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Thread: Fwb P70ft

  1. #1
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    Fwb P70ft

    Feinwerkbau P70 FT

    I acquired this gun to replace my Protarget (see other review) in late 2005. Sadly at this time I was still recovering from a rather serious mental illness (I wish I were joking) and I didnít really get to grips with the gun until the spring of this, sorry last, year when I began to feel much better.

    My P70FT looks rather unusual; itís black and silver with an Ďover the wristí (behind the pistol grip) alloy stock rather than the standard red or blue one that goes under the wrist. It looks very much like one of the new P700s, I have been in touch with FWB, primarily to get an instruction manual, who told me that they never made a black P70FT, but Iíve got about 11lbs of metal that says that they did! (it is even marked P70FT, not P70 so itís not an aftermarket conversion of a 10m gun.) This is all rather by-the-by as Iím sure that the action is the same as the regular red/blue model. I purchased the gun with an Air Arms quick fill fitted, the same as that on the Protarget.

    My initial impression was that it handled like a barge, very front heavy and cumbersome but there was no doubting the pure accuracy of the machine or the quality of the trigger. The firing cycle of the gun seemed quicker and smoother than the Protarget and it was less reactive on the shot. Initial results with 4.52 JSB exacts were so good that Iím still yet to try an alternative round. Groups average out at about 11mm on my clubís indoor 50 yard range, with several smaller groups, including a 7mm C-C 10 shotter Ė perhaps the best group Iíve ever shot.

    From early spring it became clear that there was some sort of problem with the weapon, every time I came to shoot I would have to re-zero. I squarely blamed the gun and had Roger Moy examine the thing in great detail, he shimmed various bits and pieces and removed the grub screw in the barrel support that oddly shoves the barrel up and to the left; he replaced this with another shim. The gun was also full of grease, this was all removed and the gun became far more velocity consistent, before this it would vary by as much as 40 fps depending on temperature. I became very suspicious of the way the action is mounted in the chassis; it has a bolt each side at the rear and without the front barrel support pivots on these bolts like a see-saw, the action effectively dangles from the barrel, very weird. I only very briefly tried a different scope, time would show that I should have pursued this avenue rather more assiduously. I had been using the same Tasco Custom Shop since 1994 and regarded it as above reproachÖ..

    The gun proceeded to drive me crazy all summer, indeed I may well have lost my AA grading; I just donít want to check! Despite consistently shooting fantastic groups my results in competition were very, very average, with a constant struggle to hold zero from one moment to the next. From using a gun I never had to think about (the PT) I found myself lumbered with a seemingly impossible puzzle. The little allen key that I used to reset my turrets seemed to be my constant, unwelcome, shooting companion.

    The mist only started to clear when I bought another old Protarget, which was locally known to be as reliable as a Toyota (which I stuck the same Custom Shop on) to be confronted with the same problems. At the same time I leant the P70 to a friend who shot it for 3 or 4 weeks and declared that the FWB was the most accurate thing he had ever laid hands on Ė he even used it in competition in preference to his own rifle.

    It turns out the elevation turret was knackered on the CS; indeed in one winter league round in November (on a very windy day) I missed one target out to 40 yards and hit one past 40 yards, 40 yards is my zero range Ė in dialing up the turret wouldnít track, dialing down it was OK, this only hit me a few days later. I had used the CS for years on my old PT cranked hard down Ė I must have crushed the spring under the erector tube. It took me so long to realize because 90% of my practice is shooting solely at a fixed range of 50 yards. (By the way I have found a place with a complete range of spares for CS scopes, abousa inc. in Miami, Iíve sent mine off to be fixed Iíll let you know what sort of job they do, apparently they will fix any scope. Plus the receptionist sounds like Beyonce!)

    So moving on, after my scope revelation I purchased a 32x Hakko from the one known as ĎSniper-wolfí on here (good honest deal). I zeroed it on the P70 on my indoor range on a Wednesday night and roughly marked some ranges on it. The next Sunday saw me at the next round of the winter league, very windy but immediately it was clear that the gun was spot-on for height. I won, the first time I had used the new scope outdoors. So the P70 was not totally to blame, and may not be to blame at all. I havenít used the gun since the start of the month as Iím at sea (so I have lots of time to write reviews like this, Iíve also made a laminate target stock for my S400 out here; a total rip-off of the Dominator wooden stock, I hope I get it through the airport, itís a cracker!)

    Iíve added a lead weight to the back of the gun to bring the balance point back a bit, as Iíve yet to investigate whether the heavy-looking steel shroud can be replaced. Even if thatís possible machining new dovetails in a replacement alloy job would not be easy, certainly not a job for a dremel!. Many people donít like the white plastic breach lever, I donít really give a stuff about that, but I do like the cocking Ďearsí (ambidextrous like the PT). Some people donít like the fact that it has a rather long barrel, Iíve calculated that a barrel 8 cms longer results in an additional barrel time of 0.34 milliseconds (thatís 0.34 of one one thousandth of a second) at 770 fps Ė this will not keep me awake at night.

