Soviet Bazaar XVF [Archive]

Gary C

16-12-2005, 10:03 AM

Yours will be better than mine - Vlad (the ############*) freely admitted to caving into consumer pressure and selling everything he had, leaving me a crappy old model.

Bear in mind I'm a SB disti so I'm selling them. Please take this review with a pinch of salt cos I could be lying...

The unit is like a day sight with a torch on the side. The back of the torch houses electronics - with a crinkly cable to a power pack.

Out of the box.
Looks interesting. Once again let down by silly things like the zeroing turrets being in Russian. This annoys me a bit, but isn't a major fault.

Ergonomics
It's OK - but the totally crinkly cable is a bad idea. The concept was to velcro the power pack to the stock, but I think this is a crap idea. The power pack is too heavy for this and needs to be in the breast pocket.
This leads me to believe that the cable needs extending by about 2 feet and a connector putting on at the unit end not just the psu.

weight
Not heavy for NV but be careful. If you stick it on the end of a Bushnell 4200 your rifle will be VERY front heavy. I couldn't yomp it for hours.

Mechanics
I wasn't supplied with mounts so had to go out and hold it a la octopus. However it slots into the connect very well and so I suspect it will be very good with this unit. Other units I'll wait until I see the universal mount.

Performance
Awesome.
It's like watching TV. I found a curious disconnect between me and the target which didn't worry me but was, well, strange. However I found it quite easy on the eye. The only Gen2+ unit I've seen to beat it is the HTH731. It knocks spots off the ATN Crusader. Clive Wards kit and a Gen2+ Kite may be better but I haven't seen them.
I could see somebody coming out of a gate over 1/2 a mile away illuminated by streetlights, at x10 mag using a Connect. In useable terms the best dark stretch I could get was 100 yards and I could happily see the dogs at that range. I would guess at detecting a fox at 200 yards but I don't know for sure.

To summarise - I have a doubt about the weight so far forward. I don't think a long scope and a heavy gun would work well. I'd reccommend the connect and a light to middle weight rifle depending on user size. The Connect is perfect. Performance astounded me. LIKE GEN2+ BUT AT X10 FOR £500

I'll be getting one. Sammie won't (too heavy. 5'2 and 7 stone)

We will be selling these with immediate effect and have one available for demo. Obviously BBS members get a discount.
For further info mail us on
mtcoptics(removey_this)@hotmail.co.uk

cliveward

16-12-2005, 10:49 AM

Hi Gary,

Good to see Vlad has got it sorted. Even though he is a competitor I still admire him for producing a product in the UK and coming up with something new.

I know you were pushed to get this review out, but when you get time I think it would be worth testing the scope along side various other scopes on a proper dark night to get a more accurate comparison. I don't know what it was like up your way last night...but here it was a full moon and no cloud...didn't even need the NV. :)

Just to give you an idea...low light CCDs...which I assume this scopes uses can get down to about .01 lx. A clear night with full moon is 1-2 lx so it will work superbly, but under just starlight you only have .0001 lx hence the big IR torch strapped on the side. ;) I think if you try it when it is properly dark then the range will be limited by the power of the illuminator.

Just noticed that we had the brightest moon in 18 years over the last few days! Maybe that has something to do with the aparent amazing performance?

Certainly seems an interesting product though and I wish Vlad luck with it.

Cheers

Clive

The Tank Engine

16-12-2005, 03:48 PM

doc steve

16-12-2005, 04:09 PM

sounds even more intresting now :eek:

Campbell

16-12-2005, 04:49 PM

Chris

Thanks for the review.

Campbell

monkey hanger

16-12-2005, 06:13 PM

Sorry for being a bit thick? but what is the power pack for? is it for additional illumination or a power supply for the unit itself? and whats the view like is it totally 2 dimension or do you get some feel of distance? I am interested in one as my set up with an atn aries is HEAVY, plus I fancy a bit more mag? so it could be option for me?
cheers MH

Gary C

16-12-2005, 08:26 PM

It's a digital unit so it needs powering.
The x10 mag is a revelation. I was very cynical as I was locked into the paradigm that NV was x6 max. I was so cynical I wouldn't take orders for the stuff...

Weight wise I'd put it on a par with the ATN but it will seem heavier if you mount it on a long scope.

much lower profile though so no cant.

The extra mag will make rangefinding with a laser more accurate.

My only wish is that the connect was vari mag as I like x2o for the long bunnies

Interestingly there is a x2 digital doubler so you can get x20 if you don't mind lower res!

Gary C

16-12-2005, 08:28 PM

Thanks for that, Gary - a good intro. I have a question on how it works with the reticle - how did that appear when you look through it? Would I need an illuminated reticle on my day scope to be able to use it? I don't have one and don't particularly want to buy one - esp if i'd have to drop a significant amount of money on an XVF...

I'm very excited though.:D

Tom

I'm excited too :)
I'd recommend the Connect scope. Or something 3 to 10 ish. The ret appears because it is lit from the TV type picture of the scope, clear as a bell
You don't need illumination

Weevie

16-12-2005, 11:30 PM

Nice review Gary

Just one question. Have you done a review of the Connect yet? Did a search and came up blank (and no jokes about my recent operation :D ). I've heard a lot and about this prismatic wonder but it'd be nice to get read a specific review.

Come the new year I may just have some extra money to burn. I assume you'll be selling the Connect too.

Gary C

17-12-2005, 06:21 PM

Hi mate

The Connect is - potentially - awesome. The prototype is IMHO superb. Bear in mind that scopes are very subjective. Pete Sparkes doesn't like them.

However I have still not seen the finished article yet. As this is manufactured overseas as opposed to the XVF being manufactured in UK I am cautious re. build quality of the 1st batch. Because of this I have declined to take orders.

If I mount one and use it I will sell it. If I wont, then I wont.

Weevie

17-12-2005, 11:14 PM

Yeah I figured you'd only sell stuff you'd consider using yourself. You've got enough enemies already as it is! ;) :D :D

Oh well, I can wait. March 12th and Lea Valley are a while away! ;)

Geordie

19-12-2005, 08:11 PM

You had this out in the field yet then mate? :)

Gary C

20-12-2005, 09:37 AM

Ooooo kaaaayyyy

I've still not had the mounts so I'm hand holding. Using the existing setup I can see a rabbit as being a rabbit at 80 yards well enough to take a shot at it's head.

