UK laws on NV

[StephenJH]

Carl, do you know the power limit in Eire? or if they even have one?

[Chas]

So, re-incarnated, huh? Did they have to stick the paddles on your chest and give you an AC belt[/quote]

Noooo, Silly boy.
I gave that kinky type stuff up years ago
Just a menopausal moment

Chris

[Carl Moore]

Originally Posted by StephenJH

Carl, do you know the power limit in Eire? or if they even have one?

Stephen, do you mean like the UKs "non-FAC and FAC" air rifles?
If so, then in ROI, there is no limit - ALL air rifles require a firearms certificate, with exactly the same procedures as powder burning fire arms.

HTH,

Carl.

[Carl Moore]

Originally Posted by Chas

So, re-incarnated, huh? Did they have to stick the paddles on your chest and give you an AC belt

Noooo, Silly boy.
I gave that kinky type stuff up years ago
Just a menopausal moment

Chris[/quote]

So Chas gets a "re-boot"
I havent been around in a while - but at least you kept the moniker

[StephenJH]

Originally Posted by Carl Moore

Stephen, do you mean like the UKs "non-FAC and FAC" air rifles?
If so, then in ROI, there is no limit - ALL air rifles require a firearms certificate, with exactly the same procedures as powder burning fire arms.

HTH,

Carl.

Thanks........

[ivanthehunter]

OK-

Here is part (G) of the principle act as amended under the Criminal Justice Act 2006.
A firearm is a,b,c, etc etc up to g and beyond
(g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:

(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),

(ii) a silencer designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b) or (e), and

(iii) any object—

(I) manufactured for use as a component in connection with the operation of a firearm, and

(II) without which it could not function as originally designed,



As one can clearly see, this section 'G' covers three main sets of items
(i) Is the NV stuff, (ii) is the Silencer and (iii) is pretty much anything thats related to the use of a firearm.

Firstly I would like to state that the Restricted List makes no mention of NV gear! So legally they are not restricted! As to their absolute legality and related issues such as possession and use there exists very little info. The wildlife act make statements that 'no protected animals(deer & hares etc) can be hunted with NV', so as such this leaves the door open to rats rabbits and fox.
A lot of Irish People assume that they must follow the the same licencing procedure that exist for silencers (written permission from head cop) but again no where in the law does such a requirement exist and unfortunately a Superintendent (head cop) is not permitted to issue written permission for a firearm when such firearm permission is sought in relation to activities such as hunting. Yes he could issue you NV written cert if you wished to target shoot at night. This is why the law was amended so as to specifically allow superintendent to licence Silencers.

Now up until only a month ago (or so) the www.justice.ie web site had a statement on it that stated that part (g)iii did not apply to people who were current holders of firearm certs! unfortunately they recently removed that statement but i have a screen print saved somewhere

[ivanthehunter]

LINK to point (g) http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/...026.html#sec26
That fact that section g has items that generally relate to shooting and hunting is of interest to me.
Silencers have specific laws as to there ownership and possession yet NV is in the same section of the firearms definition part (g)and yet no such laws are stated in relation to there possession and use. It would seem that no specific requirement exist! However point (iii) only reinforces the fact that NV gear (or even a standard scope or Harris bi-pod or a feckin strap) is now a firearm in its own right as it is any object used injunction with a firearm. This brings me to the licencing form.

Unfortunately the new FAC1 (firearm application cert form http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/FCA1%20(english).pdf ) contains a section 3.2 Accessories but be careful that you don't miss it. Its a one liner that has two boxes in which you must tick if you want to own and use anything thats classed as an accessory. Its bloody laughable. The one line has the word 'silencer' and a box be side and the it has the words 'Sights/Other' again with a box beside it. Now some folk reckon thats this is the place to pencil in NV scope. I however I see that this section 3.2 is open to interpretation (my interpretation). AFAIK there exists no definition in the Irish Statute book as to what defines 'Sights'. I believe that it could be argued that a laser is a sight and night vision scope is a sight but it might be more difficult to argue the toss on IR illumination devices being a sight and an add-on be nothing more than an accessory listed under 'Other'.

Besides all these issues it is also forbidden for any individual to import any item listed under (g) as Irish customs have simply copied the items with in the act in to their list of restricted imports. However one of my Dealers has assured me that he as a registered dealer is not restricted by such laws that curtail the activities of individuals.

Jesus Northern Ireland has caused (and still is causing) us Irish Shooter sever hassle!!
They wont let us reload! we're restricted at every corner. And any air rifle is a firearm and must be licenced. If you own 4 air rifles (say 12 lb/ft) you must have the same home security as if you owned 4 number .308 rifles. What a sh-t h0le! Although its a lot less populated that the UK

[Carl Moore]

As one can clearly see, this section 'G' covers three main sets of items
(i) Is the NV stuff, (ii) is the Silencer and (iii) is pretty much anything thats related to the use of a firearm.

Firstly I would like to state that the Restricted List makes no mention of NV gear! So legally they are not restricted!

The point is that according to the Act (1990 amended since then but without changing the point) is that firearm mountable night vision is classified as being a firearm in its own right, ergo by its nature it is restricted. It requires all the same paperwork as if it were a fire arm.

As to their absolute legality and related issues such as possession and use there exists very little info.

Not true. They are legal to own in ROI once they are licenced correctly.

