Club Membership Fee - What's yours ?

[Rockphoon]

The club I am talking about is already affiliated to the NSRA and has the requisite insurance. Personally, I have been a member of the NSRA for a long time. However, it is naive to think that insurance will pay out for every claim and it certainly would never cover the total cost of serious damage to the range or kit. The NSRA can barely afford to keep Aldersley or Lord Roberts Centre maintained so I would not rely on them to find us a new range if we lost ours. That is one of many reasons why clubs should be building up substantial funds for the future and why members should be willing to pay subs or range fees or both that allow those funds to be built up.

[Hemmers]

Originally Posted by doctordoom

So my sailing club (PCC) which runs a points system for allocation of club moorings based on work party attendance, number of times boat sailed in last season and years of continuous membership is breaking the law??
There should be some benefit to members who contribute as opposed to those who don't, thats what being a club member is all about. Take care; John.

Having checked the article again, I did get my lines slightly crossed. I will scan it in eventually, but the scanner is part of the printer which is currently throwing a hissy over an empty ink cartridge, and won't even let me scan till it is replaced.
In the meantime, it is a long article published in 2 parts in the Winter 2008/09 and Spring 2009 editions of the Rifleman.

Notably, it mentions that organisations should care for volunteers in much the same way as it would employees.
Technically, this means having people trained to use ladders, having members with the full 3-day H&S in the Workplace First Aid course, all the appropriate signage around the place, doing appropriate courses, etc, etc.

More pertinently however, is the topic of finance (which is where I got mixed up).

You are either a volunteer or an employee. An volunteer can be paid reasonable expenses.
This means that giving Joe a bottle of Scotch or a case of wine for mowing the ranges makes him an employee, and as such, he must (by law) be paid minimum wage. The same applies to forwarding honorariums to coaches, scorers, match officials, etc (e.g. presenting the club President or Secretary with a bottle of something at the club AGM or annual dinner for a job well done). They become employees.

You would get away with a few club members buying a dedicated member a gift privately. On the club accounts however, it is dangerous ground.

For an individual to receive a discount or preferential moorings based on them attending work parties is extremely dodgy ground, I would venture possibly illegal, unless the renumeration they receive amounts to more than the national minimum wage for the work done. I suspect the only reason it hasn't been stopped yet is that noone has noticed, or that your Treasurer knows, and engages creative accounting to hide such practices from the auditors.

Don't get me wrong, clubs should be free to do this, and should be free to reward the members who make the club exist, who do the paperwork and maintain the facilities. Unfortunately, the role of the volunteer is not really defined in law, there is just lots of legislation a volunteer can stray into very easily (such as employment law), as the law does not make allowance for minor renumeration of volunteers. To this end, the tax offices, auditors and HSE can sort of make it up as they go along, pulling in bits of law that suit their needs, meaning that clubs need to watch their step very carefully.

Originally Posted by Rockphoon

The club I am talking about is already affiliated to the NSRA and has the requisite insurance. Personally, I have been a member of the NSRA for a long time. However, it is naive to think that insurance will pay out for every claim and it certainly would never cover the total cost of serious damage to the range or kit. The NSRA can barely afford to keep Aldersley or Lord Roberts Centre maintained so I would not rely on them to find us a new range if we lost ours. That is one of many reasons why clubs should be building up substantial funds for the future and why members should be willing to pay subs or range fees or both that allow those funds to be built up.

If the club's property is insured for a given amount, they should cover that amount. You have a legally binding contract. Certainly Perkins Slade who provide the NSRA's cover for affiliated clubs were very helpful in replacing a damged rifle a couple of years back, paying out the the amount for which the rifle was insured, not just the value of the rifle, which allowed us to replace it most satisfactorily.

I do not disagree that clubs should have reserves put by for contingencies, but if a club were to simply replace equipment out of their own pocket after an incident, without fully following up the insurance they have been paying for, and extracting the largest possible payout, then the committee members responsible would (IMO) be eligible for a good slapping.

It's what insurance companies are there for, and a service the club pays for (and will hopefully never have to use). If the club does need it, they should claim everything they are entitled to.

[Rockphoon]

Originally Posted by Hemmers

If the club's property is insured for a given amount, they should cover that amount. You have a legally binding contract. Certainly Perkins Slade who provide the NSRA's cover for affiliated clubs were very helpful in replacing a damged rifle a couple of years back, paying out the the amount for which the rifle was insured, not just the value of the rifle, which allowed us to replace it most satisfactorily.

I do not disagree that clubs should have reserves put by for contingencies, but if a club were to simply replace equipment out of their own pocket after an incident, without fully following up the insurance they have been paying for, and extracting the largest possible payout, then the committee members responsible would (IMO) be eligible for a good slapping.

It's what insurance companies are there for, and a service the club pays for (and will hopefully never have to use). If the club does need it, they should claim everything they are entitled to.