    The low volume of the regulator means that it runs at a very high pressure, the power drops off at about 125 bar, most regulated guns will shoot down to about 105, or even slightly less. I charge to 200 bar and to be honest Iíve never calculated how many shots it gives, my guess would be perhaps about 75-80, which I suppose is enough.


    I did visit Dave Welham a couple of months ago, on my way home after working in London for a few days. He described the P70 as a ĎMeccano setí rifle, lots of separate components which will always struggle for absolute consistency. He may have a point but I hope heís wrong. I suppose he does have Anschutzís to sell after all! The 8002 he showed me did seem rather nice though.

    The P70 cannot be a bad gun; it has won heaps of 10m medals, almost certainly more than any other rifle over the last 9 years or so, though maybe some of the design elements (especially the low volume regulator) mean that it is perhaps less naturally suited to higher power outputs. Styerís and Anschutz also have a compensator; Iím not sure whether Waltherís do, the 10m FWB has one but this is removed on the high-output FT model. My P70 is hardly a bucking bronco though, it seems as dead as a doornail to me.

    FWB are a natural first choice for the 10m game and Iím surprised P70FTs are not more popular, I suppose they are rather expensive (I think they come in at about £1350) but when you are looking at spending north of £900 anyway does a couple of hundred more really matter? In some ways the gun is an enigma, and I quite like having something a little different.

    They are undoubtedly a big heavy lump, especially with the ridiculous telescopes that we put on the things. Iím six foot and strongly built and Iím very glad it isnít any heavier; itís certainly not a gun for a junior, a lady (anyway one who can be identified as such from more than five yards) or even the smaller gentleman. It also lacks a well-known specialist fettler, there is that chap Mr. Preston who does the Styerís, Mr Hancox molests Waltherís Mr. Welham could certainly fix an Anschutz in the dark and you can probably get Protargets fixed up at a keycutters. I donít know of any person that the P70 owner can go running to in a time of deep crisis.

    If (as appears to be the case) itís been the scope thatís caused all these problems then the FWB may be a fantastic gun; I cannot conceive that anything could be more accurate, if it proves to be reliable then I wonít be looking for another competition rifle. Itís really started to grow on me, perhaps its guilt - Iíve said some pretty harsh things about it to anyone who would listen, and even some who wouldnít! Towards the end of that winter league round I just started smiling to myself Ė it was the first time Iíd shot the gun without clenched buttocks, waiting for some inexplicable miss!

    Best Regards

    Simon

  2. #2
    xbow's Avatar
    xbow is offline "Right a bit, left a bit............"
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    Hi Simon, I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of your P70FT some time, it sounds "interesting"! I won't comment on the P70 as such as although I did shoot one once I've never owned one - too heavy for me. As for fixing them Jon Harris ("Hareng" on this forum) is your man. After much discussion with Jon and bouncing ideas off him we both agreed that it was a bit risky for me to attempt a conversion of a P700 match rifle (I've never done ANY work like this before on an air rifle) but I bought one anyway (wood stock) and started work trying to convert it. Six or seven weeks of fiddling and I had a P700FT that shoots very nicely! I did have zero shift once which was down to the left hand "A" clamp screw coming loose. Replacing them with socket screws and using studlock has so far sorted the problem. The only limitation (for me) is the Big Nikko on top of it - I find it too easy to be sloppy with head position! I understand DW's comments about the P70FT but this is, I would hope, aimed at the stock rather than the action. I believe the FWB's are just as good as Anschutz. I would'nt be so bold as to say FWB reg's are better just that I prefer them to the Anschutz. Enjoy the P70,

    Vic.
    We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals.
    Rudeness is the weak mans imitation of strength. Eric Hoffer.

    If I donít reply to your comments itís probably because youíre on my Ignore list.

  3. #3
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    where did you get your p70? as i sold a black one not so long ago.
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  4. #4
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    Hello

    I bought the gun from a chap in Essex, it's not just that it's black, the design of the stock isalso very different to the red/blue standard one.

    Best Regards

    Simon

  5. #5
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    Nice review.

    I've got a P70FT (bought from MRBIGGUN).
    I'm 1,70 meters high and weighs about 72 kilos, and I don't look like Swartzenegger.
    I like my P70FT very much and I kind'a like it being heavy.
    I have bought a dovetail_to_weaver BKL mount for it, which is mounted on the barrel dovetail only. I think that this mount removes the zero shift that othervise happens sometimes when the rifle has been in and out of the carry case.

    Great rifle.
    I'm a programmer and I'm OK, I work all night and I work all day...

  6. #6
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    Hello,

    I have a PT70ft on a 700-stock for more than one month now and I'm very satisfied. The gun carries a big Nikko. The original dovetail is fitted with Jon Harris mountraisers on top of which I've placed a Weaver-'bridge' with a drop of 0.5į. Very important : with this weaverrail, the scope needs no more shimming! The mounts I use : Warne Medium 30mm (quick release)

    I raised the palmshelf with an aluminium piece and I placed a bipod underneath the palmshelfholder.
    Within short time the FWB will be equiped with an alu pellet-lever and the Nikko will get a new sidewheel and marker, both Jon Harris-made!

