Theoben Rapid more accurate when single loaded?

[Guesty]

I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect that my .22 FAC Rapid Mk2 is more accurate when single loaded -i.e. NOT using the magazine.
Have any of you guys noticed this with your Rapids?

[wrarapid]

i have noticed the pellets squeezed slightly in the mag when in my hand,maybe a little too much pressure on the spring. that said mine is super accurate never noticed any probs. try another mag if you can borrow one

[Chandlers]

Interesting thougt, didn't even know you could get a single loading option.
Do you think the mag's damaging the pellet somehow when it's loaded then ?

[barrel]

Think this is a bit of an urban myth i have not noticed any difference

[wrarapid]

i notice aa fields(softer) can get a squeeze. bis mags it has no effect on.you can use the loading tray from a mfr i think.is the magazine new or well used???

[Guesty]

I have backed off the spring tension as much as possible in my magazines so they grip each pellet less tightly, but the pellets are getting a bit damaged. Certainly, if I push JSB clones (AA Fields or Daystate FTs) though the magazines with a pencil or similar, I can see marks on the edge of the heads and skirts. Harder pellets such as H&N Baracuda or Bismags don't seem to be effected as badly, but I prefer the flatter shooting JSBs.
I think if the pellets are being damaged, the accuracy difference will only be evident over longer ranges -but that's when the wind steps in and confuses everything! Maybe someone has done some definitive long range testing in a wind free environment?

[verminhunter]

I have never noticed any diffrence with the mfr FAC .22 in single load or mag fed the accuracy is the same. Aslo in my mk2, no diffrence in single or mag fed in .25.

Becareful though, the loading probe is aliend perfectly with the pellet and the breech of the barrel so pellet is loaded properly, as out of aliement can distort the pellet and can cause accuracy problems at long ranges.

[johnny k]

Interesting thougt, didn't even know you could get a single loading option.
Do you think the mag's damaging the pellet somehow when it's loaded then ?

I had two 0.20 mags for my mfr, the springs were wound so tight everytime it indexed the pellets had bent skirts. Took the mags to bits and unwound the tension and hey-presto no more bend skirts.

[Rapidnick]

I have noticed it very occasionally with .177 but not with .20 or .22. I suppose it is because the seventeen .177 pellets are crammed in a bit more making perfect rotation and probe alignment that bit more sensitive.
The latest edition of the Rapid has a scalloped loading port a la MFR to enable easy single shot loading. Arguably it is a major improvement in the design of the Rapid receiver which doesn't get as much attention as it deserves.
Single loading is more difficult with older Rapids but not impossible unless you have very fat fingers indeed.:eek:

[DEL67]

I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect that my .22 FAC Rapid Mk2 is more accurate when single loaded -i.e. NOT using the magazine.
Have any of you guys noticed this with your Rapids?

Yup, the accuracy deteriorates quite a bit when i use the mag. on my .177 MK1 Rapid, it's the new type so single loading is easy with the scalloped action. I use A.A.Fields and i think maybe the spring tension is too much and bending the skirts. It doesn't feel very smooth either when the probe pushes through the mag. so maybe something is not in line. I should get it looked at really otherwise it's a waste of £50. I know the rifle got it's name because of it's speed of reloading (or probably did) but compared to a mag. that is indexed by the gun it feels too fast and snappy. Also if you don't shoot all 17 i feel as though i have to empty it by hand so as not to leave the spring under pressure, rather than just take it out.
Saying all that about the mag. the rifle is superb.
Derek.

[mickc]

I stripped my .20 magazine to clean/service it,anyway when I re assembled it I set the tension so it wasnt as strong as it had been before.I suppose I only done it for piece of mind after reading a few posts on different forums regarding Rapids being more accurate when single fed.I also have the single shot loader but these are far to fiddly and awkward (I even managed to get a pellet which fell back down into the bolt into the action.I had to remove the trigger cartridge to get it out).I mostly use the magazine but if I have to single load now I just place the pellet straight in the barrel.

ps there is a sticky in the Technical section on the R7OC site showing how
to strip and service the magazines.

[lionel]

Another reason why I like Eley Magnums at FAC levels in .22. They are solid and therefore not prone to distortion by the Rapid mag.

Lionel

[verminhunter]

As said before I always use my mags when out hunting and target shooting and always pleased with the results.
I've never ever un-done my mags which are 6 years old and many thousands of pellets through them. All I do is wipe them clean with silicon spray and put them away.
Why do people need to dismantel the mags i never know.

