Accuracy is superb and shoots as well as my 77, recoil is solid and mild straight back. More recoil than the 77 but not much and it's not hold sensitive.
Could you please give me some advice. I have bought a second hand TX200HC and decided to fit an AA master service Kit.
I followed the tuning guide found it very easy to strip fit and reassemble the TX. But now it is only doing 7.5 ft lb.
Accuracy is superb and shoots as well as my 77, recoil is solid and mild straight back. More recoil than the 77 but not much and it's not hold sensitive.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/516/10013314lp.jpg Stuff on the box.
Good moly does not burn unless you use excess, it's the only thing to use on seals. The surface of the comp tube must be honed for a wet edge if you want any performance over time.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/516/10013314lp.jpg Stuff on the box.
The back block screws into the cylinder but there is no "cup like" depression as in the Webley Mark3 for instance, so that when reassembling under the pressure of the spring, I found the back of the spring guide kept slipping off the block and preventing the threads from engaging. I cut a piece of plastic waste pipe, 28mm a few inches longer than the block to act as a collar. This collar stops the rear of the spring guide slipping sideways and makes the reassembly much easier singlehanded.
Hi airgunners across the Atlantic. Below it a story of a farm/ranch pest control hunt I did recently. Sorry about sticking it here, but I don't have new thread priviledges.
Also, here in California, USA, we may do things differently enough to not be minding what would be necessary P's and Q's (manners and behavior) for English hunts. So I hope the Administrators will correct me if I am in any way, doing improper stuff per your customs and rules.
This story is about airgun hunting the local, large (tree squirrel-size) California ground squirrels, a pest species here.
Anyway, here is a story (one of my shorter ones) for your cheers&jeers consideration:
Robert Hamilton, California, USA Dec07
FARM PEST HUNT REPORT: Only got 31 ground squirrels but had chances at almost 100.
My hunt yielded 31 adult California ground squirrels at the cattle grazing pastures, but I should have gotten a lot more.
DECEMBER HUNTING IN CALIFORNIA:
Last winter here in central, coastal California was dry. As was 2007 Spring, Summer and Fall. And now, it is December and still very little rain year to date.
But rain or not, around here, even in the Winter, if the day is a bit warm and sunny, some ground squirrels will be out of their holes. Today was no exception.
CATTLE GRAZING LANDS:
The landowner was not going to be around on the hunt day, but promised to leave the master key for the gates. The weather forecast was for yet another cold morning, warmer afternoon, but basically it was forecast to be a sunny day. More of the same weather we have been having all year. A blind, deaf and dumb weatherman could predict as well as long as he could speak and write the words “fair” and “sunny”.
The only rain we have had for almost the entire year was a light and brief rain of a couple weeks ago. That light rain shower had greened the round-topped hills around here. Green grass of a few inches in height gave some color to the previously straw-colored hills of over-grazed, parched and thirsty range grass flats and low, round-top hills.
A previous ground squirrel hunt here showed me that there was no reason to arrive too early, what with the ground squirrels staying underground until the sun warmed things up. And I had not gotten to bed until after 2AM anyway. Without coffee nor a Red Bull, I could expect to behave in a calm, measured manner for the hunt, if not comatose.
Regardless, I set the alarm clock for 6:30AM as I wanted to do some target shooting prior to the actual hunting.
6:30Am was far too late a setting for a serious crow hunting. It was about the right time to get up for a serious farm pest bird hunter on a local farm. But indeed early for late year ground squirrel hunting.
ARRIVAL AT THE GROUND SQUIRREL LANDS:
I did not arrive at the cattle grazing lands until about 8AM. But lingering coastal overcast hid the sun. The temperature was a bit cold, but putting on my ancient, tattered, 40 year old brown canvas duck hunting coat was plenty enough. I have never been one to toss clothing just because it was no longer new. Air was calm, as winter season mornings are generally here.
I drove in and parked the car by the wood plank-fenced cattle corral and loading chute. I opened the car door and stepped out.. Ah! But the air was fresh and clean. And put my hunting boot right into a fresh dog turd. Ick!