At that point you are running low on res. Bear in mind its hand held so I'm shaky anyway

This puts it into mid range Gen2+ territory. If you stick an optical doubler on a x5 Gen2 the resulting x10 will probably have less res than this.

I would imagine foxes would be shootable to 120 to 15o yards.

So..look through a good Gen2 you'll see better res (IMHO) but not hugely. This is an add on AND is x10. Outstanding for airguns and rimmy. OK for foxes but I'd sooner go HTH731 standard

Dave-G

20-12-2005, 06:28 PM

would "ok for rimmie" include a semi auto?

I ask as the cycle action feels similar to a small recoil

rabbitman

20-12-2005, 11:08 PM

As a Demonstrator in the Midlands if any one wants to see one of these I'll badger Vladimir to get one sent out.:)

Gary C

21-12-2005, 09:46 AM

would "ok for rimmie" include a semi auto?

I ask as the cycle action feels similar to a small recoil

Hi Dave
There's no big recoil with a rimmie, I'd imagine it's ok. My opinion would depend on the mounts, and that's something I haven't seen yet

Dave-G

21-12-2005, 04:02 PM

thanks gary - the re-cycle action of my ruger is softer but more noticible than the recoil of an airsporter springer, if that makes any sense.

Thats going by memory though, I haven't fired a springer for about 12 years :rolleyes:

c.anderson1

31-12-2005, 09:24 PM

For those of you out there excited by the arrival of this innovative new piece of kit, beware! There are a few things you will not read on the Soviet Bazaar web site or any other advertisements in relation to their new night vision attachment.

My dealings with this company have been a complete disaster from start to sorry finish :mad: . As a company they are misleading in the advice they give. For example I was told 14 days for delivery, after that time had elapsed there was a problem with the company that made the turrets for device, then there was a problem with the machine that made the printed circuit boards for the device! More delays. Finally I was told my order would be ready for dispatch the week starting 5th December. When it had not arrived by Friday 9th I was told there was yet another problem with getting the existing orders out. The week starting 12th December, I was given a Royal Mail special delivery tracking number, great! Bloody thing got lost in the post, or was it actually posted? I finally received my goods on Saturday 17th December two days short of seven weeks after they had debited my account of their fantastic introductory offer price of £499.:eek:

My experience with this company left me with some nagging doubts as to whether I had been conned. I guess my experiences up to the point of delivery, had a debilitating effect on my expectations.

The device arrived with no carry case to keep it in when not in use. Just thrown into a box and surrounded by polystyrene snow. No instructions were included! The device looks nothing like the pictures in their adverts. The objective lens has no lense cap for protection and was covered in dust particles. The length of the device is 230mm (9 inches) and weighed in at 1Kg! This did not include the brick sized battery pack that is required to attach to the device via the concertina power cord. Already my first impressions/ expectations were dashed :( . The clever photo from the front in their advert makes the device look short. You may ask what’s the problem with the length? Well once this thing is attached to your scope, you need abnormally long arms to reach the focus lever and x10 magnification button whilst your weapon is in the shoulder! The weight together with your existing scope makes for a heavy sighting system. It also makes the weapon nose heavy, real heavy. Ok if shoot off a bipod, but how practical is that on a normal hunting trip. The small x10 magnification button looks flimsy and likely to get knocked off and lost if caught by undergrowth. The turrets are marked in Russian? I doubt if the device would resist a light shower, it appeared to have too many places where moisture would get in. Once this device is bolted onto the front of your scope, the TV picture from the device does not sit centrally with your scope picture due to the weight of the device pulling it down. There are brass screws to adjust the picture and the turrets fine tune this. Shame I had to make yet another call to find this out as I was missing the instructions. However the TV picture as I call it will not fill your entire scope picture.

All these things left me feeling totally let down, the device is not a practical attachment in my view. On the plus side, the digital night vision is good. The picture is a light blue/ dark picture of very good quality. This device needs further development and certainly more than the alleged six months from concept to production/ sale. It’s too big, too heavy and requires a lead and battery pack. The controls are not easy to use either. I have held off submitting this report, as I wanted to get my money back first and you guessed it, that was less than straight forward!

One final comment, Murdo the Soviet Bazaar chap at the other end of the phone is a really nice guy, shame he works for a company that make unrealistic delivery times and leave out important facts from their adverts which would assist prospective buyers.:mad:

littlegus

31-12-2005, 09:48 PM

Thanks for that report, youve just saved me a packet and a lot of bother.
Happy New Year Mate!

:)

Campbell

01-01-2006, 06:04 AM

C.anderson1

Many thanks for you detailed report, I am really and truly dissapointed with what you say, I was looking forward to getting one of these devices.

I assume that there is no adjustment facility to fill your scope picture?

When I spoke to Murdo and Vladimir, I was told the unit weighed 690grams and I advised them that, IMHO, the unit should be braced onto the stock of gun in some kind of way.

I am really dissapointed, I just hope the Connect - 01 is a better story.

Thanks again

Campbell

16 Grain

01-01-2006, 09:47 AM

I don't know much about these things admittedly but I would have thought that a dedicated NV scope would be a better solution. An add on is necessarily a compromise and would have drawbacks.

My own thoughts were that it might be possible to fit an NV scope to a picatinny rail in addition to the regular scope although I'm not sure whether this combination would be very useable - it might be hard to look through. Has anyone tried it?

beth

01-01-2006, 10:10 AM

I've got the dedicated NV scope on order. If and when it turns up I'll do a review. Every time I get a response from Murdo I get told it'll be 2 weeks, first due date was beginning of december....
Beth

Edit: a reputation is very easy to obtain, it's much harder to lose it.

foxshot

01-01-2006, 10:44 AM

Thank you c.anderson1 for an honest appraisal of one of Vlad's bits of 'High Tech' kit.
No doubt you are soon to receive an ear bashing from a couple of our BBs contributors who are 'in bed' with Vlad as they try and knock out they over priced and poor quality nv goods. N.B. This also includes the overweight/ overpriced 731 models which is well thought of on this site. Without the use of an xd4/ xr5 Dep tube its still a piece of russian surplus with a heritage stretching back 20 years (or more?)