[DEL67]

I stripped my .20 magazine to clean/service it,anyway when I re assembled it I set the tension so it wasnt as strong as it had been before.I suppose I only done it for piece of mind after reading a few posts on different forums regarding Rapids being more accurate when single fed.I also have the single shot loader but these are far to fiddly and awkward (I even managed to get a pellet which fell back down into the bolt into the action.I had to remove the trigger cartridge to get it out).I mostly use the magazine but if I have to single load now I just place the pellet straight in the barrel.

ps there is a sticky in the Technical section on the R7OC site showing how
to strip and service the magazines.


I took my magazine apart tonight and reduced the spring tension one full turn (there's basically no preload on the spring at all now), guess what.. it's worked! The pellets don't get crushed now and accuracy is spot on .
Thanks.
Derek.

[kevG]

As said before I always use my mags when out hunting and target shooting and always pleased with the results.
I've never ever un-done my mags which are 6 years old and many thousands of pellets through them. All I do is wipe them clean with silicon spray and put them away.
Why do people need to dismantel the mags i never know.

to make them better costas:Dto much spring pre load on the 12 and 17 shot mags,air arms pellets get distorted skirts all to easy with the pellets slaming into the pellet stop of the over sprung mags,i do all mine as a mater of course and for piece of mind:)

kevG

[Guesty]

I took my magazine apart tonight and reduced the spring tension one full turn (there's basically no preload on the spring at all now), guess what.. it's worked! The pellets don't get crushed now and accuracy is spot on .
Thanks.
Derek.

You need a bit of preload, or the mag won't index, but I get your point.
I have unwound mine as far as they'll go, and I still get slightly deformed skirts when using soft pellets.
Maybe it doesn't matter, and is not effecting the accuracy, but I'm striving to get the best out of BTAS / AWT Mk2. I've managed to get a couple of 100 yard 1MOA groups when single loaded in perfect conditions, and I just don't think it'll do that with the mags.
Incidentally, it's got a BSA 19.5" choked barrel and I'm having that recrowned today by Dasherman to see if that helps?

[DEL67]

You need a bit of preload, or the mag won't index, but I get your point.
I have unwound mine as far as they'll go, and I still get slightly deformed skirts when using soft pellets.
Maybe it doesn't matter, and is not effecting the accuracy, but I'm striving to get the best out of BTAS / AWT Mk2. I've managed to get a couple of 100 yard 1MOA groups when single loaded in perfect conditions, and I just don't it'll do that with the mags.
Incidentally, it's got a BSA 19.5" choked barrel and I'm having that recrowned today by Dasherman to see if that helps?

There is just enough preload to index the last pellet and the accuracy was only tested at 30 yards, certainly not 100! groups with soft A.A.Fields was about an inch but now by reducing the preload one full turn it's tight clover leafs. I still find myself loading pellets by hand just to be on the safe side but atleast i know i can use the mag. for sensible hunting ranges if i wish.
An inch at 100 yards is very impressive, you must have a very steady hand, head, body, everything etc.

[Guesty]

SNIP
An inch at 100 yards is very impressive, you must have a very steady hand, head, body, everything etc.

Heh, I wish! :)
No, it was near perfect conditions with a bench, rest, wind flags, decent 24x scope, and quality pellets.

[Guesty]

Well, the barrel is now recrowned, and I tested it today to find it shoots exactly the same! :rolleyes:
I tested at 35 yards indoor, and the rifle still shoots the same 'little fingernail' sized 5 shot groups with AA Field, Daystate FT and H&N Baracuda when single loaded, and the groups of the AA and Daystate open marginally when using the mags.
So, it looks like I might change over to Baracuda pellets, but I wanted the flat trajectory, so will have to up the power from 30ft/lb to 40ft/lb.

[verminhunter]

Well, the barrel is now recrowned, and I tested it today to find it shoots exactly the same! :rolleyes:
I tested at 35 yards indoor, and the rifle still shoots the same 'little fingernail' sized 5 shot groups with AA Field, Daystate FT and H&N Baracuda when single loaded, and the groups of the AA and Daystate open marginally when using the mags.
So, it looks like I might change over to Baracuda pellets, but I wanted the flat trajectory, so will have to up the power from 30ft/lb to 40ft/lb.





You dont need 40ftlb so throw that out of the window, trust me been there done it. 32-34ftlb with a 21.3 bis mag will give you the best groups out at 70yds with serous knock down power, any more and accuracy will suffer unless you move over to bullit heads but then you have to get the probe sorted out, bullits are also expensive to buy and for what? what are you gonna do that a bis mag running at around 830-850 fps aint ...... nothing, shooting out to the max on FAC air 80yds and a 33ftlb rapid with a bis mag still blows a hole through the bunnies bonc so, and a much better air economy and less stress on the rifle.;)

[duomatic410]

Same here with aa jsb etc, but have just gone to field target trophy 15.10 grains and put a drop of pellet lube in.

