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Thread: Black powder or equivilent

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Veliko Tarnovo, Bulgaria
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    Black powder or equivilent

    Pukka black powder (BP) or a smokeless equivalent.

    An awkward choice, BP is a must for some competitions, some find the smell and smoke a part of the enjoyment of using it.

    Many say the firearms we used were designed to use BP, to some extent this is true. Our modern replicas are made to finer tolerances on modern machines using modern materials certified to be of high quality so they are far safer and perfectly capable of handling the modern smokeless powders. Not I hasten to add powders designed for reloading cartridges.

    I say true, a factor to consider is the rifling twist is optimised for BP. Pyrodex is formulated to perform the same as BP (well almost). Triple 7 is an even more modern introduction which burns with slightly more energy (+15%) and seems faster burning.

    BP is classed as an explosive, because of this to hold it you need a license and a suitable storage container (more later). You also need authority to transport it and you will not be sold it if you cannot show these two documents.

    Smokeless is easier to get (it is far from smokeless), even via mail order. The storage is the same as normal reloading powders, so this is the preferred stuff for many of us.

    In use BP is dirty smelly and messy, and good fun. Pryodex is similar though the smell is not quite as rich. Both these powders are corrosive, the residues draw moisture out of the air and being sulfur based they produce an acidic tar that can damage hardware in a matter of hours. A strict cleaning regime is what you will often read about amongst m/l users.

    Triple 7 is relatively new and still a bit hard to source in the Uk. It's smell is no where near as nice. It produces about 30% less smoke is slightly hotter and faster burning and because it is sulfur free the residue is considerably if not 100% less corrosive.

    There are other powders such as cleanshot but they are hard to source so wont be of interest to newer shooters.
    “If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Stoke
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    10,020
    There are some BP cartridges for which a nitro load is possible.

    For example, in .577 Snider the original load is 70 grains black. Substitution of the equivalent volume of Pyrodex works well - though feels a bit severe - but the residue is horrible and thorough and prompt cleaning essential.

    There are loads for Snider using powders like Accurate 5744 which I'd like to try but have not found supplies at a time I felt like shelling out to buy 'em.

    But I have found a good nitro-for-black load in 14 grains of Unique, topped up with inert filler - I used polenta flour because it was what I happened to have; the family wouldn't eat the stuff. This makes sense when you compare it with a 12b shotgun load, because launching an ounce and a quarter at 1000 - 1200 fps is just about what Snider does as well. The load is mild and cleans out Pyrodex residue from earlier firings almost completely. I use half a dozen of these to finish off a Snider shooting session.

    Regards,
    MikB
    ...history... is, indeed, little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind. (Edward Gibbon: Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Veliko Tarnovo, Bulgaria
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    3,222
    I know I may seem to be pushing this stuff but trust me it is very clean to use

    http://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven/loadnote.php

    Usable in cartridges too.

    Shot my revolver last tuesday, just got it out the safe today to clean it ready for next tuesday. Yep five days after firing, no corrosion, no thick goo just a very fine white dust. Two strokes with a nylon bristled brush, bronze brush over the nipples, thats it done. I shoot 18 or 24 shots a week with a quick run the brush through after every 6. Not even oiling it, I would not oil my 357 underlever every week same goes for my m/l.
    I'm not using trex or bore butter either, I coat my slugs with alox as a batch after casting, 200 in a tub, thats it done. They dry with a coating like a varnish.

    I can understand that some insist on using BP, but it you go the smokeless route it seems crazy to me to use anything other than 777.

    You have to accept that most m/l revolver users are doing so because what pistol shooting we can do is restricted. It can be the cheapest alternative so is available to more. What seems to put people off is the mess, the smell, the powder licensing and handling loose powder. 777 can eliminate the first three. The powder is dangerous, it would be wrong to suggest otherwise but we learn safe handling of guns and ammo and powder handling is just another safe use regime to learn.
    They ain't accurate, another misconception, I know people who can shoot cloverleafs with these things. It takes practice and experimentation, perhaps more than buying the best shop brought cartridges but a craftsmen does not blame the tools.
    My own shooting is rubbish, knackered eyes means my normal with any gun over open sights is 3" groups at 25m. My best with my m/l was a couple of 5" but mostly 8" is where I'm at.
    Last edited by Smokeless Coal; 26-05-2007 at 10:31 PM.
    “If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Redditch, Worcs, UK
    Posts
    832
    I'm another 777 (FFFG) convert. Tried 'em all (including 'real' BP) in my revolver and 777 has provided best consistency and, as already said above, cleaning is easy.

    My gun is VERY well used but with 777 and round ball still competitive - won the last club comp. with 89 ex 100. Two hands, standing unsupported. 25m.

    Bit by bit other members are switching to 777 too - mainly for the ease of cleaning.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Coventry
    Posts
    277
    Another big fan of 777 here - I've fired over 100 shots with my Ruger Old Army in one range session without any jams or problems caused by fouling. I constrast this with some of my BP chums who seem to be scrubbing away with brusses and squirting gallons of WD40 to keep their guns running every dozen shots.

  6. #6
    greenshoots Guest
    Not I hasten to add powders designed for reloading cartridges.
    have to disagree with the above statement AA 5744 was designed for the old BP large volume rifle cases ie 45/70 and is the only one i will use in mine no mess or heavy fouling .

    viv

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