Sale fell through-was I reasonable?

[stevie68]

My personal view on this sort of mexican stand-off

Folks can have as many references or vouchers as they please Unless those same referees are willing to underwrite the deal and guarantee the dough for my item in the event the person they've been so willing to vouch for legs it with an item, then talk is cheap and it would be same response as always.

'No credit, show me the money. First to say they'll do so gets it, soon as their payment arrives'

Someone turns up at my place of business with fifteen aquaintancies I dont know from adam in tow all singing his praises he'd get same response.

At end of the day anyone doesnt like it isnt being forced to buy the item, wait till another one comes up either from someone you'ld rather deal with or is more willing to accept cash after delivery.

All deals Ive had as a buyer on here have been good ones, in return I'll give the seller a little thumbs up for that deal but (and no offence to those sellers Ive dealt with intended) at end of the day I STILL dont know them from adam wether their next deal will be equally good is always for next buyer to find out for themselves

[guybinks]

Well I'm pretty much a newbie here myself so am prepared to get flamed here but, like it or not, the established protocol on the net (largely because of a well known auction site) is you pays your money and then your goods get sent.

If you aren't happy with that then really you have to ask yourself if it is worth a bit of petrol and a day to meet up if it is a hard to get or valuable item.

The other avenue of course is to arrange a paypal payment so you can make a claim if it goes pear-shaped.

It is a difficult situation though.

I would agree with this sentiment, pay up front, goods on receipt. Posts are posts, whether one or several thousand, on the BBS it counts for sure, but posts and cash aren't equal currency. No matter how much we respect each other.

Tricky doing private sales, unless its face to face - hence why a particular auction site does well, as there is an insurance policy.

Always two sides to every story, if in doubt, do nowt.

Use a proxy, or even a deposit to secure etc.

[Eagleman]

Not being funny but Bones was a well respected member and look what happen there
http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/show...ighlight=bones

I had no idea about this BoNeS business - missed it while I was away working. Just goes to show - I would have never thought it (despite once having the usual - it seems - slow service) possible given the overall "respect" he was afforded.

From my point of view unless I personally knew the person (and I do know Nick) I would never send goods first. If something is a big money deal then half way meeting is surely the best answer.

[Rapidnick]

Thanks for your responses chaps.
I accept most of what has been said. I would make the following points.
1. Trust is undoubtedly a two way thing. The member with fewer posts-the man here is not actually a 'newbie' -he just hasn't got many posts-has less ability to prove his trading record. Mine is there for all to see over an extended period.
2. The comparison with the procedures on another well known site is not relevant here. This is an online club of shooters joined by their common love of airgun shooting. The other site is purely commercial.
3. I normally make every effort to exchange goods for money in person. It just wasn't worth it on this occasion especially as the seller is not prepared even to make suggestions.
4. The point about long standing members going 'bad' is totally valid. It is however fair to point out that someone has to start the trust process and quite honestly I think I have earned the right to be trusted. In fairness to the other member there is nothing 'adverse' about him. That is not really the point though.
5. Condition of goods can be overstated. We all know that 'mint' is an overused term unfortunately. Cash however is simply cash!
6. Finally, unlike some, I have actually been ripped off on here to the extent of £400 of which £300 remains outstanding.. The circumstances were potentially exactly the same. I sent the cash and then the goods were not. It really will NOT happen again.

At the end of the day-how I hate that saying- it is up to both of us to decide what to do. I have decided that on a balance of probabilities I should be the one who is trusted. The other member clearly disagrees.

[Wheres me dummy.............]

Most of the time but not always,a while ago i sent a large payment to an established member with thousands of posts - and received nothing but a hard time for 4 weeks.

I the end i got the gun gun and Baz banned him.

I think its more about "feel" when trusting someone with goods or money,a good read of previous posts reveales a lot about character.

[Eagleman]

MEMBERS THAT HAVE DONE LOADS OF GOOD DEALS MUST STAND FOR SOMETHING.I CAN UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDE BUT FEEL DOING A SEARCH WOULD TELL THE NEW MEMBER THAT THE BUYING MEMBER WAS A SAFE BET.I HAVE JUST STOOD AS A MIDDLE MAN FOR REEVES OFF HERE.HE SENT ME A MFR AND THE BUYER COME TO MY HOUSE THE PICK IT UP AND I SENT THE MONEY THE REEVES.I HAVE ALSO BEEN ASKED ALOT IF A A MEMBER IS OK TO DEAL WITH.I THINK GOOD DEAL COUNTS SHOULD BE A GOOD POINTER TO NEW MEMBERS
MARK

You are right Mark and if I remember right Gary C offered an escrow service once upon a time. You have done something similar it seems. And you (and Nick) are right about good names being earned over time and over successful deals. Nick is as sound as a pound in all such respects. However, as Nick says himself, if the other party won't play ball in terms of compromise suggestions there is bugger all you can do.