Chas

01-01-2006, 11:23 AM

Well I,m gutted aswell
I,m glad I sat in the wings on this one waiting for appraisals before I leapt in feet first, I,m really p*ssed off in fact.
Back to my original plan then but 2 months later.
I hope that these problems are ironed out because I truely believe this could be ideal for my needs but I,m not prepared to wait any longer.
Damn and blast

Chris

c.anderson1

01-01-2006, 11:42 AM

I took the liberty of taking a few digital photo's of the XVF-01 before I sent it back. If anyone can give me a few pointers on how to get them on this bulletin board, I will post them, I took them against a tape measure for scale. As for the comment about making the TV picture bigger, don't know. I was so disapointed with it when it finally arrived, I was convinced it was not for me and didn't bother to find out.:(

Barrie_G

01-01-2006, 12:30 PM

I took the liberty of taking a few digital photo's of the XVF-01 before I sent it back. If anyone can give me a few pointers on how to get them on this bulletin board, I will post them, I took them against a tape measure for scale. (

If you go HERE (http://imageshack.us/) and up load the pics then put a link to the pics on here people will be able to go to them and have a look;)

c.anderson1

01-01-2006, 01:59 PM

Here goes, I hope this works as I have not done this before. Point your browser to the following links. Let me know if they work. If so I will upload the other images I have.

(http://img487.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08607kf.jpg)

[IMG]http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/8619/dscf08649tq.th.jpg (http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08649tq.jpg)

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/2782/dscf08669zb.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08669zb.jpg)

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5678/dscf08698mq.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08698mq.jpg)

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/7348/dscf08684ij.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08684ij.jpg)

Barrie_G

01-01-2006, 02:43 PM

The links are working fine,

though I think you'll be getting a lot of people asking how you have managed to get pictures to show on here as normally they don't.....

At all;)

Geordie

01-01-2006, 02:55 PM

The links are working fine,

though I think you'll be getting a lot of people asking how you have managed to get pictures to show on here as normally they don't.....

At all;)

They do in the reviews forum mate ;)

Barrie_G

01-01-2006, 03:02 PM

They do in the reviews forum mate ;)

Just going off what I normally read on here and people complaining about not being able to show pics:p

All the best anyway mate, get out and catch some bunnies, shift some of the weight that we've all put on in the last week;) :D

baz

01-01-2006, 03:08 PM

I have no interest in NV gear so I wont comment on it, a good friend of mine ordered one along with the digitals scope, they gave him six delivery dates, along with three tracking numbers none of which the PO could find, presumably because they were never posted:rolleyes:

My mate is pleased with the scope but very disappointed with the size of the NV, the lead and the battery, he reckons they are way bigger than he was assured they would be

Just saying what he thinks, whereas the small amount of dealing I have had with SB they were very efficient and helpful

Baz

c.anderson1

01-01-2006, 04:48 PM

Here you have it, the remainder of my Photos. The first shot of the device on the scales did not show clearly the weight, however note where the needle is pointing and it is shown on the second photo, but the device isn't shown that clearly. The last shot is of the image through the device, sorry for the quality, it does not show the image in it's best light.:)

http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/6772/dscf08618fe.th.jpg (http://img423.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08618fe.jpg)

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/5125/dscf08623hx.th.jpg (http://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08623hx.jpg)

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/2310/dscf08632bq.th.jpg (http://img432.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08632bq.jpg)

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/8612/dscf08650zj.th.jpg (http://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08650zj.jpg)

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/4223/dscf08676dd.th.jpg (http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08676dd.jpg)

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/8489/dscf08702fx.th.jpg (http://img432.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf08702fx.jpg)

mel b

01-01-2006, 04:51 PM

well i'm gutted,after my brief and very impressive flirtation with digital nv i'd been breaking my neck to get my hands on one of these bits of kit, it looks like buying another nv scope now:(

jobert151

01-01-2006, 06:11 PM

Thanks for that report looks like you've saved me a lot of dosh. And happy new year to you all

Gary C

01-01-2006, 11:18 PM

Geordie

01-01-2006, 11:46 PM

Interesting and very well written review by Mr Anderson.. I'm always a tad suspicious of a newbie with an axe to grind though....:rolleyes:

I am still waiting for my set up to try it out. (still no connect, still no mounts for my XVF) As I said at the start - I have a doubt about the weight.

But then, that's why I took on the distributorship. It's a chance for me to show people the kit BEFORE you part with your hard earned.

The moral? TRY BEFORE YOU BUY!!

Indeed mate. I read the review with interest, and although his frustrations with delivery date have obviously showed through, I feel he got his point across pretty well.

The service you provide between SB and the end user is invaluable - if I hadn't been able to try it out beforehand I'd never have bought my g2 XVD ;)

Having just had a brilliant extender rail made up by Keef, I think I'll be sticking with the XVD setup for the foreseeable future - although I'll continue to watch developments on the digital front, too :)

If you want to discuss axe-grinding though, I refer you to Mr Foxshot's post above :rolleyes: ;)

steve-o-

02-01-2006, 11:17 AM

Well, the plot certainly thickens.
And to think I nearly went for the 'Special Intro Offer'!! :eek:
Oh well, back to searching for dedicated sights then.

Steve Where's the daddy? -Ooooh-

Gary C

02-01-2006, 12:28 PM

once again Steve...try before you discard..

One potential Troll doth not a summer make

foxshot

02-01-2006, 06:06 PM

Thank you Geordie,
Firstly I am not a 'Newbie'
I have no axe to grind but have had the pleasure/ privledge to try out most items including a few Atn models which share the weight disadvantages but still perform better than SB.
Lastly the man has shown the evidence, unless yoy feel he has tampered with the weighing scale. elongated the lenght of his hand span and 'photoshoped' the size/quality of image produced?

Steyr

02-01-2006, 06:49 PM

I have seen the prototype of the connect prism scope and it looked good to me. Would like to see a final production peice and especially the reticle for use with hunting and HFT comps with a view to accurate bracketing potential.

The NV kit has got a lot of stick from a couple of feedbacks here - fair enough but I will wait to see for myself before making a judgement.

As it stands, if you want one rifle with optical and NV capability, you go for a day scope and put on the back one of the SB monoculars. I have never liked this format as it pushes the head well back - this I consider to be more unatteactive than having a front heavy rifle - this can be dealt with by shooting sticks or 25 inch bipod to kneel or sit.

