Carbine vs rifle-general question

[stevensfo]

Having decided to start my passage from pistols to rifles via an HW80, I've just been informed that the shop only has the carbine version in stock.

So just what is the advantage of the carbine version? Surely, the shorter barrel is going to reduce pellet velocity. Apart from being a bit more easy to handle in a confined space, are there any other factors to consider?

Apart from that, is there a better rifle for 219 pounds?

Steve

[Doobin]

It will reduce velocity in theory, but the internals are more powerful than the standard rifle to make up for it (not a lot of difference in it anyway)

Advantages of carbine are quicker/easier handling, less weight, and sometimes better balance. Best thing to do is to have a feel of it and see how its suits you. Have a look at other makes too- the HW is an excellent gun, but it doesnt hurt to look around. Webley Longbow is very highly rated (is also a carbine), and around the same price.

[Phil Russell]

My belief is that carbines do not have altered internals ... just a shorter barrel. For a springer a shorter barrel is of not much consequence and you would not notice any difference. Personally I feel carbines can look much better. In particular a standard length rifle with silencer can look somewhat ungainly.
Cheers, Phil

[stevensfo]

Thanks for the info. I know the Longbow is a great gun. I chose the HW80 simply because there's so much about it-especially on the USA sites.
Re. barrel length: I think I was confusing springers with CO2 guns where I believe barrel length makes a big difference.

Steve

[pneuguy]

...in springers because the driving pulse from the bouncing piston is so brief that the last few inches of barrel in full-length trim contributes very little acceleration. The situation in CO2 and PCP is very different where a shorter bore directly translates to either less energy or fewer shots per fill.

But one noticable downside to the springer breakbarrel carbine is higher cocking effort (due to less leverage). Another is a bit louder muzzle pop (if unsilenced).

In sum - I prefer carbines, but there are a few penalties.

Steve

[Shed tuner]

consider the HW90 too...

The 80 in Uk 12FP guise is a little slow due to it's overly long stroke and weak Uk spring.

Something with a quicker lock time will be easier to shoot accurately. The 90 is a GasRam and as such can be cocked indefinately, and has a very quick lock time,

The HW 95 is a lighter weight version of the 80 with a shorter stoke - I prefer it at 12 FP, although if you are in .177, the 80 is not so bad.

HTH - JB

PS always go for carbine...

[stevensfo]

Buddyboy,

You mentioned the HW80 at 12 fp. Have you ever had it tuned? If so, which one. I heard Maccari's springs are pretty good, but some of his custom kits seem a bit expensive.

Steve

[Shed tuner]

Ahhh Steven,

just noticed you are not in the UK !

Do you have any power level limits there ?

Prob with the 80 is simply that the stroke is too long - a good tune helps, but 12 FP and a long stroke / large tube just don't go well together whatever you do... OTOH at about 18FP they are great

Can't go wrong with Venom for GBP 50 !

Then again at "FAC" power levels, the 90 would be even better

[pneuguy]

Originally posted by BuddyBoy
consider the HW90 too...

The 80 in Uk 12FP guise is a little slow due to it's overly long stroke and weak Uk spring.

Something with a quicker lock time will be easier to shoot accurately. The 90 is a GasRam and as such can be cocked indefinately, and has a very quick lock time,

The HW 95 is a lighter weight version of the 80 with a shorter stoke - I prefer it at 12 FP, although if you are in .177, the 80 is not so bad.

HTH - JB

PS always go for carbine...

...accelerometer recordings of springer firing cycles that show such things as trigger break, piston bounce, and pellet exit.

Mike did both metal- (e.g., Venom Tomahawk) and gas- (e.g., RX-1) spring guns.

Guess what.

The "gas-rams have shorter locktime" thing turned out to be a complete myth.

Rams do settle down much faster after the shot. This is presumably why rams feel faster.

But in regard to the internal ballistics that matter - i.e., everything that happens before the pellet departs - they're the same. The locktimes were essentially indistinguishable.

If Theoben says otherwise, I fear it's naught but marketing hype.

And independent of powerplant, carbines don't have a significant locktime advantage either. Shortening the barrel does shorten locktime - but only about 1% per inch. Insignificant.

Steve

[Shed tuner]

hehe,

hi Steve, long time

tell you what though, I'd put money on a 12 Fp .22 80 being slower than just about anything else - Ram or spring !

I think an HE RAM definately has less hold sensitivity - you tell me why ? Maybe just less recoil due to the lighter piston ?

[pneuguy]

As for the HE hold sensitivity advantage, I'll just have to take your word for it.

Steve

[stevensfo]

Buddyboy,

"Do you have any power level limits there ?"

The limit for 0.177 (4.5mm) is 15 joules, about 11 FP I think.
This calibre can be bought without a licence, BUT they take a photocopy of I.D.
I don't think there's a limit for .22 (5.5mm) because in any case, you need a FAC for this calibre. However these are quite easy to get providing you don't have a criminal record. Since the police here seem to regard Brits as being very law-abiding (No-true honestly!) this wasn't a problem.

I'll look up the info about the Venom tune. The only ones I know of are the Maccari kits from USA.

Steve

[Mark A]

A carbine length barrel is better for adding a silencer as an extra 5" on a standard length barrel will upset the balance and looks. It might be a little more accurate as well, as the pellet will leave the barrel faster so theres less chance of moving whilst the pellet is still in the barrel. If you want to add a silencer the HW80 isnt the best gun for this as it has iron sights fitted. Ive heard good reviews about the Longbow and am looking into getting the sidewinder version myself.

Mark

[adz]

Them Sidewinders are a beautiful gun, especially the thumbhole job, have you shot one yet?