Please comment? FAC HW80 vs 12 ft/lb HW80 hold sensitivity?

[rehmk5]

Hello folks,

I would be most grateful if any of you Beeman R1/HW80 experienced folks could comment on my question.

Here's my situation:

I own a .177 Beeman R1 (HW80). It's always been a FAC as it puts out 7.9 gr Crosman Premier Lites at about 1,020 fps (per chronograph) (Maccari & Venom parts).

Hot for sure, but at a serious cost and that being hold sensitivity. Unless I am 100% consistent in shooting technique, the point of impact (poi) shifts.

For instance, if I'm shooting sitting, from a rest, and I zero it so it is right on the mark at 50 yds, but then switch to shooting it at same 50 yds, only standing (with a rest on a fence post), then the 50 yd poi is now 1" higher and an inch to the right.

For me, a hunting airgun needs to not hit differently just because I hold it differently.

My question:

Does a non-FAC HW80 at 12 ft/lb M.E. power level also require 100% consistent hold technique?

My Beeman R7 and HW55's always hit the mark, no matter how I hold them (not hold sensitive). They don't even change poi if I shoot them right or left handed. But they don't have a lot of power.

My .177 AirArms TX200 Mk3 is also not hold sensitive, despite having FAC power (7.9 gr cplite at 920 fps).

If I dropped my HW80's power to 12 ft/lbs M.E., would it then stop being so demanding that I be so unvarying in how I hold it?

In hunting small pests on the farm (starlings, etc), accuracy with modest power beats high power and wondering where the pellet will be going this time.

Thank you!

Robert Hamilton, Calif, USA

[Shed tuner]

80's at 12 Fp are rubbish (very hold sensitive) - suggest dropping the power by 50 fps. I do know they are very sweet in .22 at around 18 FP

[LESS THAN FORTUITOUS KENNETH]

80's at 12 Fp are rubbish (very hold sensitive) - suggest dropping the power by 50 fps. I do know they are very sweet in .22 at around 18 FP

Yup. That Hudson bloke has just finished getting mine all nice and lovely. But, he reckons it was shooting sweeter at 17 ft/lb.

BTW Jon, it looks well in the Macarri stock Paul got off you.

[Dean]

Hi Robert, welcome to the board.

You mention that the impact point changes when you're shooting from a rest on a fence post compared to when you're sitting. Are you resting the rifle against the post or a part of your body? Springers are quite sensitive to recoil so it could be the difference between free-holding and resting that's causing your pellets to go off-line.

Hope that's helpful,
Dean

[rehmk5]

Thank you kindly for your comments gentlemen.

At FAC power, my Beeman R1 (HW80) is gas ram fast. Fires like a 'snap'. Very quick. And accurate.

But only if I hold it very consistently.

In the hunting I do here in California, USA, which I call "farm pest hunting", a gun that can be held any which way is preferred.

Thus my R7 (HW30), HW55's and TX200 Mk3 are preferred. But I was hoping that dropping my .177 R1's power level to 12 ft/lbs would eliminate the need to hold it always the exact same way to prevent poi shifting with different hold positions (i.e. prone vs sitting/kneeling vs standing).

The R1/HW80 has a big, heavy piston and a fair bit of travel and so I'll guess that at 12 ft/lbs it will take a bit longer to get the pellet out the bore. But my Beeman R7/hw30 shooting 8.4 gr JSB Exact 4.52's at about 590 fps is no speedster in getting fast lock time and still lets me all but stand on my head without changing where it hits.

It's sounding though, like the HW80 at 12 ft/lbs surely is prone to move p.o.impact around when held it different.

Mostly though, in farm pesting, I shoot standing using a tall, lightweight camera stand tripod as a rest, being a standing unsupported marksman of such ability as to have any witnesses erupting in gales of laughter. Forearm resting on palm of left hand. Left hand resting on top of camera stand rest. Right hand on grip/trigger. Right elbow not resting on anything.

Why and how my AA TX200 Mk3 is so forgiving as to inconsistent hold technique, must be due to the genius of the designer. My TX200, unlike my FAC HW80/R1, has almost no muzzle flip upon the shot, allowing me to spot poi much easier.

Still, for hunting, I'm most fond of break barrels, being fumble fingered when trying to seat a pell in my TX200 without taking my eye off the quarry.