    As for the shooting characteristics : yes, this weapon is rather heavy but I don't see this as a disadvantage. On the contrary, with this setup it feels very stable and it gives me a lot of confidence. The accuracy is stunning.
    I get the best results with JSB exact 4.52.
    The rest can be resumed in 3 words : practice, practice and practice...

    Below a link of some pics of this beauty...

    http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5458/fwb008ab7.jpg
    http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/4216/fwb007ja8.jpg
    http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8610/fwb006kb3.jpg

    Best regards,

    Marc
    Last edited by streetfighter; 06-01-2007 at 11:34 PM.
    FWB P70ft, 700-stock, Big Nikko 10-50x60

  7. #7
    xbow's Avatar
    xbow is offline "Right a bit, left a bit............"
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    We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals.
    Rudeness is the weak mans imitation of strength. Eric Hoffer.

    If I donít reply to your comments itís probably because youíre on my Ignore list.

  8. #8
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    Good review Simon

    Just out of interest, regarding the 'front heavy' remark, have you tried a butt hook? I think you'd be surprised

    One of the disciplines I shoot is 25yd benchrest, the 'bull' I'm trying to obliterate on these shots is 2mm diameter and I was struggling a bit last year although the gun was plenty fine for my normal target shooting with the 4.52 JSR's. I sent the gun down to Jon Harris asking him to sort it for me, came back spot on with a 9fps spread over 70 shots.

    Whilst the rifle was away, I noticed that the Italian guys I'm shooting against are all using Barracuda's in their P70's and getting excellent results, got some and tried them, shot my first 250 ex 250 with my initial practice card

    I love my P70 to bits and have never had any problems with zero shift, mind you it had been 'breathed on' by Jon H before I laid hands on it.

    Cheers Robb
    My Toys:-

    FWB P70FT+Elite 4200 6-24x40.
    Sako Range+Leupold VXIII6.5-20x40 EFR.
    Anschutz 1407 + B & L 36x
    Marlin .38 CBC Underlever+Marbles tang sight.
    Remington 12c Pump action.
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  9. #9
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    Thanks for the replies guys. Romah, I have one of those old pattern Anschutz butt hooks that I'm thinking of fitting to it - as you suggest I think it will do wonders for the balance. Xbow, I love your 700, where did you buy it? Did you get a good discount for the lack of iron sights and was converting it difficult? Streetfighter, mine looks very much like yours, except mine is black where yours is silver and vice-versa.
    Best Regards

    Simon

    I've got some slug guns.

  10. #10
    xbow's Avatar
    xbow is offline "Right a bit, left a bit............"
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    Quote Originally Posted by simona View Post
    Xbow, I love your 700, where did you buy it? Did you get a good discount for the lack of iron sights and was converting it difficult?
    I bought the P700 mail order from a gun shop in Germany, It was about £800 inc shipping without rearsight - UK quote at the time was £1020! It took a while to work out the best way (for me) to get the power up - I made some new reg parts. As supplied, the P700 is over-lever cocking so I had to design and make a side lever for it. Also it only has a rear dovetail so I also made the custom scope mount. It took me a while as I only have a Lathe at home so I had to do the milling at work. I'm not a machinist but making the bits wasn't difficult just time consuming.

    Vic.
    We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals.
    Rudeness is the weak mans imitation of strength. Eric Hoffer.

    If I donít reply to your comments itís probably because youíre on my Ignore list.

  11. #11
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    my p70

    hi felloow FWB'ers!!
    i bought my p70 about a month ago and i really like it.having sold my pro-target this last sunday,i have no regrets.
    i had wondered why there was a screw missing on the shroud...surely now my scope will 'wander'???
    luckily for me,the previous owner had done most of the bling thing to it,but last week i made a couple of mods...as a result i now have a real nice pair of sling mounts!i think they turned out ok....if anyone would be interested...i may well make some to order
    Feinwerkbau P70 HFT/Falcon Menace 4.5-18x56IR
    Daystate Airwolf MVT/Custom Shop 8-40x56
    HW97 thumbhole/hawke sr6

  12. #12
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    Update; the problem was the scope. I've fitted a butthook and a nice Deben and have been on a really hot streak the last couple of months. Managed to win FFTA winter league and the association championships [with a performance I was most proud of, 36 ex 40 on a very hard course in horrible conditions, won by 4, not done that for a while]. Zero has been almost totally solid since putting the Deben on and the pure accuracy still impresses me greatly. Weight has been to my advantage in the gusty conditions this winter; I'm sure it's been more stable than a lighter gun. I'm not really having to think about the machinery anymore.....Really enjoying working on my shooting rather that messing about with equipment all the time.
    Best Regards

    Simon

    I've got some slug guns.

  13. #13
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    Good to hear your doing well.
    Steyr 110 FT Connect + Bushnell Elite 8-32x40

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