And not just any dog turd. This one was not just fresh, but real big. And long.
Either this testament to canine dining came from a large dog who had been over consuming. Or a small dog that was now walking funny and still sore. For the rest of the day and over the course of a couple miles of walkabouting, I never saw another dog pile.
My boot stunk for hours.
The car was my wife’s. It was nice and clean. My wife has a very keen nose. Oops.
No squirrels out, but a couple hundred blackbirds and starlings sat on the plank and post cattle corral fences. An earlier ground squirrel hunt here had shown that 9AM was when the ground squirrels here, started emerging from their den holes to forage and sun bath. But my plan was to put my too early arrival to good use. I had brought along my .177 Beeman R1 break barrel springer to punch some paper with.
My R1 was one I have had for quite a few years, but have not used for years. It is my closet queen second in hunting uselessness only to my FWB124.
BEEMAN R1 AT 1,024 FPS MACCARI KIT, WITH CPLITES:
Years ago, I had put a Maccari full power kit in my R1 and after settling-in, was getting a consistent 1,000 fps power level. Bragging power. Magnumitus Club membership level power.
In fact, it last chronographed at 1,024 fps with 7.9 gr Crosman Premier Lites (cplites), fingertip seated. Good groups too. With only my usual folding camp chair and camera stand rest shooting range setup, the R1 put five cplites into a 2.0” ctc group, at 100 yards. Trajectory was fairly flat. Firing action was fast and crisp. Like a gas ram in fast, twang-less action. Really great! What more could I ask for?
Well, how about field accuracy? I had repeatedly taken this full power R1 on farm pest hunts for ground squirrels, feral pigeons and crows. But despite having a carefully done, every 5 yds, from 5 to 100 yds, trajectory plot based on actual shooting sessions at the range, using a three point sitting rest, when actually hunting with the R1, it rarely hit where the trajectory plot said it should. Making it pretty useless as a farm pest hunter.
Three point sitting rested shooting is when my right elbow (I’m right handed) is resting on the padded arm of my folding camp chair and left/forearm-holding hand is resting on the foam pad on top my camera stand rest.
Two point sitting rested shooting is when the right elbow is floating (in the air/no support) and the left/forearm-holding hand is resting on the top of my camera stand rest.
Two point standing rested shooting is when I am standing. The adjustable camera stand rest is adjusted higher to let me stand and comfortably rest my left/forearm hand rest on the stand’s foam pad, and my right elbow is floating/no support.
Generally, I farm pest hunt all my shots using a 2 point standing rest position. Hitting as small of a target as the vitals of a starling at 40 yds or a ground squirrel at 60 yds requires I have a steady rest.
But the R1 at over 1,000 fps was too hold sensitive to be a successful hunter. Too many times, I would completely miss the ground squirrel at 30 or more yards because while my trajectory plot told me where the poi (point of impact) was with a 3 point sitting rest, but the poi was an inch or more off when shooting with a 2 point standing rest. Or a 2 point sitting rest.
Though that was still better than my old FWB124 which I would zero and trajectory plot with a 3 point sitting rest, then drag along the camp chair and camera stand rest and take only 3 point sitting rest shots while actually hunting and still see sudden vertical poi shifts of a couple inches at 45 or so yards.
BEEMAN R1 AT 945 FPS WITH 7.9 GR CPLITES:
A few years back, Maccari had been working with what he called “Aussie wire” or words similar. As I recall, he had gotten good results with this special and expensive wire in RWS sidelevers. At my request, Maccari had made me a kit using this interesting spring wire for my R1. It gave me about 950 fps with my R1 and cplites and I later put the 1,000+ fps Maccari kit back in the R1 and stuck the R1 950 fps Aussie wire kit away. I liked the 1,000+ fps JM kit because it was a short spring, 28 coils (?). So short, there was so little preload that I did not need a spring compressor. Really convenient.
