CZ American in .22WMR

[RemMag]

A new review!! :eek: This is in two parts, and I have gone into a little more detail in the 'calibre' section, as I found very little information on .22wmr when I was trying to make my mind up.

THE RIFLE

I'm sure that many of you are very familiar with the CZ 452 American rifle. It's a Mauser-type bolt action magazine fed rimfire rifle, which, at the time of going to press (ahem) is available in .22lr, .22wmr, .17hmr and, I believe, .17Mach2. It is designed for scope only use, and comes without open sights, and with a stock which is more suited to scope use than the normal CZ 'European' style.

The example which I bought was better finished than some I have seen, and for a 'tool' rifle, rather than a 'tart' rifle, the finish is more than adequate. Mine came in at £280, although Sportsmans do them for £256. .22WMR is not available factory screwcut, so expect to pay £70-£150 for this service, if you want to moderate. At this stage, due to tightness of funds, ;) and wanting to get the rifle in action for the summer :D , I decided against it. I plan to get it done next winter.

The mauser style bolt action was a little grindy straight from the box, but an evening spent in front of the telly working the bolt open and shut made a big difference and everything was soon a lot smoother. The bolt action itself uses double extractor claws to grip the rim of the cartridge case on feeding, which means that the cartridge is held, allowing you to operate the bolt action mechanism upside down, should the fancy take you! For those of you who, like me, were taught to shoot using enfield action .22 rifles in cadets/scouts, you may find the mauser action a little different in feel, and it certainly doesn't feel as slick as an Enfield action. It is also not quite as fast. I have had a few feeding issues with my rifle, but never whilst trying to operate the mechanism rapidly. It only happens when, for example, I put a magazine in with an open bolt and then try to close it. In this situation, it sometimes fails to pick up the case properly and dents the middle of it instead. Initially I thought that I was short stroking the action, but careful experimentation has proved that this isn't the case. :confused:(Thinking about it now, it may be due to the magazine not seating properly, I'll check tomorrow.) Overall though, I am fairly satisfied with the action, and it may be a case of operator error, which will be cured by practice. :)

The barrel had a fairly heavy layer of ming in it when I bought the rifle, which I assume was some kind of preservative. Before I started shooting, I gave it a very thorough clean with a bore brush, patches, and Hoppes No9 Bench Rest Barrel solvent. It took a long time before I started running clean patches. The barrel was also not free floating as it should have been, it touched the stock on the left hand side and at the front. However, Half an hours work with some sandpaper soon had that sorted.

The original trigger on the rifle was the usual CZ special, which is so heavy that best accuracy is obtained by mounting the gun on a carriage and tying a piece of string to the trigger, and giving it a good yank. :D It also suffered from an obscene amount of creep, which made decent accuracy hard to achieve. Shortly after getting the rifle, I ordered an Eric Brooks trigger kit from www.cz452.com . It was only $15 and arrived in 3 days via airmail. I also got a set of replacement allan headed stock screws. After much fun and games, I fitted the trigger kit, and it has resulted in a lovely clean breaking medium weight trigger, spot on for hunting. :) I can't recommend doing this highly enough, but whatever you do, DON'T REMOVE THE SEAR PIN!! or you'll find the job a nightmare.

Out of the box accuracy was some 2"-3" at 100yrds, using Remington Jacketed Soft Points. (see below) It is possible this could be reduced slightly with different ammo choices. Whilst this is not brilliant, I suppose that it is adequate enough for hunting out to 100yards. However, after I fitted the Trigger Kit and free floated the barrel, I managed to achieve a few 3 shot groups that were about the 1" mark. I have no doubt that the rifle can do somewhat better in its current state, as I have still only tried one type of ammo, am very out of practice with a rifle, and have not had a really calm day to get the most out of it either. I was quite impressed at the level of accuracy obtainable for under £300 and a few hours labour. :)

[RemMag]

THE CALIBRE

As mentioned above, I found very little information on .22WMR on the web when I was trying to make a calibre choice. At the moment I have only had a .22wmr rifle for slightly over a week, and have only used 1 ammo type in anger, so I will add to this later.

