Can you tell me about WW1 era BSA air rifles?

[silva]

Hello Sparko,
the fact that it is in .22 makes it much more unusual.
How long is it ? Should be either 45.5 inch, 43.5 inch or possibly 39 inch (v.unlikely)
If its the longer model, then you have the Sporting Model which is one of the finest Pre war Bsa's.
However if its the shorter model, then it will be possibly a little rarer !
I love these tales of hidden treasure being found !

Best Regards Morgan

[benchstop]

I can see the attraction of owning something from the war years, and I would be keen to indulge if some of you could convince me that if in the right hands and in the right condition (I hesitate to use the word 'tuned') one of these would be ok for the odd outing in the field, allowing for open sights.

Thanks in advance Mike

[mjohno]

Many years ago in one of the airgun mags. They ran a series of articles on a shooter who used his pre war BSA for vermin control.
These old guns were made for vermin control so as long as they are in good condition there should be no problem. Just think the gun you would be using could be a hundred years old. Just think how many people have had the pleasure of ownership in that time.
Be careful though a few years ago I had half a dozen or so WWI service rifles, while they found new owners. When they had gone both myself and the good lady happen to mention that we had caught a glimpse of someone standing in the hallway. Previous owners from 1914-18????? who knows but never felt anything since.

[Lakey]

Benchstop,

These guns are awsome for vermin control once you get used to their recoil characteristics. There is the normal recoil of a springer which (it seems to me) appears slightly increased in these guns. It may be because the woodwork only extends to the butt stock only( ie they dont have a wooden fore-end like the webley MK3.) so your front hand lies directly on metal.
That said, they are very accurate and quite capable (in good condition) of dealing with rabbits out to 35yds plus in .22 (or .177 if you have one of the longer models only). The "L" or ladies patterns are no good for vermin control in my opinion as they had a shorter cylinder.
The barrels were virtually hand made and the rifling was singly broached into the bore so you will find them amongst the most accurate Vintage barrels made. Also the sights on these early BSA are superbly made and about as precise as it is possible to get open sights. It is very possible to go for rabbit head shots with them out to 25 yds easily as long as the foresight is un-broken (often you find the fore-sight bead is missing from the tip of the fore sight, and it has been filed to a rough point so check these very carefully) .

As for power, a good example - well lubed and with a newish spring should throw out around 10.5 ft lbs. which is adequate for vermin a medium ranges. Power is not the point with these guns however, it is the accuracy that you get which is the main winning point and the knowledge that you are firing one of the first factory mass produced british airguns made, which will probably be around 80-90 years old.

In my opinion these guns are pure magic, and deserve to be used. Once you try hunting with one, you will be out with it all the time.

regard's

Lakey

[Lakey]

Benchstop,

One thing I forgot to mention is that whilst they are quite capable of groups of 1" to 1.5" at 25 metres, (if the gun is in good sound nick) this takes a fair bit of practice to achieve, so I for one would practice on paper first and would only go out after vermin once I could consistently get those accuracy levels regularly. One thing is for sure it is a lot harder that shooting with a scope, but on the plus side it is a lot more rewarding and it carries with it a great sence of achievement when done well.

Lakey

[felix gunner]

Lakey,

You are making me more and more anxious to lay my hands on one. Nothing around that I can see from dealers or private sellers - if you can help me locate a nice example via your contacts please send a PM!

[NortonAMC]

Felix.

Livens have one. imp mod D

http://www.livens.co.uk/sh_guns.ihtml

£100 plus they want £20 to post, I phoned them up and got a strange
women who did not seem to understand what I wanted!!!

Anyway give them a try.


Mike.

[felix gunner]

Cheers Mike,

I gave them a call - guess you were unlucky - I got a very helpful guy! The model was a little early for me but thanks anyway.