I cannot believe the difference, one hole groups, flat shooting in fac at 30 ish ft/lb. getting groups as tight as bisley mags with 16 inch barrel old gamo triggered mk i. happy now. john. ps. the pellet lube may just have been a coincident as was trying every thing i could lay my hands on(FRUSTRATION SPRINGS TO MIND) Havn/t changed / checked my spring tenshion, thats the next job.:D

[Guesty]

You dont need 40ftlb so throw that out of the window, trust me been there done it. 32-34ftlb with a 21.3 bis mag will give you the best groups out at 70yds with serous knock down power, any more and accuracy will suffer unless you move over to bullit heads but then you have to get the probe sorted out, bullits are also expensive to buy and for what? what are you gonna do that a bis mag running at around 830-850 fps aint ...... nothing, shooting out to the max on FAC air 80yds and a 33ftlb rapid with a bis mag still blows a hole through the bunnies bonc so, and a much better air economy and less stress on the rifle.;)

I don't fancy moving over to bullet heads and really high power as it would ricochet just like my .22LR.
I didn't realise that Baracuda accuracy dropped at 40ft/lb? I once had a Career that spat them at 1018fps average, 50ft/lb, but never did any serious long range accuracy testing.

[stillair1]

A good die batch of pellets helps to. I've aquired a few tins of a particularly good jsb variant that work in mine.

Neil

[verminhunter]

A good die batch of pellets helps to. I've aquired a few tins of a particularly good jsb variant that work in mine.

Neil




Yeah right!:D
And my name's bill.:D
Its your barrel neil that needs a good look in.:D

[Rapidnick]

I don't fancy moving over to bullet heads and really high power as it would ricochet just like my .22LR.
I didn't realise that Baracuda accuracy dropped at 40ft/lb? I once had a Career that spat them at 1018fps average, 50ft/lb, but never did any serious long range accuracy testing.

It is all a question of pellet shape. Diabolo shaped pellets apparently start to tumble above a certain MV. Keeping Baracudas to around 850 ft sec (34 ft lb in .22) seems to optimise accuracy. If you use 30 -or even 40-grain bullet heads you suffer air inefficiency and gain very little in terms of effective killing range. The more I shoot FAC air rifles the more I am convinced that power levels above 35 ft lb in .22 are a complete waste of everything really. Rimfire is the tool of choice if that is where you need to be power-wise.

[verminhunter]

It is all a question of pellet shape. Diabolo shaped pellets apparently start to tumble above a certain MV. Keeping Baracudas to around 850 ft sec (34 ft lb in .22) seems to optimise accuracy. If you use 30 -or even 40-grain bullet heads you suffer air inefficiency and gain very little in terms of effective killing range. The more I shoot FAC air rifles the more I am convinced that power levels above 35 ft lb in .22 are a complete waste of everything really. Rimfire is the tool of choice if that is where you need to be power-wise.







Spoken like a true Spartan (bubble that is) :D:D

[stillair1]

Early mags can be drilled carefully with a 0.6mm drill bit to provided extra anchoring points and less spring tension.

Neil

[j rayner]

Been having a spot of bother whith my rapid 177 fac.it will group lead on lead for about half the mag but throws off the other half at random.is it easy to adjust the tension on the mags.i dont wont the old loosen a screw and springs go all over the place sindroam.anny more tips to solve this problem apreciated.JEZ

[stillair1]

There's only one spring inside Jezer. First off to check that it has no more pretension than one turn for a starter. If you are still getting flyers, the back of the mag can be drilled to provide more anchor points and lower spring tension. You will probably need a bit of tension otherwise the inner rotor may not go back to zero as there can be tension applied from the perspex cover. I can do some snaps tomorrow night if required.
I take it you are talking about the 17shot mag rather than the 7 shot version.;)
ps I would expect it to group better on the second half of the mag if its a tension issue.

[j rayner]

Thanks for that stillair1.it is the 17 shot mag.the fliers occure at anny point of the zeroing.kev g gave me some tips and the groups did get better.i thought i had craked it but i am still getting the odd one 3/4inch flyer.i think there may be some lead been scraped off the pellet either as it leaves the mag into the breech or as it enters the breech ie from the porting.some pics will be great if you can on how to adjust the mag.getting sik of stripping the gun down to no avail.to me an inacurate gun is as good as a chocolate fireguard.ATB JEZ

[Graeme]

The internal wheel that holds the pellets does not align properly with the exit hole on the back of 2 of my mags and regardless of any spring tension adjustment i make ruins the acuracy:( although it is not every shot in the mag that this happens on.

I have one good mag though:)

Eddit, You guys might want to check this on yours (each and every pellet per mag);)