But now, I pulled the JM 1,000+ fps kit and re-installed the Aussie wire tune kit. Very nice. Smooth and crisp action. A longer spring so my Randy Gunn model spring compressor was needed to install. I was getting initially about 920 fps with cplites, but soon it built up to about 940 to 950 fps. But a range session showed me that at 60 yds, the 950 fps Aussie wire kit was giving me about one inch vertical poi difference between a 2 pt sitting w/rest hold and a 2 pt standing w/rest hold, at 60 yds.
I define hold sensitivity as when varying the hold varies the poi. And my minimum test for non-hold sensitivity is that the gun at least shoots the same poi both 2 pt sitting w/rest and 2 pt standing w/rest.
So the JM Aussie wire kit was a hold-sensitivity improvement. But still had some hold sensitivity. Plinkers and informal target shooters/hunters may not view hold sensitivity as an issue. Serious farm pest hunters may beg to differ.
BEEMAN R1 AT 875 FPS WITH 7.9 GRAIN CPLITES (MACCARI 13 FT/LB SPRING):
Maybe I could have worked with the R1 using the Aussie wire kit. But a few years back, Maccari had offered a 13 ft/lb muzzle energy tune kit for the R1 and I had bought it and never tried it. Tony, of the Doug&Tony farm pest hunting team’s postings about his detuned airgun successes inspired me to follow in his leadership, and finally try the JM R1 13 ft/lb ME tune kit. After all, if Tony can detune that springer monster, the RWS350 down to 9 or 10 ft/lbs ME and be pleased, then I could surely try the 13 ft/lb Maccari kit.
The 13 ft/lb JM R1 tune kit, how did it work?
Well, the JM 13 ft/lb spring was a lllooonnnggg spring of heavy wire just like the JM full power short spring. O.D. was slightly bigger too. Big enough that the spring was too big to fit into my 12.6 oz Venom Lazaglide R1 piston. Lucky me, I still had my buttoned 11.9 oz R1 factory piston. The factory R1 piston had a slightly bigger I.D. than the Venom piston and the JM 13 ft/lb spring went in without a millimeter to spare.
I needed a piston seal on the factory R1 piston and put one of Maccari’s precison-made orange synthetic R1 piston seals on the piston.
Then, after a very light coat of JM velocity tar on the spring sides and outside, and a slight amount of Beeman moly grease on the white JM synthetic guides, the R1 went back together. Randy Gunn spring compressor a must.
650 FPS WITH CPLITES, WHAT?@##@!:
Ok, cocking was easier but 7.9 gr cplites were only giving me about 650 fps. With a 13 ft/lb spring? What was going on here?!
UNDERSIZED JM R1 PISTON SEAL AND OVERSIZED JM R1 REAR GUIDE;
Well, the Maccari piston seal was undersized. Nice seal. Harder material than the soft nylon, parachute HW factory piston seals, but at least in this R1, definitely undersized. Without the spring in the R1, the Maccari sealed piston all but moved with simple tilting the compression tube up and down. Gravity enough to move the piston. Oops. Better go back to the factory R1 piston seal.
Another problem. When I had installed the Maccari 13 ft/lb tune kit, the base of the rear guide was a real tight fit, but as I was using the spring compressor, I did not realize how tight a fit. Well, it was so tight a fit, that even as I unscrewed the R1’s end block, the 13 ft/lb spring lacked the power to push the end of the rear spring guide out of the R1 compression tube. What I should have done would have been to try to insert the tune kit into the R1 compression tube backwards. That is, rear guide base first. That would have detected the over-sized rear guide base.
Heroic measures finally dislodged the JM 13 spring guide out of the R1 compression tube by partly unscrewing the end cap and then violently and strongly (with the trigger block out of the gun), slamming the piston against the base of the rear guide in a repeated hammering action. Eventually, I was able to hammer the JM tune kit rearwards enough that I then could take a large, rectangular cross section gunsmith screwdriver and jam it into the rear guide hole the piston stem passes through, put a wrench on the screwdriver shaft, and with a lot of effort, screw the JM rear guide out the threaded end of the R1 compression tube.