The nv unit does appear to be long and typically soviet quality in terms of finish.

However, if it is used with the connect (which is shorter than normal) would this not pull the not inconsiderable weight back. I do like the idea of having the NV on the front of the scope not it's ########.

As for digital NV over photocathode and magnification, I cannot comment not having seen it to compare.

I always ignore the hype. Judge it on its merits - does it work, if so what are it's faults and what can be modified to make it ergonomically more friendly.

I know you can get scope rails that slide forward and are longer than BatMans tackle but it is so heath robinson.

If this NV kit is not right then thats life but it is a very good principle. The other choice is a very long scope set up and a peice of kit from Rail Track or you go to 2 rifles one day and one NV.

I think the concept is excellent - I am sure things will develop in an interesting way.

But I will still wait till I have tried it in the field.

The battery pack certainly looks unweildy though. Agree this would be better on the hip than on the rifle and that heavy coiled cord will be a pain when it pulls when stretched too far. But that is (relatively speaking) an easy fix I would imagine.

It might not meet your expectations (and this is the big draw back when a manufacturer trys to hype things up) but I think this is the right format to pursue.

cliveward

02-01-2006, 08:12 PM

Steyr

02-01-2006, 08:40 PM

Steyr,

The other option you may not have considered is using weaver base mounts on your rifle and then it is very easy to switch from poper day scope to proper night scope and there is no compromise. With a decent scope and mounts you won't have any issues with zero shift.

Indeed and a fair point. However, will this raise the height of the scope and NV unit. This has also been a bit of an issue as most rifles do not have adjustable cheek peices.

My HW is a fine example of this - I have low mounts and a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 and the eye releif is still a little high. This only has a 40mm front lens and as it is I have had to pack both mounts so I can get the scope back over the action to get the correct eye relief.

Simon

rarms

02-01-2006, 09:23 PM

>The other option you may not have considered is using weaver base mounts
>on your rifle and then it is very easy to switch from poper day scope to
>proper night scope and there is no compromise. With a decent scope and
>mounts you won't have any issues with zero shift

I am glad someone else notices this Clive :) I did this for a long time, and ran an independant laser to help range and confirm the zero onxe I had swapped scopes. Most NV I have come accross is weaver based anyway so it is ideal :)

>However, will this raise the height of the scope and NV unit. This has also
>been a bit of an issue as most rifles do not have adjustable cheek peices.

Strap on comb raisers can be had for very little money and even provide a bit of warmth against the cheek on those cold nights out with the NV, whilst being totally damage free and removable once one has put the day scope back on :D

With regard to the report from C.Anderson, IMHO it seems like a fair report, you can't really argue with the pictures and it follows along the lines of what Gary_C said, just more independant ;) :D

Kyle

cliveward

02-01-2006, 10:20 PM

Hey Kyle,

Hows it going? Excellent advice on the comb raisers. Didn't think of it myself as I don't usually have a problem with this but for higher mounting scopes it seems an ideal solution.

Steyr,

There are some very low profile weaver base adapters about ;) and indeed very low profile mounting dedicated night scopes ;)

I've got a HW66 in .22 hornet on it's way to me...once it's all sorted out I'll post a few pics so you can all see what I mean.

Cheers

Clive

c.anderson1

02-01-2006, 11:37 PM

I see that true to Foxshots prediction I have been on the receiving end of some sarcasm from Mr Gary Cooper. Well everyone (including us newbie’s:) ) have to start somewhere, sorry my first post/ review was seen as an 'axe to grind' by the minority. It is me who is however a tad suspicious about your motives Mr C. I thought this forum was a place to share experiences and ask questions in relation to our chosen sport, not to undermine another member’s review for ones own potential gain.

You make an interesting point about trying before you buy. Very good advice. Unfortunately the Isle of Barra is a considerable distance from Cambridgeshire. Thank god for consumer rights:D . As for the list of distributors, well we are all still waiting for the list to appear on the SB web site. I must confess I had never heard of your distribution business until I read your post's earlier? It might be worth advertising further a field so that shooters can indeed try before they buy. Are you the only one or are there similar companies in the Eastern region?

The final irony is this; Murdo at SB told me about this review on this bulletin board and told me to read it as he sensed I was dismayed with events thus far. He thought it would quell my apprehension:o . I didn’t think for one minute I would end up putting the cat amongst the pigeons.

lionel

03-01-2006, 07:07 AM

I don't think Gary did undermine your review. He said your review was well written and interesting. From what I read, he was a bit sceptical but not sarcastic.

I 've been thinking about getting one of the sights and I appreciated your detailed description. It hasn't entirely put me off. Russian lettering on dials doesn't really bother me and the weight should be less of a factor if mounted on the prismatic sight that SB is trying to sell with it. You said it looks like it would let in water. Is this just a gut feeling or do you have any evidence to suggest this? You say a button looks like it would fall off. Again - unless you know someone's that has, you have no basis for saying that. It would be nice if they included a carrying case and lens cap but these are surely minor niggles and have nothing to do with the function of the sight? The launch of this sight has clearly been a nightmare that will embarrass SB for some time to come but I still think it is an exciting development for airgunners.

Lionel

Gary C

03-01-2006, 10:23 AM

Just a quick reply re my motives on this...

I have turned down over £4k of orders for the 2 scopes so far because I wont sell it until I've tried it. I've also delayed setting up a website. In fact I did advise everybody to hold on to their money until they've seen one

Fairly impartial I'd say

However - Mr Anderson..

You do seem to know a lot about this site for somebody who has 5 posts or so, and your first ever contribution was a damning indictment of an NV system. We have no idea who you are or what your motives are.
I don't trust you..

sbd

03-01-2006, 11:46 AM

...he is entitled to an opinion though Gary?!
Just as you are entitled not to like it, agree with, or trust it/him. IF the service he got from SB is as he described, remembering they had debited his account, then he is entitled to feel peeved. We do only have his side of things though. Do number of posts automatically devalue opinions? E.g. Steve Pope has just started posting...
The difficulty here is that as you are a highly respected member of this board, coupled to the fact you are able to put your money where your mouth is in HFT there are a good number of perhaps more impressionable members that take your position as gospel and run in with sucker-punches after you've finished with the shoe leather :eek: ;)
However this is my opinion and I digress from the topic.