.22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire is the case on which the infamous .17HMR is based. Essentially, it is a cartridge about twice the length of a .22lr case, which puts out a round with a power in the region of 300-340ftlbs at the muzzle, and is considerably faster and flatter flying than .22lr. Bullet weights vary from 30-50 grains, with 33gr, 40gr and 45gr being the most commonly available bullet types. Unlike .22lr bullets, .22wmr bullets are copper jacketed in the same way as centrefire bullet, and there is a wider range of bullet types available, encompassing Solid rounds (FMJ), Jacketed Hollow points, and Ballistic tipped rounds.

When I bought my CZ American, as detailed above, there was something of a paucity of ammo at my firearms dealers; all that was available for me to buy were 200 Remington Jacketed Soft Points, a box of winchester Full Metal Jacket rounds, 25 CCI Maxi Mag JHP's, and 7 (yes 7!) rounds of Winchester 45gr JHP's. I took the lot.

The Remingtons are a 40gr Soft Point design, they are somewhere between a spitzer type bullet and a roundnose with an exposed lead tip. The box claims a muzzle velocity of 1910fps and a muzzle energy of 324ft/lbs. At 100yds these are 1,340fps and 159ft/lbs respectively. The mid range traj. is claimed at 1.7". Essentially, then, this is a calibre that hits somewhat harder at 100 yards than a .22lr does at the muzzle.

The Winchester and Maxi mag boxes are unique in that virtually no information is printed on the box. :D Suffice to say the maxi mags are Hollow points, and the FMJ's are just that, and comparively useless as a result.

As reported in the rifle section, I have been able to get the Remington ammo to group within 1"-11/2" at 100 yards, and I hope to improve this slightly. This ammunition also seems to be slightly flatter flying than the box would have you believe, more like 1" to 1.5" @50 yards.

The terminal performance of the Remington ammo on game has left much to be desired so far. I have shot a definate 7 rabbits with it over the last couple of days, and have only been able to recover 4, it is possible that a couple more were hit but not decisively. This round seems to suffer from over penetration, particularly at longer ranges where there is less velocity to open the wound channel. The longest shot that I have been able to recover was at 70 yards, the round had punched the chest cavity leaving fairly small entrance and exit wounds. As you can imagine, this has not been confidence inspiring, and I would not recommend hunting with JSP type ammo unless you restrict the range to 50-75 yards and stick to head shots. It does not seem to expand sufficently for humane heart/lung shots.

The limited amount of JHP ammo I have at the moment is too small to zero, learn the trajectory, and then hunt with, so I can't comment on its performance on game, however, on tomatoes ( :D ) i found that it expanded sufficently to blow fragments of tomato at least 15' into the air, compared to the JSP's which merely took the back 1/3 of the tomato off on impact.

Hopefully, I will be able to get a decent quantity of JHP's in the next week, and I will report back then.... :)

[Baldie]

I have had a few feeding issues with my rifle, but never whilst trying to operate the mechanism rapidly. It only happens when, for example, I put a magazine in with an open bolt and then try to close it. In this situation, it sometimes fails to pick up the case properly and dents the middle of it instead. Initially I thought that I was short stroking the action, but careful experimentation has proved that this isn't the case. :confused:(Thinking about it now, it may be due to the magazine not seating properly, I'll check tomorrow.) Overall though, I am fairly satisfied with the action, and it may be a case of operator error, which will be cured by practice. :)



Been there, done that........ (with HMR but same mag).

I worked out it happened to mine on round 4 and 5, though pushing the mag into the rifle while loading the next round would solve this. (And is a 'habit' I still happened stopped.)

Solution? New mag. Have a look at the picture (http://www.postmaster.co.uk/fs/geoffreydavies/Public//HMR%20mag%20comparison.jpg). Round on the right hand mag wasn't being collected when the bolt was moved forward, as it's (angle of) attitude was too high for the bolt to catch the rim. Hence the case denting as the bolt collides into the round.

New mag and all has been well since. :) :)

[Chris St. MH]

I'm not claiming they will work in your gun but Remington Premier 33gn V-Max (recommended to me by Stevo and Foxshooter) work brilliantly in my Anschutz. They got (real-world) groups down from about 1 3/4" (CCI Maxi Mags) to around the 1" mark. I am sure the rifle/ammo combination could do better as this wasn't shot off a bench and the air here is rarely still. A bonus is a mid range trajectory (100 yards) of only 0.8". They don't ricochet either.

[RemMag]

Thanks guys.

Baldie; I suspected as much, although I haven't had a proper shufti at it yet.

Chris; I'm after some Rem Prems to try, amongst other things, but like you I am at the mercy of an over-priced provincial RFD. :mad: Just out of interest, have you ever shot a fox with Rem Prems, and how did it perform?