Amazingly, the R1’s barrel was not bent and the R1 cocking shoe was not damaged beyond use. More amazing was that I didn’t break the JM rear guide.
Another point of interest in the Maccari R1 rear guide was that it was so tight on the spring, that upon firing, the spring was unable to fully expand. The coils still on the rear guide were noticeably still partly compressed while on the forward portion of the 13 ft/lb spring, the coils were fully expanded. Talk about a tune kit that was made tight enough to need a “wear in” period. No spring twang was going to happen due to loose guides on this baby!
Lucky me, I had a spare R1 factory piston seal and could dump the JM piston seal and install a factory seal. How did that affect chronograph performance?
WVED (ED CANOLES) GUIDES:
Well, first things first. I had a spare JM 13 ft/lb spring and just for fun, sent the mis-fitting JM 13 ft/lb tune kit and a spare JM 13 ft/lb spring to WVED (Ed Canoles the custom piston crafter). Ed makes his own guides, though is more of a Beeman R9 guy than a R1 guy. But I hoped he could lathe the Maccari rear guide down to size and also, due to his precision work and reasonable prices, make me a guide set for the spare 13 ft/lb spring while he was at it.
Which, WVED did. He turned the job around and the mailman delivered a box from
WVED within a couple weeks of my original mailing.
WVED was not able to remove the JM spring off the JM rear guide, so he was not able to lathe down the JM rear guide. I did it later the clumsy and less precise way holding the JM tune kit in one hand and a file in the other and filing away on the O.D. of the rear guide base, while slowly turning the kit. In about an hour, I had the JM kit where it would fit snug and still be removable.
But the delrin/steel base WVED guide set was so pretty, precise and of “can’t pull the spring off but coils expand fully on shooting” tight, that I wanted to try WVED’s work first. The filed down JM kit could wait for later.
I put the R1 back together, factory piston with the factory parachute piston seal on it with a little Beeman moly grease on the sides, and after some warm up shooting, chronied I the R1 with the 13 ft/lb kit again.
13 FT/LBS ME WITH THE 13 FT/LB ME MACCARI SPRING AND WVED GUIDES:
With the JM 13 ft/lb ME spring and its WVED guides, instantly, I was getting about 875 fps with 7.9 gr cplites, which was about what one should expect out of the kit, that is about 13.4 ft/lbs M.E.
Ok, all was well. Firing was still crisp but more sedate. Cocking effort was more like my Beeman R9 now. My R9 having similar power, so that made sense.
R1 LESS HOLD SENSITIVE AT 13 FT/LBS:
At the range, the 13 ft/lb JM/WVED kitted R1 was pleasant to shoot and for sure, easier to cock. Groups were reasonable, both with 7.9 gr cplites and 8.4 gr JSB Exact 4.52 domes. For instance, despite about a 15 mph cross wind, the 13 ft/lb R1 put five JSB Exacts into a 1.0” ctc group at 60 yds with using a 2 pt sitting with rest hold.
But the wind was blowing too much to allow creation of a trajectory plot chart that I could have confidence in. So the R1 awaits a calm air, 5 to 80 yd trajectory plotting session at the range. But there is hope. Time will tell more if I finally had a good hunter in my Beeman R1.
BACK TO THE HUNT:
Having arrived before the ground squirrels emerged this hunt morning, I took some time to test the 13 ft/lb R1 for hold sensitivity. The air this early in the morning was almost dead calm. So I set out a cardboard box with three one inch black ink marker-drawn bulls on it, at a Bushnell laser rangefinder-measured 60 yds. I shot sitting in my inexpensive aluminum Costco, folding camp chair. The one with padded arm rests.
I shot three ten pellet groups at 60 yds. One group was 3 pt sitting rested; one was 2 pt sitting rested; and one was 2 pt standing rested. At 60 yds, the 2 pt sitting and 2 pt standing had the same poi. The 3 pt sitting rested group poi was about 2/3” lower.