Once I'd filtered out the grievances from Mr Anderson's post I read it as complimentary of the product bar the weight and power pack where if, as has been said, he had tried first rather than sight unseen he could have pre-empted his disappointment. It was his choice, no one forced him to buy it untried. The customer service can be viewed as a seperate issue.

Gary C

03-01-2006, 03:42 PM

No buts mate.

If you read my post I'm critical of the product. However Mr Anderson fails to introduce himself and just lashes out. In venting his spleen I see little to reccommend the product, in fact he fails to mention its USP.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I feel Mr Anderson has a hidden agenda.

Why accuse SB of misrepresentation when all he has to do is ask for a refund as is his entitlement?

Oh..and I put my money where my mouth is in more than HFT mate. Anything I sell I am prepared to demonstrate....:rolleyes:

sbd

03-01-2006, 03:59 PM

...that's fair enough.
I had clocked that you are holding back a final opinion until you are happy yourself, I hope it's positive all round as I'd like both the NV and the Compact 'scope but want a fair appraisal/demonstration before I splash out.
My point was that I can't see that because Mr A is unhappy he has an ulterior motive, no. of posts or not. I accept you may know something that I don't about him but it is a bit of a theme here that you've got to have XXX posts etc etc BUT this has been done to death so let's leave that one.

End of the day I suspect most on this BBS will wait to hear honest evaluations from those such as yourself, positive or negative, and try before they buy (or not).

Gary C

03-01-2006, 04:06 PM

yup

I wouldn't buy one myself yet. Simple as.

Telephone support is crap at the moment
The product has indications of rushed manufacture
I'm not sure how many rifles it will be good on. For instance the lower mounts on the production connects may not be any good.

The resolution is brilliant. X10 for £600 is unbeatable. But it's got to be usable, good quality, and good support.

I've seen 1 out of 4. The others will come. I'd part with my money when they do.

But hell, I'm just repeating myself, I've advised this to so many people who ignored it and placed orders.

Maybe Mr Anderson is Kosher and just a whining ####**er

sbd

03-01-2006, 04:20 PM

:d:d:d

JoeH

03-01-2006, 09:32 PM

Duh ;)

Don't you know Mr Anderson is actually Neo from The Matrix?

He's just waiting for the board's moment of weakness to enable hin to 'tap in' and go about his dirty work.

Free the oppressed? :D Pah ... leave us alone :p

(lots of ;) and :D at the end.....)

foxshot

04-01-2006, 12:03 AM

Dear JoeH , I believe you need to get out in the fields shooting abit more and less time watching DVD's.
only kidding mate!:)

turkey

04-01-2006, 12:21 AM

Never in my life have i spent £700 over the phone on something i have only salivated over on a website but after two short calls to SovBaz i was convinced this would be the way forward for me (only having one rifle) and bought at the discount price. Admittedly i have been slightly worried about the comments on delays, build quality etc but i continue remain optimistic about the performance i am expected to enjoy with this kit, having recently used their D440 with absolutely no quibles about reliability and effectiveness i feel that performance and price will outstrip the aesthetic appeal to me. Lastly i recieved my connect the other day and after initial appearances the comparison against my simmons diamond mag smart is astounding, depth and field of view etc after measuring this mounted on my mk1 rapid and adding the 9" of the digital attatchment the net result is no longer than my existing scope albeit weight will be a factor, a reduced height for line of sight will help and in my case with a 500cc bottle on the front should bring the weight bias back a little!! the only real alternative i could only dream of affording would be the longbow from starlight nv but at well over £2k it is simply out of the question. i wait with baited breath, and then let the bunny bashing re-commence.:)

rarms

04-01-2006, 08:06 AM

another first post on a dubious thread!

steve-o-

04-01-2006, 09:12 AM

Maybe there should be a 'sticky' with some sort of sliding scale arrangement.
Perhaps -

1-10 Posts, potential troll-beware
11-30 Posts, may have troll like tendancies-caution advised
31-100 Posts, might have something to offer-oops, that's me!
101-600 Posts, feel safe posting a cheque to them
601-1000+ Posts, The Holy Grail-have no fear..

This is not meant as a 'dig' at anyone, after all, we all have to start somewhere.

Re. original post.
I think the concept is excellent, just needs to be refined now.

I just wish there was somebody closer to me who has a demo?

Steve-Ooooh-

rarms

04-01-2006, 09:40 AM

Edited as it obviously didn't read in the context it was mean't and besides which this a review forum

turkey

04-01-2006, 09:56 AM

:confused: Have i interupted something?? i didnt realise this wasnt an open forum, yeah it may be my first post but i felt compelled to share my experience so far! perhaps wasted effort hey! i will spend my time shooting rather than muscleing in on 'the brotherhood'.

Gary C

04-01-2006, 10:17 AM

Geordie

04-01-2006, 10:34 AM

Lads for ####**s sake - I mean come on!

I couldn't give a toss how many posts someone has, I can still read their contributions and judge *for myself* how much merit to give them.

This constant derision of newbies is beginning to ######## me off here - give it a rest.

sbd

04-01-2006, 10:52 AM

...is getting silly.

Turkey comes on with something constructive and hell even positive and rarms/kyle comes out the blue with a totally furking pointless response :mad: ???
I'm not surprised Turkey is a little miffed, why shouldn't he be?

I'm pee'd off with myself for letting this get to me but it annoys me that newbies trying to contribute just get cut dead, trolls fine but this guy was perfectly reasonable.

Prodigal

04-01-2006, 10:57 AM

It would be nice to see if anything constructive is being achieved too.

I work in manufacturing and understand something of the pressures of product launch. I'm talking about promised launch dates, then the unforseen problems that crop up generating pressure to maintain that date, with customers kicking the door down or ringing the phone off the hook for their goods.

I'm also a customer, and expect things to a good standard, when promised.

When it goes wrong, as things often do :rolleyes: a lot of communication and a little co-operation usually sorts it. Bitching and name calling don't help much.

Is the new prismatic scope debugged yet 'cos I quite fancy one :D
(I'll try before I buy though):o

Gary C

04-01-2006, 11:47 AM

oops :o

Turkey

I didn't read your post properly. My reply was hasty and unduly snippy.