[Hunter_zero]

Thanks guys.

Baldie; I suspected as much, although I haven't had a proper shufti at it yet.

Chris; I'm after some Rem Prems to try, amongst other things, but like you I am at the mercy of an over-priced provincial RFD. :mad: Just out of interest, have you ever shot a fox with Rem Prems, and how did it perform?

I have shot a few foxes with a Cz/.22wmr and they didn't get back up!

A very under rated round IMHO

John

[wambamboo]

Hi all,

Looking on the american sites,rimfire cenral etc
they seem to think a lot more of the wmr than the uk

regards wam

[Liam]

A mate at my club can group about an inch with CCI maxi mags in his CZ611 at 100 metres. He complains about the price of ammo though as he's a bit trigger happy.

[Chris St. MH]

Chris; I'm after some Rem Prems to try, amongst other things, but like you I am at the mercy of an over-priced provincial RFD. :mad:

Try living in a county that's cut off by the ocean and only has one RFD! :)

Just out of interest, have you ever shot a fox with Rem Prems, and how did it perform?

No foxes in Orkney. However the V-MAX rounds seldom exit the rabbit from a centre-mass shot. It kills them very rapidly indeed, though with extensive bruising if you go through the shoulders/flanks. I also have a .22 Hornet and find that a bit excessive in the lethality department (as Dave Hughes priomised). Not nice. The .22WMR is a good compromise.

[RemMag]

Thanks Chris. ;) Just to piss on your shoes a little, I have tracked down a local part time RFD working out of a converted gun room/garage who does wmr ammo at about £6 a box, 'cos he doesn't think its worth more than that! :D

[Chris St. MH]

Thanks Chris. ;) Just to piss on your shoes a little, I have tracked down a local part time RFD working out of a converted gun room/garage who does wmr ammo at about £6 a box, 'cos he doesn't think its worth more than that! :D

But is it Remington Premier? If it is, it would pay me to drive to Wales and pick some up! ;)

[RemMag]

But is it Remington Premier? If it is, it would pay me to drive to Wales and pick some up! ;)

We'll see, I ordered some and I'm going to drop buy tomorrow and see if its in yet. ;)

[RemMag]

I have found over the years 33g Rems to perform best in my CZ, shot a couple of fox's now and many Rabbits. Haven't lost any so far, stops them there and then.
Good luck
Axl

Cheers AXL, I've been baiting up a fox that I keep seeing at 70 yards when I've got the shotgun on one of my shoots!! I should find out soon. :cool:

[Chris St. MH]

Well good luck Alex, hope you get your marked Target.
I know Sportsman does the Remms, don't know if that info will help, maybe they could send some up to a RFD etc closer to you?? Its not a bad price either, get mine for £5.50 /box 50 and my Rem 17HMR ammo for £7.00 a box/50 which I think is a good price.
Keep us updated, good shooting
Axl

You're not joking. Up here Rem Premier 33gn V-MAX are £15 / box 50 and 17HMR (Rem, 17gn V-MAX) £13 / box 50.

[RemMag]

Well, I had a bit of a result today.....!!

I finally managed to get out and about with the 100 odd CCI Maxi Mags I'd picked up a few weeks ago, as I'm sure you all noticed, it was a beautifully warm and sunny day, with little wind.

I used up about 50 rounds shooting groups at 100yds. Initially I found the rounds struck 12 clicks higher than the Remington JSP's, but directly above the point of aim, so it was the work of a moment to re-zero.

Initially, I was quite impressed with the accuracy of the CCI's, my first 2 shots were cloverleafed (although on the backing board) and my first group of 5 rounds saw 3 within 1" and 2 serious flyers, which I put down to my shooting.

However, as I continued to shoot, I couldn't get the group sizes down, incl. fliers they were 2-3", with a central pair or trio within about an inch. I cleaned the barrel, which made no odds, let it cool, which made no difference either! I am fairly sure my shooting was ok, so this was a bit of a piss off, tbh. Any suggestions?

As to the terminal effect, I was lucky enough to chance upon a 30 yard 3/4 grown rabbit as I headed back to the car. Even more luckily, it happily munched whilst I slowly put my rucksack down, opened my rifle slip, got a box of rounds out, loaded the mag, and then chest shot it. The JHP's opened up beautifully, opening the opposite half of the ribcage like a trapdoor, leaving a cavity of mush that would comfortably accomodate a pool ball. This was a massive improvement on the JSP's, and almost compensated for the crap groups I'd shot.

