original .223 recoil buffer in the buttstock and slows it down. Nice feature which will give a bit of leeway if I do lighten the bolt a bit too much.

My V-22 has the ten rounder, I'll buy a 30 soon ( for fun ) - but I'm developing it as a night hunting gun and the banana clip hanging down from the magwell will get in the way as you must have found out with your Rugers.

The standard V-22 doesn't have a thread on the muzzle at all. I cut mine 1\2" 20 tpi ( the steel which the barrel is made from is fairly tough and needs a little bit of care ) - I might machine a flash hider up just for a laugh. Currently it's wearing a homebuilt reflex silencer which comes back all the way to the front sight block and adds maybe 3 1\2 or 4" to the OAL.

Talking of the front sight block, I have attached weaver rails either side and I have nearly finished a dedicated Corsak laser mount for the underside. I've got the new HTH 'tactical' IR laser designator and illuminator on test as well, but the prototype isn't much cop - it's much too bright to use with Gen III goggles.
When I moaned about this to Vladimir he said ( tongue in cheek ) " Your night vision is too good " :D

I would recommend the V-22 anyway, to someone who is willing to put a bit of work in...

[RichardH]

Sid

Sounds like a very interesting proposition when finished, the CZ barrels on the V22 are reckoned to be very good.

The big mags on the Ruger are a huge hassle in a vehicle but great fun at the range, is the CZ 30 round job an aluminium box type like the 10 rounder but with a Ceiner banana clip fitted inside?

One other interesting feature of the Jard trigger is the large disconnector adjustment screw, if you are careless here things get very interesting;)

When you get it sorted i'd love to have a look at yours with a view to kitting my new one out for late night bunnies fancy a swap one afternoon?

http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00217181f00000096.jpg

[Cheeto]

I bought a V22 recently from SGC.It is was very accurate and cycled subs reasonably well.Accuracy is crap now because I had it screw cut and the gunsmith hasn't cut it straight so I will have to have it redone after Minsterley II.It,s fine without the moderator fitted.
It does have one VERY annoying fault which is also quite dangerous.It doesn't always seat a round fully into the chamber and although it shouldn't happen the round can still be fired even though the bolt isn,t fully closed:eek: the exposed rear section of the round ruptures and sends a nasty blast out of the side of the gun.The front section of the round is then stuck in the chamber. It also hurts your ears.I have no confidence in it for rapid fire and have to check the bolt position prior to each shot,which defeats the SLR function. :mad:

My trigger was tweaked by Bob and is "ok" but could be much better.

I would love to know what is causing the fault.I may just send it back to SGC.

[Sid]

Some V22 pics, with small silencer rather than monstrous reflex one

Daytime setup (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.whittman1/v22left.jpg)

Homebuilt QD scope mount (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.whittman1/v22scoped.jpg)

Night setup with PVS-7 Gen III goggles (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.whittman1/v22nv.jpg)

Tactical IR laser illuminator\aimer (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.whittman1/v22illum.jpg)

Sight block with weaver rails added to side and dedicated mount for Corsak (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.whittman1/v22sightblock.jpg)

Sight block with Corsak and Surefire (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.whittman1/v22sightblock2.jpg)

Cheeto - there couldn't be a much easier barrel to thread than the V22's it's not like it's tapered or anything. Still, everyone screws up now and again, I certainly do :D
My rifle sometimes shows the same loading fault as yours, but only when cocking manually and only when using CCI ammo which seems to be a tight fit in the chamber.

Rich - the 30 rounder is an SGC conversion of an Atchission ( spelling ? ) magazine. It would be good to have a swap sometime, I do love black rifles :D

[RichardH]

You must be knee deep in aluminium swarf now Sid!

As soon as I've got mine back from the gunshop I'll give you a shout and we'll have a shoot and a glass or two (they have managed to get a steel screw stuck in the aluminium lower - where the pistol grip bolts in, seems this will be tricky to extract)

I'm also ordering a custom .223 straight pull flat top with a 1-7 barrel and moderator for a bit of foxing by the time the Bremmer is fixed I might also have that.

Richard