Forensic firearms lecture

[EddieP]

I went to a lecture yesterday, given by a forensic scientist from the northern firearms section in manchester. He managed to make an interesting subject as boring as hell, but there were a few snippets worth mentioning;

Apparently the FSS class anything over 1 joule muzzle energy as 'lethal' (but then their description of 'lethal' is 'capable of wounding'), with 12 FPE being equivalent to just over 7 joules, so in his words, 'Even a legal airgun can kill' (!)

I asked him about Brocock conversions, and he said that these were a 'serious problem' in manchester, though he wouldn't be specific on numbers. He said they'd never seen a .17 conversion, and that some were conversted to .22 rimfire, but that the majority of the conversions they saw were .38 conversions, done by simply drilling out the barrel and leaving it smooth bore, a Black and Decker job, basically.

I asked about the robustness of converted guns and he said that steel framed brococks would shoot live rounds all day long no problem, but that alloy frames would eventually fail, but would fire a good number of rounds first.

He also brought a selection of firearms which he passed round the audience (.38 webley revolver, 9mm parabellum auto pistol, sterling sub machine gun, sawn off shotgun etc.) and it was interesting to see how genuinely fascinated the majority of the audience was with them, bearing in mind that these were all young people who were kids when the ban occurred, and so wouldn't ever have seen or handled the real thing before

[RichardH]

Heard the same from the local licensing folk who have a couple in their armoury.

If the smoothbore .38 conversion is done by someone with a little knowledge there will be enough space between bullet and barrel along with the cylinder gap to lower the pressure so as not to blow it up. Wouldnt be accurate beyond about 5 yards though and could still take your hand off though.

I've no doubt a .22 conversion by a talented criminal would work for a long time and be reasonably useful though.

[robinghewitt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If the smoothbore .38 conversion is done by someone with a little knowledge there will be enough space between bullet and barrel along with the cylinder gap to lower the pressure so as not to blow it up. Wouldnt be accurate beyond about 5 yards though and could still take your hand off though.[/quote]

Chris Craig managed to kill a policeman at some distance using .38's wrapped round with tape in a .45. His retard companion Derek Bentley was hung as an accomplice even though he was already in police custody when the fatal shot was fired.

[manxteddy]

I have been told that no converted gun has been shown nor has it been demonstated in any way to fire an effective live round.
I stand to be corrected. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_confused.gif" alt="Confused" width="15" height="22"><!--graemlin:-->
Graham

[manxteddy]

As a PS . I saw a short sword which had been reproduced from Lord Of The Rings today , in Chester.
Surely there is no way a steel reproduction like this could be converted into a weapon is there !
Mr cynical. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_razz.gif" alt="Razz" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:-->
Graham

[cliveward]

As long as it's deactivated (i.e. blunt) then I'm sure it's impossible to convert it into a working weapon (i.e. sharpen it).


Cheers



Clive

[EddieP]

Fair point Graham, but the bloke was the head of the manchester firearms section, and ought therefore to be reasonably well informed. And his talk was delivered to forensic science undergraduates, so it ought to have been impartial, but I'm not defending our commenting on what he said, just reporting it, as I thought it might be of interest to this BBS.

[EddieP]

He also said that he'd attended a crime scene in manchester last week, where a taxi driver had been shot with a converted brocock, so it'd be interesting to check if that's on any of the news channels?

But you're right mate, it'll be pointy sticks yet if this government has his way. He was quite clear on that too, i.e. the tendency of tony and his mates to ban anything and everything which might be classed as a weapon, though he did also have a dig at the fact that tony and his crew are having difficulties finding any TO ban in a little place they invaded recently

[manxteddy]

EddieP
Thanks for posting your original mail.Remember that Margaret Thatcher believed Tony to be similar to herself ! And what happened to her ?
It amuses me that in a country without the Death Penalty where the state does not kill criminals as such,we have armed criminals , Armed Police, Armed forces and a population for whom self defence or certain comments will land them in gaol for a long time.Somewhat bizare state of affairs.
Logically if all guns and conventional weapons were banned from our shores there would be no gun crime.. No one would have the means to commit the crimes would they !
Long may we still be able to shoot our guns in this green and pleasant land but civil liberties so long fought for by our British ancestors , may well pass into electonic history.Deleted at the push of a button!
Our way of life is ebbing away. <img src="http://jsramsbottom.co.uk/bbs/e/icon_razz.gif" alt="Razz" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin:-->
Graham

[This message was edited by manxteddy on 29 January, 2004 at 16:46.]

[jtunnicliffe]

I have only just joined your forum and have found it to be helpful and interesting on a number of levels.

The de-fanged nature of your private weapons there in Britain came as quite a suprise to me. I had no idea that you Brits had actually lost your rights to real firearms and that your airguns were regulated.

Here in America, even here in California, we are committed to preserving our sporting weapons rights. Although some in our government will continue to attack these rights the political power of the gun owner is still sufficient to defeat these scoundrels. 9/11 actually helped this cause.

But then the majority of our population is neither humanist nor socialist.

I am reminded of Benjamin Franklin's comment to those assembled outside of the building in which the consitution was being constructed. He was asked whether the nation was to be a republic or a monarchy. Ben responded "It is a republic and shall so remain for as long as you can keep it".

We intend to keep it.

Good luck to you all. I appreciate your expertise and your views and will continue to visit this fine forum.

jt