I am still seething at "Mr Anderson's" implication of SB misrepresentation. Your post was totally different, it was entirely reasonable and so I apologise for my reaction to your upset.

It's not an anti newbie thing. It's merely cynicism born of experience when newbs come on, no introduction, and start to vent against a well trusted and respected company.

As I know the owner personally I know he's as straight as they come and I find it upsetting.

Gary C

04-01-2006, 05:03 PM

Quick update on this.

Customer satisfaction is good when used with a Connect, crap when used with your own scope.

I have finally got hold of a set of mounts for the scope and see how it's done. I am very impressed..IF YOU USE THE CONNECT.

I don't think it's doable with your own scope,

Basically the mounts use your rear dovetail to hold the Connect. They use the front to hold a clamp which holds the XVF. This seems secure. I had trouble with droop on the XVD, this beast will kill your scope IMHO if you try to dangle it off the front. DON'T BUY IT UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO USE THE CONNECT.

I have been promised a full set up at the weekend. If it appears I will take it a-hunting and give it a road test.

Anybody who wants to meet up is more than welcome to come try it

EmDee

04-01-2006, 07:24 PM

Geordie

04-01-2006, 08:30 PM

I do plenty of shooting mate ;)

scottywong

04-01-2006, 08:34 PM

can any one point out the part of turkeys post that made him look like a troll???or am i missing somthing?

scotty:mad:

doc steve

05-01-2006, 01:49 PM

ok looks like the seperate aint gona be so good unless used together but what about the XVF-02 any word on that one may be best bet now ???

Gary C

05-01-2006, 02:10 PM

if you have done over a 1000 post you are strictly arm chair shooter ie a chair gunner....f*#### sake get out and do some shooting

for ########'s sake get a brain
I think I do a bit
I think Baz does a bit..

If you'd like a bit of a comp to see who's the better airgun shot I'm up for it.

Maverick

05-01-2006, 02:17 PM

Warming up nicely, Popcorn at the ready :rolleyes:

Gary C

05-01-2006, 02:17 PM

so basically , to sum up,
the advert in all the gun mags is telling bare faced lies. it clearly states in bold letters "just clip on to the front of any telescopic sight and get a crisp clear sight picture up to 100 yards". i always thought that advertising a product that does not do as said was a breach of trading standards.
it also amazes me that when i originally ordered this was not explained to me and i was told by murdo that it is perfect on any scope whereas the xvd left a lot to be desired . at no point during any other telephone conversations the latest being today, has this been said.if you ask me ,and i,m sure a lot more on here will be sharing my opinion ,if not necessarily voicing it , that this has been an elaborate plot to get you to shell out for a connect. no wonder they could offer it at a £100.00 discount to customers if all along they knew that in the long term they would be making another £298.00 from customers having to purchase a connect in order to use the xvf.
they also did not come clean about the true weight or length of the xvf.
and gary c is seething at mr andersons post ,at least he paints a true picture of the xvf ,not untruths .

Let me sum it up another way.

Vlad did his best. His mistake was to advertise between prototype and manufacture, then take money before he had the final product. Something that was 3 weeks away took 3 months.

I warned him not to do it, I've told him he's a numpty since.

Now personally I think we'll see the tub thumping tosspots crawl out of the woodwork to knock an innovator here. What the brainless hordes seem to miss is that the only person losing here is Vladimir. There is a money back guarantee on mail order goods.

This thread, and some of the reactions, has made me realise just how polarised airgunning is. Some brilliant blokes, some absolute ########**s.

If I've offended anybody I don't give a rat's ########. I'm fed up of idiots who haven't the nous to tie their own shoe laces knocking a decent bloke who's tried to bring an outstanding product to market at a fair price.

If you don't fancy it - don't buy it
If you get it and don't like it - send it back.

oh...and next time get a grown up to tell you where it's going before jumping on the bandwagon

COTTON BLASTER

05-01-2006, 02:57 PM

Baldie

05-01-2006, 04:05 PM

Let me sum it up another way.

Vlad did his best. His mistake was to advertise between prototype and manufacture, then take money before he had the final product. Something that was 3 weeks away took 3 months.

I warned him not to do it, I've told him he's a numpty since.

Now personally I think we'll see the tub thumping tosspots crawl out of the woodwork to knock an innovator here. What the brainless hordes seem to miss is that the only person losing here is Vladimir. There is a money back guarantee on mail order goods.

This thread, and some of the reactions, has made me realise just how polarised airgunning is. Some brilliant blokes, some absolute ########**s.

If I've offended anybody I don't give a rat's ########. I'm fed up of idiots who haven't the nous to tie their own shoe laces knocking a decent bloke who's tried to bring an outstanding product to market at a fair price.

If you don't fancy it - don't buy it
If you get it and don't like it - send it back.

oh...and next time get a grown up to tell you where it's going before jumping on the bandwagon

:D :D :D

I've been watching stuff going on about XVF for more than 4 months. Like you Gary I tried to slow the 'expectation fountain' down, but realised the flow was too strong and opted for sitting on the sideline.

Chaps.

This REALLY is leading edge technology. You will have to bear with Soviet Bazaar that production items don't match the immediate design requirement, and may never do. Only time will tell.

As Gary mentioned, though I'd like to think that most of you don't need reminding, if you don't like it you can send it back for a refund. Or maybe sell it to someone who maybe has a way to make it work for them.

I can assure everyone here, Vlad is the sort of person (as is Murdo) who would give you the last 50p in their pocket if you needed a cup of coffee. Inferring (or worse) that they would be anything other than 'straight-up-guys' would upset me (Mr Patience) so I can well understand how Gary would be tempted to gnaw a chairleg or two. :D :D

I doubt this has helped anyone much, but be assured, Soviet Bazaar is more interested in having happy customers than perhaps some of you (currently) believe.

:) :) :cool:

Gary C

05-01-2006, 04:16 PM

I hope this isn't too much of a dumb question, so bear with me. Are there any indications yet as to how well SB NV equipment will bear up when mounted on a springer. I know springers have a reputation for being sight breakers, so is this discouraged?