[benchstop]

Your enthusiasm is infectious! ok so this year I will buy something, but what?
I would be looking for one that is ubicquitus rather than highly collectable, and whats the general opinion on working on them, is it wise to restore to as new, or leave alone and preserve the history?
Would it be a hanging offence to put on a scope rail, and modest scope?

regards Mike

[benchstop]

I mean UBIQUITOUS

[Lakey]

Benchstop,

If I were you, and was after my first pre war BSA underleaver (as this class of airgun is often collectively called) I would go for a post WW1 BSA "Standard" in No 2 Bore (.22). These were manufactured between 1920-21 and 1935ish . They are amongst the more common of the underleavers and are one of the longest they made at 45.5 inches long. They are sometimes called the "Giant" or "Sporting pattern" underleavers which differentiates them from the .177 version (manufactured at the same time) which was the Light or ladies pattern.This had a much shorter cylinder and was less powerful.
A good servicable example should cost around £100 - £180 approx. This should get you a complete gun with all original parts. It would probably have around 50% original bluing remaining (although often the bluing has changed to an overall blueish/brownish patina). If feel that this is in keeping with the gun of that age and is an original "time earned" feature of older guns which I quite like.

That gun will probably need to be dismantled (easy !) and a new spring fitted, as well as a good clean up inside. By that I mean that over the years the grease and old lubricant turns to a kind of thick sludge and often encrusts parts like the spring, spring guide, and piston. this needs to be removed and replaced by a good moly grease. Examine the piston washer well as they often look whole when first removed from the gun, however when examined often fall to bit or have pellets, bits of metal, wire and other crap embedded in them or alternatively they are just falling to bits. I always replace the piston washer as a matter of course with all "new ones" that I buy, as a safety precaution.

You can try to tune the guns by using modern methods however I do not bother as I think they are fine as they are and it is accuracy over power that you are after anyway.

Finally once you have put the gun together again, it will need to be run in over a couple of tins of pellets, and then you will emerge the other side with something that should give you hours of pleasure and ought to last at least another 80-100years at least.. then you too will discover the joy of fireing these beauties.......


Lakey ( a borne BSA underleaver man )

[silva]

Hello Folks,

How do you feel about Benchstops scope rail suggestion ?

I must admit I've considered the ethics of scoping one of these myself.

Though perhaps the whole point of these air rifles, is that they are from an era where the rifleman really had to consider his shot placement and sight picture, without the luxury of modern optics.

However if you were restoring a scrapper or parts gun for field use, perhaps if you used say, a set of period 1920's /30's Parker Hale steel bases and windage adjustable mounts with a suitable old quality 22mm tube scope, it would be ok.
Failing that, one of the steel 50's / 60's 3/4 tube American Weaver scopes would also look fine and not be out of place.
It would probably be cheaper than replacing the open sights if they were missing !

I certainly wouldn't consider drilling and tapping a good or even fair condition example, but on a bitza or parts gun, I think it would be ok, so long as you used suitable componants.

Best Regards Morgan

[benchstop]

The problem with mounting a scope of course, is that it's rather an irreversible step. To scope an excellent example would be frowned upon I know, but at the same time the gun has to be approaching that to make it worthwhile


Mike

[felix gunner]

Lakey, just to come back to the advice you and Silva gave to me earlier. Were the pre 14-18 rifles in .177 standard version or light pattern - I'm confused on this or how to tell. Is it just the length or were all pre WW1 Improved Model D rifles available in .177/.22 and 39" and 45" and standard and light etc...?

Basically I want to know how to be sure I have a 'full power' (as it was then) Improved Model D but would prefer .177 with 'pistol grip' stock - what length should it be?

[Lakey]

Hi Felix,

According to John Knibbs is his excellent book " BSA and LINCOLN JEFFRIES AIR RIFLES - A Concise Illustrated History of their Development and Manufacture 1904-1918 " The first known Improved Model D rifle is number 19236 which left the factory on 6th May 1908. Production ended in 1918.

During that period Rifles in all three calibres were produced No.1 Bore (.177), No.2 Bore (.22) and No.3 Bore (.25), with the Improved Model D inscription.
These rifles were produced in the following designations :-
Light Pattern,Standard or Ordinary Pattern, Standard Sporting Pattern (451/2") and two very short models known as the Junior and Juvenile Patterns.
Light Patterns were 39.5", Ordinary Patterns were 43.5", Sporting patterns were 45.5" and Junior Models were 34.25" only.

Hope that helps and if possible get the above book as probably all your questions will be answered within its pages.

All the best

Lakey