Sincerely,

Robert Hamilton,
California, USA

[electric sheep]

He does know what he is talking about. HW80's are not in standard fettle very good at 12fpe but are superb at higher power, if you tune them to shoot at 12fpe with a short stroke and light piston they transform. Don't slag well respected members it's not good for your time here

[steven]

this guy obviously hasn't got a clue what hes talking about- to say that one of the best break barrels ever made running at 12fp is rubbish is just absurd.

That is meant to be satire, Tommy, isn't it?

[Paddy_SP]

I think you're misinterpreting BuddyBoy here - take a look at his post-count - does that tell you anything? He is a very experienced chap, and was referring to the fact that the HW80 is crap at 12ft/lbs when compared to running at nearer 20ft/lbs...

[rockdrill]

The HW80 is designed as a high power rifle (17-20ft.lbs) and its firing characteristics are very nice when run in the manner to which it was designed.

To achieve UK legal spec a weak spring is used which gives a slower firing cycle. Compared to an equivalent rifle designed to give 12ft.lbs (e.g. HW95), this feels sluggish and is not the easiest action to get the best from in this format.

Put a short stroke piston with stronger spring or a Lazaglide tune into the rifle and it transforms into a lovely 12ft.lbs rifle, but in out of the box UK format it is comparatively 'crap'.

[Tommy-GUN]

The HW80 is designed as a high power rifle (17-20ft.lbs) and its firing characteristics are very nice when run in the manner to which it was designed.

To achieve UK legal spec a weak spring is used which gives a slower firing cycle. Compared to an equivalent rifle designed to give 12ft.lbs (e.g. HW95), this feels sluggish and is not the easiest action to get the best from in this format.

Put a short stroke piston with stronger spring or a Lazaglide tune into the rifle and it transforms into a lovely 12ft.lbs rifle, but in out of the box UK format it is comparatively 'crap'.

Hi there Rockdrill, what guns have you got

[Rapidnick]

ok fair play..if i have misinterpreted the statement i apologies. i don't think his post count has anything to do with it. I'm sure he probably is a great guy, knows his stuff, but i will stand up and fight to defend the great name and reputation of the one and only 12fp work horse of them all, ladies and gentleman. The WEIHRAUCH......HW80...APLOURS,APLOURS,APLO URS

Are you a comedian? You clearly don't know anything about BuddyBoy or the design brief which created the HW80. The Weihrauch HW80 was designed to run at around 17 ft lb in standard mode with capability to tweak the power output to 20 ft lb or slightly more. It was specifically designed for markets where air rifle power levels are unrestricted. Please don't misunderstand me at this point: it can be made to shoot superbly well at 12 ft lb but nowhere near as well as it shoots at the power levels it was designed for. I happen to know Jon has a beautiful Venom tuned HW80 because it used to be mine! Somebody spent a lot of money to get that rifle to shoot really well at UK legal limit and quite honestly you are better off with a HW97 or 95 unless you intend to spend that money. The fact that you rave about your HW80 is of course good news for you but indicates that you possibly haven't tried a tuned or higher powered version because if you had you would certainly notice the difference. As you haven't told us anything about yourself by filling in your profile I admit that I may be wide of the mark there. Out of the box and at legal limit there are better rifles to buy than the HW80 in the UK.
I own a tuned HW80 running at about 20 ft lb which is beautiful and smooth. At that power level it is indeed a superb rifle because it is doing what Weihrauch intended it to do! At legal limit I certainly prefer my Pro Sport or HW97 in every department.
Good shooting anyway-and please fill in your profile!

[Gwylan]

Hi there Rockdrill, what guns have you got

How long have you got..?

Gus

[Davey K]

Sometimes the advetising tells the story......

Even the ads for the HW80 suggest it is meant to run at FAC levels - gun ads in comics - see uttings etc - all say things like 'perfect for upgrading to FAC' 'built with FAC power in mind' - what they are telling you is this gun is only being sold at 12 ftlbs because a 20ftlb version would not shift as many units due to FAC legislation. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a fait warning from fair retailers that the 12ftlb version is not running at 100% efficiency - read between the lines, all the information is there

[Neil.]

Would you agree that there are more guns at 12fp that are not as good as the hw80 than there are better.

Yes, mostly Chinese

[steven]

we seem to be trailing far away from the argument in question which was .....buddy boy said that the hw80 was rubbish at 12fp and i said it wasnt its as simple as that.

No it Wasn't!
The question was......

My question:

Does a non-FAC HW80 at 12 ft/lb M.E. power level also require 100% consistent hold technique?

.....just in case anyone accidentally stumbles back on-topic!