I've had a look at the ads for this gear and it looks interesting. It is also obvious that the blokes behind this project are trying to pull off something quite ambitious under significant pressure. That is how innovation has traditionally occurred and solving unforeseen problems is a necessary part of that, not some attempt to 'pull one over'. It may be an idea to work with them rather than perpetually finding reasons to bash them. Even Weirauch had to revise the HW100 post release (steel insert) - were they attempting to mislead? I don't think so.

Hi CB
IMHO it's a no no. I'm not basing this on fact, I just wouldn't fancy electronics being vibrated a lot. I also wouldn't fancy using a connect 01 at night on a springer.
But that's just a very humble opinion. I'd get a second one of Geoffrey

PS.
Thanks Geoffrey for your summation. You are Mr Patience. I'm a little volatile. Sid is positively Pyrotechnic, yet he speaks well of SB.

Those that know them admire them. Simple as

sbd

05-01-2006, 04:32 PM

...solution is to wait until the bugs are sorted.

I have no doubt Gary will give an absolutely honest appraisal when he feels this has been done. You'll know when 'cos he'll be getting (or at least someone will) an order from me.
OK SB screwed up by getting a bit ahead of themselves I have no doubt that if you asked them they'd admit it, it is an extremely common mistake made by well meaning small businesses when they have a hot new product they're excited about, I've done it myself at a gamefair it was the most embarrasing day of my life and I didn't ever make the same mistake. They'll learn for the next time. It is not EVER meant to diddle Joe Public.

There are some on here who parted with cash and feel aggrieved of a lack of service or product quality. It's entirely their remit to express this, bottom line is they can have their money back at which point they should chalk it to experience.

There appear to be some tossers that just fancy waving their cocks about and they should just ########* off, but they won't :rolleyes: the joys of a public forum :D

Campbell

05-01-2006, 05:53 PM

The impetus for me joining this superb forum was that I did a “Google” for NV equipment and I discovered the impending launch of the XVF. Murdo referred me to the “forum”

In my opinion the XVF IS STILL, potentially, the best NV equipment for the owner of a single rifle and/or on a REASONABLE budget. Period. I have searched Google, and there are no other manufactures offering a FRONT mounted DIGITAL NV ATTACHMENT.

I too am disappointed with the initial reports, but I would like to think that the experienced NV contributors to this forum can offer their experience so that HTH can quickly iron out the initial problems.

My personal gripes:

1) If I am to use my existing scope, and the weight of the NV is 1kg, then the NV unit needs to be braced to the stock of the rifle. IT WILL DAMAGE MY LEUPOLD!

2) Mr Anderson says that the picture of the NV unit does not fill the scope, if this is correct, please fix. The weight, alone, does not bother me, but I would like a full scope picture.

HTH, please listen to valid advice re product enhancement, the potential of your product is too good to be passed by.(My Humble opinion)

Campbell

Baldie

06-01-2006, 02:17 AM

I also wouldn't fancy using a connect 01 at night on a springer.
But that's just a very humble opinion. I'd get a second one of Geoffrey

Just to confirm, if it doesn't say 'springer-safe' on the tin, it isn't. ;) :D

Also, black-eyes don't look attractive. :o :o

sbd

06-01-2006, 06:02 AM

...you're into Goth babes :o :D

Baldie

06-01-2006, 11:22 AM

...you're into Goth babes :o :D

Got or want some pictures? :D :D

Steyr

06-01-2006, 07:59 PM

if you have done over a 1000 post you are strictly arm chair shooter ie a chair gunner....f*#### sake get out and do some shooting

I hope this was meant as a friendly jape. There are plenty of shots on this board who loose of a lot of practice shots and hunting shots and still contribute to the forum.

They impart a lot of knowledge and information and extend a welcoming hand to people new to the sport - so just coz you dont invest time in sharing knowledge with others and just pi55 off to do your own thing, please dont point accusing fingers at those that do help and shot more rounds than you.......

Finally.

Have a nice day :D

Steyr

06-01-2006, 08:29 PM

I have said before and I will say it again.

It does no good when companies hype up products then fail to supply on time or sell when they have not identified and sorted out the bugs. Customer backlash is understandable and to be expected.

This isnt a dig at SB - just a general observation and I quote the S16 and the EV2 as prime examples from high profile companies who have hyped and then failed to deliver in the time frame promised.

If you want to get all excited and dash out and spend your dosh - well fine. But the decision is/was yours. YOU MUST BE PREPARED to be dissapointed and that is the price you pay. You also run the prospect of doing a lot of the companies R&D for them.

I said earlier that a single rifle option with day and night capability will proove to be a very attractive consideration.

The Connect is very much shorter than standard rifle scopes and I have always disliked the NV unit stuck onto the eyepeice principle.

I repeat that an NV kit to the front has much more practicality to it and on a standard scope this can ONLY MEAN MORE WEIGHT UP FRONT - it dont take much thinking to realise this does it.

It strikes me that the digi NV offered by SB is the 1st of it's type so you cant expect it to be perfect. It seems to be too long and too heavy and seems to need a lot of power to run it and the illuminator.

Using the connect will redress this weight forward problem. Using your own scope will only push the weight forward. I thought that was obvious and thats why the connect is the sensible route.

I have not seen or tried the NV and I have only seen the prototype of the connect. The latter seemed to be a good solution and if it works with the NV then great. And if the NV develops and becomes shorter lighter and requires less juice then that will be sweet too.

Clive suggested using a piccy rail - this is also a good idea and if the rifle scope and NV can be taken on and off without zero shift this is another option. The use of a laser to range find and to visually "confirm" zero after re-attaching is a good idea to as was the cheek peice raiser to allow for different heights between optical scope and NV scope. I am just a little reserved at having to take off and replace scopes without having to re-zero.

Life is a compromise and this is early days.

SB got it wrong. I have no connection to SB in any way, shape or form but in fairness to them, I have never heard of a major problem between them and a customer. I have not bought anything from SB either - yet !

The equipment they use is russian. It does the job. It may be one step away from cutting edge technology but it has brought NV to many who otherwise would not have the facility to pay for western or states technology.

Look at it in perspective and if you consider it to be 20 years out of date and over priced then dont buy it or source it direct from the former russias.

It is an interesting principle. I think the optical scope will proove to be of value immediately and the NV will develop.

Watch this space.