[Chris St. MH]

Initially, I was quite impressed with the accuracy of the CCI's, my first 2 shots were cloverleafed (although on the backing board) and my first group of 5 rounds saw 3 within 1" and 2 serious flyers, which I put down to my shooting.

However, as I continued to shoot, I couldn't get the group sizes down, incl. fliers they were 2-3", with a central pair or trio within about an inch. I cleaned the barrel, which made no odds, let it cool, which made no difference either! I am fairly sure my shooting was ok, so this was a bit of a piss off, tbh. Any suggestions?

That was exactly much my experience. I put it down to the MMs having 'plated' jackets which aren't as concentric as the real jacket on the Premier. MMs are also (as you discovered) very good on the lethality front, though not as consistently expanding as the Premiers. The Premiers will consistently shoot just over an inch in the real world, off a bipod with yours truly (not Pete Moore or Carlos Hathcock) behind the gun.

[foxshooter]

Your problem with a few good shots and fliers....... Are the fliers usually in the same place??

You need to rim thickness your ammo. Its a nut buster of a job but you will end up with two or three piles of sorted ammo, 2 piles each of a different rim thickness and a third of odds and sods. Use them one pile at a time and you will find your group sizes will come down.

Mark

[RemMag]

Your problem with a few good shots and fliers....... Are the fliers usually in the same place??

You need to rim thickness your ammo. Its a nut buster of a job but you will end up with two or three piles of sorted ammo, 2 piles each of a different rim thickness and a third of odds and sods. Use them one pile at a time and you will find your group sizes will come down.

Mark

No, sometimes they are, or I'll get a few in the same place, but generally they are all over the shop. Will rim sorting still make a difference? I've got bugger all else to do with my life, so I don't mind spending the time! :D

[wambamboo]

hi all,

i have a .22wmr american, how often do you clean the
barrel ? After all your trips or when your performance drops like in a
22lr?
thanks wam

[wambamboo]

hi Axl,

getting on fine with the rifle ,just can`t get on charlie.


regards wam

[rogo]

[QUOTE=wambamboo]hi Axl,

getting on fine with the rifle ,just can`t get on charlie.



I may be able to help you there! ;)

[Inspector 71]

AXL - excuse me for interruping the thread. Are you the chap with the
v. high velocity .177 Rapid Mk2?

If so, could you tell me MV, ME, traj' and which pellets you favour.

Also, what type of monkies* can you take out with this rifle?

TIA

Neil B

* I hope you are the right chap or you'll think I am crazy! :)

[RemMag]

Well, after months of not conveniently passing a gunshop with some Remington Premier V-Max in stock.......I did on saturday. They wanted an outrageous £27.50/100 for them, but I figured that as I had used someone else's (Works) petrol to get there, I might as well have them, just to try like. ;)

Anyway, I got out and about with them this afternoon.....initial groupings at 25yds were impressive.....they tended to go through one hole which was only about .25" across, if that. I zero'd at 25ydsm, before moving the target back to 100yds. I tried to shoot some groups at 100yds, but the wind was gusting strongly and I wasn't really shooting at my best, I kept tensing up badly before each shot, so I abandoned the grouping once I had at least confirmed that I had an approximate zero at 100m. (These are very flat flying rounds.)

I then went out and blew up 7 rabbits over the next few hours, and came home looking something like this-> :D

The V-max performed excellently. Every single one of the rabbits hit the deck without a twitch, except for the first one I shot, which disconcertingly danced around like a rapper on E's as I walked over to it. When I flipped it over, I could see that fully half of its head had disappeared, and the 'contents' of the other half had leaked out, so I put it down to the typical 'headshot' reaction you often get.

[nishikigoi]

Every single one of the rabbits hit the deck without a twitch, except for the first one I shot, which disconcertingly danced around like a rapper on E's as I walked over to it.

Ah yes, must be an irish rabbit doing the 'Lord of the dance' display :D

[WINK]

But is it Remington Premier? If it is, it would pay me to drive to Wales and pick some up! ;)
locol R.F.D does the rems for 8.50 a box:D that down 'ere' in derby
but most accurate ammo in my rifle is winchester 40 grain jhp's inch at 100 yards from the bench on a good day:D