The wildlife act make statements that 'no protected animals(deer & hares etc) can be hunted with NV', so as such this leaves the door open to rats rabbits and fox.

Correct

A lot of Irish People assume that they must follow the the same licencing procedure that exist for silencers (written permission from head cop) but again no where in the law does such a requirement exist and unfortunately a Superintendent (head cop) is not permitted to issue written permission for a firearm when such firearm permission is sought in relation to activities such as hunting. Yes he could issue you NV written cert if you wished to target shoot at night. This is why the law was amended so as to specifically allow superintendent to licence Silencers.

?????????

Now up until only a month ago (or so) the www.justice.ie web site had a statement on it that stated that part (g)iii did not apply to people who were current holders of firearm certs! unfortunately they recently removed that statement but i have a screen print saved somewhere

Irrelevant, even if it was there it makes no difference - see above.

Unfortunately the new FAC1 (firearm application cert form http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/FCA1%20(english).pdf ) contains a section 3.2 Accessories but be careful that you don't miss it. Its a one liner that has two boxes in which you must tick if you want to own and use anything thats classed as an accessory. Its bloody laughable. The one line has the word 'silencer' and a box be side and the it has the words 'Sights/Other' again with a box beside it. Now some folk reckon thats this is the place to pencil in NV scope. I however I see that this section 3.2 is open to interpretation (my interpretation). AFAIK there exists no definition in the Irish Statute book as to what defines 'Sights'. I believe that it could be argued that a laser is a sight and night vision scope is a sight but it might be more difficult to argue the toss on IR illumination devices being a sight and an add-on be nothing more than an accessory listed under 'Other'.

So why dont you get onto the FPU and ask them?

Besides all these issues it is also forbidden for any individual to import any item listed under (g) as Irish customs have simply copied the items with in the act in to their list of restricted imports.

I am sure that Irish customs are just like any other - enforcing the law. Any of the items on "G" are considered firearms, so naturally customs will make sure that any imports comply with the law.

However one of my Dealers has assured me that he as a registered dealer is not restricted by such laws that curtail the activities of individuals.

Correct, provided correct licencing procedures are observed.

Jesus Northern Ireland has caused (and still is causing) us Irish Shooter sever hassle!!

Nothing to do with Northern ireland - this act was passed in 1990, but yet no such restrictions were placed on night vision in the UK of GB and NI.

[ivanthehunter]

Hi Carl,

It is true! that very little info exists as to their overall legality. Some people still think that the could be illegal to have and impossible to licence but gladly i am not one of them. And as far as i know the dealers will hand them out over the counter with no questions asked as they are, AFAIK not legally bound to see a licence for such objects before they supply to anybody-either that or i have a friendly dealer
Ultimately there exist no text in the Irish Statute books that explicitly refer to these items as illegal.

We also then have difficulty in buying due to a total lack of dealer who stock NV gear. When i asked my dealer if he could supply a NV unit he said that it was no problem and that he could order via the deb-an mail order

Somewhere down deep in the pit of my stomach i have a feeling that if these units dont gain some open popularity soon then the Gov is going to clam down on this.

Looking back now at the Irish Gov's over attention to soft targets such as the shooting community is seems laughable when really they should have being dealing with issues that protected the economy!!

[Baldie]

Interesting read.

Not sure I'm any wiser, but made interesting reading.



I think some people/shooters believe owning/using NV comes with the same rights as having the vote. [And us peasants having the vote is relatively new benefit of citizenship BTW.]

There are other countries in Europe, indeed in the EU, who have restrictions on the ownership of NV weaponscopes. We Brits are fairly lucky we have unrestricted use, as we pretty much do with sound moderators (for hunting).


As for using NV weaponscopes in ROI ...... If a farmer wanted one to help stop foxes eating his stock, I would imagine it completely plausible the farmers license would be amended to show authorisation for NV use. If a target shooter living in a city wanted some NV, I suppose the Gard might rightly be a bit reluctant to just 'rubber-stamp' the change?

Thinking ROI Customs prevent 'firearms' grade weaponscopes coming into their country doesn't seem very likely to me, as I don't think they are even in the loop if the goods are shipped from another EU country? Certainly UK Customs don't seem capable of stopping unlicensed chambered barrels being exported here from the US ....

No wonder I didn't get calls/emails returned from Eire. I can't see how anyone could enforce the law unless the owner was doing something daft?


...

[ivanthehunter]

Originally Posted by gouldian

I'm pretty sure that an Irish shooter was taken to court within the last few years when shooting with an Archer add on. I believe that the case was thrown out of Court. If you look on U tube a guy mounted a Sony video camera behind a scope to shoot rats (brilliant videos by the way). I know its stretching the point a bit but you could do the same with any rifle so technically its similiar to an add on as in itself it does not have any aiming facility. As for the Irish forum I take it that you're talking about shooting boards.ie. What a depressing place.

Any info on this court case would be greatly received.

Thank Gouldian.

regards Ivan

[ivanthehunter]

Originally Posted by Baldie

Interesting read.

Not sure I'm any wiser, but made interesting reading.




...

I glad you liked it! - reading it from the comfort of you liberal NV infested country

[Baldie]

Originally Posted by ivanthehunter

I glad you liked it! - reading it from the comfort of you liberal NV infested country

[gouldian]

Ivan I can't link you to any info on the case unfortunately. You can ask on shooting boards.ie (though I note your previous comments about the site) because that's where I saw it mentioned.