Forth

06-01-2006, 09:54 PM

I think the optical scope will prove to be of value immediately and the NV will develop.I'm wondering if body spec of the optical scope may have suffered from it being looked on as the counterweight and back-end of a night vision system, not as a scope in its own right.

The housing of the Connect-01 is unquestionably strong enough to support a big and heavy front extension. The Connect's own mounting to the rifle is pretty solid too (no allen key needed), but have some posts indicated that there would be no support for the combined unit, other than that?

The Connect-01's optics, btw, are excellent.

Campbell

07-01-2006, 07:36 AM

Hi Forth

I understand that, when the NV is used with the Connect, the NV is mounted to the front end of the rail. If used with a convetional scope, then the NV is supported only by the junction/adapter.

The NV unit apparently weighs 1kg (without the battery), IMHO there is no way you can expect to use the NV unit, with a conventional scope, and with no means of bracing the NV unit to the rifle.

Campbell

loiner1965

07-01-2006, 11:50 AM

Interesting and very well written review by Mr Anderson.. I'm always a tad suspicious of a newbie with an axe to grind though....:rolleyes:

I am still waiting for my set up to try it out. (still no connect, still no mounts for my XVF) As I said at the start - I have a doubt about the weight.

But then, that's why I took on the distributorship. It's a chance for me to show people the kit BEFORE you part with your hard earned.

The moral? TRY BEFORE YOU BUY!!
i have had dealings with vlad over my nv scope and found the company efficient and their products top notch even though vlad english is hard to understand at times,,,,,i am with gary here as he being a distributor for vlad he will give a honest opinion as his reputation is on the line so to speak....like my friend bob he tells you as he sees it in his eyes and not the manufacturers......take garys word for it and you will not go far wrong,,,,,

Sid

08-01-2006, 12:51 AM

This also includes the overweight/ overpriced 731 models which is well thought of on this site. Without the use of an xd4/ xr5 Dep tube its still a piece of russian surplus with a heritage stretching back 20 years (or more?)

You know f--- all.

The HTH 731 was designed from the beginning to use European tubes ( or US tubes if you can get hold of them somehow ). The tube format that the 731 takes is the same as the US AN\PVS-7 military goggles. So if you buy a 731 then you have guaranteed upgrade potential.

HTH 731's aren't Russian military surplus, they are purpose built for civilian use. If you think that their 'heritage stretches back 20 years' then you are f--ed up in the head. I have owned most of the Russian military NV weaponsights and none of them are even slightly comparable to the 731, either in performance or design concept. You don't even have half a clue.

I have used NV equipment which only Special Forces units usually have access to, ( none of which had 'ATN' written on the manufacturers nameplate, you gullible prick ) and the 731 holds it's own with them in terms of image quality.

You should shut the f--k up until you know what you are talking about.

foxshot

08-01-2006, 09:31 AM

Thank you for your gracious response Sid.
You are quite right sir, I know F**ck all, have not had a chance to use a 731 with different tube options etc etc. Yes the U.S. military are not using any ATN n.v products out in the middle east as standard issue. You of cause know this having been out to the region, or have you?
They are especially not using any Atn 4.5-12 *80 day/night set ups out there either.
I will endevour to eat humble pie in future and not contribute to any threads you might possibly be actively involved in whilst you await your next issue of shooting related magazines. I have it on good authority that you don't actually physically get out much to shoot do you, rather talk about it and play with your arsenal at home. At least I am polite enough to admit I could be possibly wrong. (as for the the above type product being comparable with a 731 lets imagine this senario, of being out with a keeper of good standing in the shooting community. Fox that has been actively persued by said keeper appears at 250 metres. Now would you attempt to clean kill him with a.223 using the fine dot atn or possibly the 731 with its very clear but at the same time bold as brass reticle which takes up 3/4 of the vixens image at this range?) there again I know F**K all so couldn't possibly have been in that situation)
In the mean time I shall continue to make good use of my Kite scope with a lense quality 'comparable to the 731?' that seems to have got Sid's flatuance up.
Good day sir.

Sid

08-01-2006, 04:18 PM

Thank you for your gracious response Sid.

That's OK, I appreciated the chance to use some swear words

You are quite right sir, I know F**ck all, have not had a chance to use a 731 with different tube options etc etc.

I'd like to know what you were comparing it to if you think it's crap

Yes the U.S. military are not using any ATN n.v products out in the middle east as standard issue. You of cause know this having been out to the region, or have you?
They are especially not using any Atn 4.5-12 *80 day/night set ups out there either.

The US military have issue gear thats a little bit better than anything ATN make. I wouldn't stick my neck out far enough to say that there aren't any privately purchased ATN optics out there. I bet anyone who bought the 4.5-12X80 wishes they hadn't bothered though. It's big and heavy enough to make a good improvised weapon, it's got that going for it

I will endevour to eat humble pie in future and not contribute to any threads you might possibly be actively involved in whilst you await your next issue of shooting related magazines.

Good, you do that, you'll be waiting a long time for me to buy a shooting magazine

I have it on good authority that you don't actually physically get out much to shoot do you, rather talk about it and play with your arsenal at home.

Whose authority would that be then ? ( I can guess actually ) No-one on this BBS knows very much about me at all, other than what I choose to tell them. Anything else is made up.

At least I am polite enough to admit I could be possibly wrong. (as for the the above type product being comparable with a 731 lets imagine this senario, of being out with a keeper of good standing in the shooting community. Fox that has been actively persued by said keeper appears at 250 metres. Now would you attempt to clean kill him with a.223 using the fine dot atn or possibly the 731 with its very clear but at the same time bold as brass reticle which takes up 3/4 of the vixens image at this range?) there again I know F**K all so couldn't possibly have been in that situation)

This keeper ( whether it's you, or your mate or hypothetical, I can't tell from what you wrote ) should stop trying to use NV like a day scope or a lamping rig, then he wouldn't have to shoot at 250 metres. The 731 reticle isn't as good as a Kites, but then it isn't Kite money

In the mean time I shall continue to make good use of my Kite scope with a lense quality 'comparable to the 731?' that seems to have got Sid's flatuance up.

A 731 with a good tube is comparable to a Kite in terms of image quality, I think I have seen enough of both units to know. If you don't believe that it isn't my problem or makes it any less true. What gets my 'flatuance' up are people who don't know what they are talking about.