Nobody is saying that clubs should not make the most of the insurance that they have and should claim everything that they are entitled to. However, insurance will not cover the full, realistic cost of every claim. If our range burnt down, would every single expense, such as the cost of using alternative ranges and the cost of replaciong every single piece of furniture, every shooting mat and sling, be covered by insurance? I am not so sure. We also have no way of being sure that insurance will continue to be avalaible in the future. It is not even certain that organisations like the NSRA will even exist in years to come. The NSRA runs at a loss and only keeps going due to the dedication of it's members and staff. When certain key staff retire, we cannot be certain if it will continue to exist. That is another good reason why clubs should build up substantial funds to guard against future contingencies.

[Hemmers]

I was under the impression the NSRA posted a profit in the last year, although I can't lay my hand on my copy of the accounts from the 08-09 year, so can't check.

In any case, the NSRA is now run by the new CEO Allan Boosey - a successful sports management professional - not by well meaning shooting enthusiasts with limited business acumen as has been the stage in some points of their history. He is implementing wholesale changes to make the NSRA profitable and having spoken to him several times (including being interviewed and rejected by him for a job at the NSRA), I have lttle doubt in his competency.

The era of the Army not coming through with their block of funding for the LRC (which almost sent them bankrupt in 2002), and the further discovery that Association Secretary John Hoare had been embezzling money which cost the NSRA ~£150k is over. The NSRA is making great strides as a modern association. It is not going away.
The same can be said of the NRA, which is paying off debt hand over fist and making great improvements to the way it does business and as I say, has even been in a position to extend loans to clubs to help them secure land when they ranges looked to be sold from under them.

Do not mistake these organisations for the Victorian dinosaurs they were in the '90s. They are modernising, they are becoming more efficient, and I have little doubt they will be going strong in 20 years time.

[sniper22]

contrary to rumours abound re the fees at bolton quarrymen, we are a syndicate of ten members and will be paying £50 each to use the quarry 7 days a week if we want to with no further fees required.
limited to the syndicate members only, this keeps the club a friendly place to enjoy the fun with airguns.

[Rockphoon]

The NSRA AGM report for 1 August 2009 states that the NSRA made a loss in the 2008 accounts. I am not sure if the 2008/9 accounts are available yet. However, whether the shooting organisations are making a profit or a loss, it is unwise for clubs to rely on the shooting organisations to bail them out of trouble in the future or even to be able to continue providing insurance in the future. Clubs should be trying to build up funds to rely on in case of future difficulties.

[target_master]

I guess the answers to any clubs finances are clearly laid out in the accounts.

[Smokeless Coal]

£115 a year, £5 range fee, free targets. Airgunners half price.
25m indoor for anything that can be legally held and is under max range certificate power, (think its 750ft/lb). Open 5 evenings a week+Sunday and often Saterday.
Space outside for airguns to 47m.
MOD range couple of times a month £15ish a head.
180 members.

We just paid £100,000 for revamp, work it out for yourself how you would finance that. Backstop plates cost over £1000 and need replacing couple of times a year, linatex curtain £1500 again twice a year. Its not cheap running a range. And the RO's turn up for free, every week, but get grumbled at if they have to have a day off or are late.

[Coney2]

Clubs who own their premises and are responsible for the full cost of maintenance of the place do indeed have to find prodigious amounts of money if they are to keep up a decent standard of accomodation. Its different for those linked to sports centres or colleges where they simply pay a rent to a landlord and are in effect subsidised.
I can't help noticing how many clubs have range fees which are also deceptive - for me to shoot at the above club as I currently do would cost me a minimum of £550 per year if I understand the charges correctly. Even 2 sessions per week would cost more than the £240pa that sparked this thread's resurrection.
B

[bodders]

I have been reading the many posts that have appeared since this subject was raised, indeed by one of our members. Thanks to those who have put up constructive points, and I guess the others are the people who just turn up at there clubs, shoot, moan then go home. On average I spend 10 hours a week on work associated with the club, this to include paperwork, maintenance and opening up the club, as do the other few active committee members. Part of our club constitution is that members are expected to help with these tasks, on becoming a member, but quickly or dont bother to acknowledge this fact. If we could have a more active membership, the subs would not go up, but why should a few people give up all there time to keep the club running and in good order, for not even a thank you.

The members at Glevum are not forced to join or stay, everything is up front and explained, like it was at our last AGM, pity more members did not attend.

I have shot at many clubs, and our members do not appreciate what they have. Where can you shoot from airsoft, archery,crossbow,air rifle, rim fire and centre fire all for £4.60 a week.

Glevum Chairman

[bullencraig]

At the moment we pay £95 per year inc range fees and target though this is due to go uptp £120 per year next october. still works out chepaer for me as until the last agm it was £65 per year then £2 per week and then your targets onto top of that. Going twice a week that worked out quite alot of beer money lol! New pay structure works out loads cheaper for regular users like like me ....... not so good for the members that only shoot once in a blue moon. Though in my opinion whats the point in being a member of a club if you only shoot 4 times a year???

craig