9:30AM and it was time to stop the target session. The sun was out. The overcast was breaking up and using my Bushnell 6x25mm Custom Compact binoculars, I could see a few ground squirrels dotting the rain-greened, flat lands of the fenced cattle pastures. Not many, but enough to be worth a try for.
The R1 went back into the cheap, black plastic hard case and back into the car. I was getting a late start anyway and these late in the year days are short. No time to experiment nor play.
So out came the .177 AirArms TX200 Mk3. A very good springer for ground squirrel hunting. Hold insensitive. It cocks without tiring me, is accurate, and a short, handy yet heavy and stable springer. Pre-hunt, right after a fresh barrel clean (cplites being a bore-fouling pellet), it chronied 7.9 gr cplites at 905 fps. Later, post hunt the same day, that evening, I got 880 fps. It had a Maccari TX200 tune kit installed approx. 500 pells ago. Still settling in? Or was it the difference between a dirty bore and a clean with a light oil coated bore?
Regardless, I like my TX200’s also because CHAIRGUN, the computer generated trajectory plotting software matches my real life, actual shooting session trajectory plots. Wish I could say the same for my Weihrauch/Beeman break barrel springers though.
ALL DAY IN THE SAME 20 ACRES:
The cattle pastures I spent the entire, short December day hunting, were only an estimated 20 acres. The big, adult California ground squirrels were thinly scattered, but there were enough to keep me busy. All day. Especially so because the weather conditions changed.
CURSED BY WIND:
I had thought I would have all day with calm or low winds. While summers tend to be calm mornings and windy afternoons, winter days here are often enough calm or low winds only, all day. Not today.
The hunt started out with my cherished dead calm wind. So calm that after my morning Beeman R1 target session and before I put it away, I even took one shot with the R1 at a starling mixed in with a hundred or so blackbirds, the starling sitting on top a tall, wood, power line post. Distance was about 35 yards.
At the R1’s shot, the starling flew off, angling down, hanging a leg. It would have been more of a slam dunk shot with my Beeman R7. I was more practiced with the R7. Goes to show that 6.5 ft/lbs with a precise trajectory plot chart beats 13 ft/lb R1’s without. Definitely the R1 needed more range time and more work on a trajectory plot.
With the TX200, I hunted in a leisurely walkabout manner up and down the cattle pastures, covering about 1/3 mile up and then hunting back again. I spent most of my time in the middle of the pasture flatlands where a small rise and est.15 foot high cut bank in the side of a low hill touching one part of the pasture, harbored a small squirrel colony of about 40 squirrels.
I shot with a 2 pt rest off the Samsonite adjustable camera stand rest, sometimes sitting, sometimes standing. Rains forecast but the ground still dry. The squirrels were kind of spooky. I found that after a few shots, they went down their holes and after about 30-40 minutes the colony squirrels still had not re-emerged. Someone had probably been firearm hunting them recently to spook them this much.
The wind was my worst problem though. Squirrel spook distance was never beyond 70 yards and the TX200 was good to 70 yds. In calm air.
But I was not getting the calm air I needed for longer shots. The wind unexpectedly became strong and brisk out of the west and stayed about 20 mph all day. I saw maybe 90 squirrels total. I was only getting about one in three that I tried for. I had hoped to pretty much clear this pasture of most of its squirrels today.
By 3:30PM, the hills to the west were casting shadows over the cattle pasture. The squirrels disappearance once the shadows shaded the pasture fields made today a shortened hunt. The day ended up with only 31 ground squirrels.
I got home early.
Better luck next time?
Robert Hamilton, California, along the Pacific Ocean coast
1 Dec 07
I am not familiar with stripping the Webley Tempest/Typhoon/Hurricane series, but I believe it is quite simple and actually Webley used to sell them with information on how to do this.
I suggest you post a question on the General section, asking for advice on stripping and reassembling your pistol, and then follow the advice in the tuning guide. Someone is sure to send you a copy of the stripping manual.