[Fluffybuck]

Just out of interest; why does the buyer have to send cleared funds first?
But likewise, why should the seller send goods first?
I would say that it has to be by mutual agreement as to how the deal will be done.
The buyer is potentially taking on just as much risk by paying, then waiting several days for the money to clear, before he (hopefully) receives his goods.

[Rich]

If you've got a mate on here who lives close to the seller, send the mate the cash, they do the face-to-face local bit as your agent, getting the chance to inspect the goods, and only handing the money over if the item is apparently as described.

There must be several hundred members on here with post counts in the thousands and several successful deals behind them.

[Ady]

If I buy anything then, to me, its obvious I have to pay first and then get the goods.

If I sell anything, then again, I will send goods on receipt of monies.

Its just the way things seem to be done and anyone selling or buying accepts.

If you want to play ball differently then don't bother !!!

As for "Ohh I've been here ages, look at my history, look at my posts, that gives me an advantage, you have to trust me, therefore I demand goods first....." well get your head out from your own Ar5e, as t really don't care about your history nor how many friends you have, Its 'now' that matters

Like the first reply, I'd laugh at you and already am laughing.

if I offer to buy any of your items then I will pay before I get the goods.
If I decide, in future, to sell on here then it'll be cash first or get stuffed. (just so you know before you even ask)

Ady

[BigEars]

I suppose it sometimes boils down to how often an individual has been diddled in the past. However with someone like Nick, I've seen his posts and how he's helped other folks on here and I'd be happier to trust him then he might be to trust me.

[evilstoat]

the only way to be sure both parties get what they want is to, get a courier, to deliver the goods sign for them and pick the funds up when the item is delivered, obviously this would cost more but it would garrantee a smooth trouble free transaction.

I'm not 100% sure if couriers do this service but have heard of this sort of thing before

[Maltoid]

I am new have sold 3 items through here to people I have never met got paid sent items everybody was happy.
Thankyou to those three people you know who you are. I always trust people and I have a good car and satnav, If I got ripped off I would definately follow it up
Good luck

[Sam Vimes]

Nick,
whilst I certainly respect and trust you enough to send you a gun without payment first I can understand entirely why others wouldn't whether they've been on here five minutes or five years. Trust can't be demanded because of a high post count. I don't for a minute think that your request to the seller was unreasonable but neither is the sellers response to that request. If it's such a good deal or even right item it's got to be worth jumping in the car for and meeting half way. You could always see if you can find an intermediary near the seller even if that means waiting a little while longer for the gear. The alternative is to bite the bullet and take the chance or just walk away from the deal.
I can honestly say that I've no intention of selling through the sales section on here, I like to know who I'm dealing with and will pick and choose who I sell to. When I buy it is pretty much always from known quantities unless it's face to face or a relatively low value item.

Chris

[some bloke]

Not being funny but Bones was a well respected member and look what happen there
http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/show...ighlight=bones

This is why I will never risk substantantial funds with another member here again unless we do a face to face. My thinking was if you couldn't trust BoNeS - who could you trust? There is more to add to that other thread unless I get my money back, I saved most of the PM's.

No dis-respect to any other members here. More of my money was later spent with an american seller having "thousands" of feedback on that other site - who it transpires was one of Mark's suppliers.

Nice guy - very trusting...

[Cam.]

This is my take. (Based on actual experience of selling a stock to ChrisC)

I did not know ChrisC, so I took references from ESTABLISHED members (not just established by post count, but by their involvement in the shooting community) on the board who know ChrisC. ChrisC was pronounced as "sound", so i sent the goods before he sent payment. Apart from a postal delay caused by the floods the deal was conducted soundly.

Now, Mr Nick is also an "established" and "sound" member, so the seller could also take references and I would advise the seller to do so.

In fact, Mr Nick has agreed to buy my Cyclone, but the only reason I am not sending it to him, is that I personally do not trust the postal system to deliver a gun in the condition that I would like to receive it in.

Cam