The pistol you have is now a collector's item as they are no longer made, and also they are very nice to shoot so they are worth keeping in good order.
This thread covers most of the strip...
Last edited by Hsing-ee; 25-01-2008 at 08:17 AM.
If you want to replace a leather washer with a high-quality plastic one, then Jim Maccari sells some which might fit your rifle and they are inexpensive.
Alternatively, T.R.Robb makes PTFE ones which may or may not be an improvement on the original.
Last edited by Hsing-ee; 08-06-2008 at 10:11 PM.
I havent stipped an airgun down since i used to do my Diana model 16 which was just after the ice age!!!!!
I bought a Boxer spring and new piston seal and breach washer and the washer behind the piston for my old BSA Mercury mk2
I actualy thought they has sent me the wrong piston washer as it wasnt leather!!!!!!!
so i stipped it down and put some wet an dry paper 1000 grade on a broom stick and sprayed WD40 in there and gently cleaned out the air chamber.
When i put i back together i nicked the O ring for the piston so i looked in my o ring box and found a near as dam it one and put it all back together but first washing out the air chamber with some WD 40 . And putting some down the barrel.
Eventualy got the bugger back together without any spring compresser and its superb.Quite a super little gun.
Now i dont understand why your all saying dont use this or clean with that if it works the old fashion way why change it????
Lots of people have used the Tuning Guide to make their guns better. Also, it is a tune that has been in use for the last 29 years so I think that it counts as 'the old fashioned way' at least as much as scrubbing with abrasive paper and WD40.
If you follow the instructions you will have a nice, smooth accurate rifle that will last a long time and will be a pleasure to shoot. Lubing with WD40 and changing the spring and seal will give a workable gun, but it won't give anywhere near the best performance it is capable of. If you HAD followed the guide then you would have smoothed out the cocking slot and you would not have knicked your seal.
Read it and try the guide, you might be pleasantly suprised!
Last edited by Hsing-ee; 09-06-2008 at 10:10 PM.
Just like to say that I read through lots of tips from this site before attempting to strip down and rebuild my Webley Mk3 (many thanks to all who contributed). the gun had been dry stored under the stairs since the late 1970s with just the odd wipe down and pellet through it every few years but, was seriously underpowered and all the grease had solidified.
I stripped down every moving part, gave the barrel a good pull through and light lube, degreased and cleaned everything before applying new grease and lube, fitted a new spring and PTFE seal which took a little wate with all the wet and dry rubbing but, now moves up and down the cylinder with gentle but firm finger pressure and sounds like a bicycle pump. Put motorcycle chain lube on the new spring to dampen it down while I sealed the loading port barrel with MB grease and ensured a thin smear of gasket sealant went around the edge of the cover plate. With the loading port in the "load" position, working the underlever cocking arm back to the point where it almost engages the trigger, and then letting it go back again will result in a pleasant Pssst once the loading port is flipped back to the firing position, indicatin a good seal.
All in all the gun is now rejuvenated, much more powerful and smooth and was instantly shooting around 2" higher than the scope had previously been set for at 25 yards although it has taken around 100 pellets to start grouping decently as it was obviously bedding in.
hi guys,i have been helping a freind today putting in a gas fire,looking for some bits in his shed i spotted a gun case in the corner.he said it was a air gun,i said can i have a look he said yes,so i took it out of the bag it is a webly vulcan.22.it`s been neglected to say the least,stock needs a revarnish,the bluing is pitted with rust,but the barrel bore was clean no rust which surprised me,it has a trigger guard,i think it might be 20 years old but thats a guess,it also had iron sights a one time,i gave it a clean took the crap scope of and put one of my own on it,but i could not get it on the target,when i break the barrel it has bright metal one side and i was wondering weather it had been dropped and the barrel had took a knock,it has a hell of a twang when i fire it,is it worth taking as part payment for the gas fire,can i get barrels moderrators ect, for it if i take it on.any help would be great.