Curious : Does anyone use or has used a single stroke pneumatic for target shooting?

[Greylag]

Hello Garvin,

I use the Titan Mohawk for hunting personally. I assume the Diana 100 is "tuned down" so as to be as smooth as possible for what I assume is 10m Precision target shooting.

Thanks for the replies all.

Regards

[Garvin]

Hello Garvin,

I use the Titan Mohawk for hunting personally. I assume the Diana 100 is "tuned down" so as to be as smooth as possible for what I assume is 10m Precision target shooting.

Thanks for the replies all.

Regards

Hi bud. Yes, I think the Diana was only ever made to produce between 6 and 7 ft/lbs, like the other 10m match SSPs.

I read somewhere that around 600fps with a match pellet was found to be the optimum velocity for ultimate accuracy at 10m.

I'd be interested to know what sort of tests were run to arrive at this figure and if there's a similar 'optimum velocity' for guns running at higher muzzle energy.

[engin]

Adie Wilkes (Phasers to Stun on the BBS) is the Parker Hale Dragon Wizard. He has been working on a silent totally recoilless Dragon recently and IIRC, has finished it.

He also has plenty of spare parts so if there are any more Dragon owners out there with "dry seals", Adie is the man to see.

I have shot a couple of his worked over rifles and they are very nice bits of kit. Only problem is, I have never seen a duf Dragon, so don't know how good a normal one is in comparison!

[dvd]

Yes the Diana 100 is (was)designed to be a 10 metre rifle. MV is in the region of 580 fps. Not designed to produce your normal 12ft lbs, because as has been stated earlier, wadcutter 177's like to travel at that speed best.
The reason could be their highly un-aerodynamic front, which is primarily intended to punch clean holes on paper targets, this might cause stability problems if the velocity is increased too much. These problems might not be so evident for general shooting situations(+or- a few millimetres), but for competitive 10 metre shooting, it makes a world of difference.
I stand corrected but I think that the reason that the velocity is kept around the 600 fps mark is because it is the best compromise between a reasonable pellet exit time from typically a 10 to 13 inch barrel, and low speed stability dictated by its shape.

[Garvin]

Yes the Diana 100 is (was)designed to be a 10 metre rifle. MV is in the region of 580 fps. Not designed to produce your normal 12ft lbs, because as has been stated earlier, wadcutter 177's like to travel at that speed best.
The reason could be their highly un-aerodynamic front, which is primarily intended to punch clean holes on paper targets, this might cause stability problems if the velocity is increased too much. These problems might not be so evident for general shooting situations(+or- a few millimetres), but for competitive 10 metre shooting, it makes a world of difference.
I stand corrected but I think that the reason that the velocity is kept around the 600 fps mark is because it is the best compromise between a reasonable pellet exit time from typically a 10 to 13 inch barrel, and low speed stability dictated by its shape.

Very interesting. Thanks dvd.

[Greylag]

Thanks all for the replies.

I'm a curious b***er and like to know why something is better or worse than something else for a particular purpose This has been explained fully by your replies with regard to the differences between guns made specifically for 10m target and general purpose airguns.

Thanks again all
Regards

[wonky donky]

Hi bud. Yes, I think the Diana was only ever made to produce between 6 and 7 ft/lbs, like the other 10m match SSPs.

I read somewhere that around 600fps with a match pellet was found to be the optimum velocity for ultimate accuracy at 10m.

I'd be interested to know what sort of tests were run to arrive at this figure and if there's a similar 'optimum velocity' for guns running at higher muzzle energy.

Hi, guys,

Haendler & Natermann Sport GMBH (H&N) did or had this work carried out, the "absolute" optimum for their top grade "Match Kugeln" as it was at the time, was stated as being 585fps. or so I was led to believe!

You may recall seeing a poster around advertising H&N pellets showing a pellet in flight, behind the pellet the "vortex" created could be seen. It was alleged that the poster was a reproduction of one of a series of high speed photo's taken during the investigations.

However I found out over 30yrs ago that velocity, & even the consistency of velocity was no indication of ultimate down range grouping.

H&N must have come to the same conclusion, as they used to carry out batch testing on their pellets & could supply Finale Match to suite a particular make of 10m rifle or pistol, ie. FWB, Walther etc. I know this because I used to buy selected batch's of 25,or 50,000 for all makes of gun! Also when you were at a big international shoot some one from the company would be there to supply the top internationals with 5,000 pellets from the boot of the car, so to speak, the first question asked was "what make Rifle/Pistol do you shoot"

Over the years I have been lucky enough to have tested these pellets supplied to the top international shooters, not one batch but lots, from a rig designed for the purpose, & I will state here & now if you didn't fire ten shots, from the rifle or pistol fitted in the rig, not just the action, but in the stock, & get one hole at 10m, that, when you placed a unfired pellet in the hole it didn't drop through!!! that would be unusual HONEST!

How ever if you swaped a batch say for Walther, and fired them through a FWB the groups would often be average or even poor.......

I realise I've not answered the question how was it arrived at but it's a bit more info!

One more point, If you asked RWS for a batch to suite a particular make of gun they would tell you they didn't do it, Hummmmmmmmm!

[Garvin]

Fascinating inside info wonky, thank you.

I've often wondered how far the top level match shooters would go to select their pellets - maybe even down to microscopic level to guarantee a blemish free lead surface and perfectly true flight?

[BigAl]

Just one question. Could the usual power level of 10m guns have anything to do with the fact that the German power limit for air guns is around 6 ftlb? 10m is mostly a German sport (something do do with occuping powers not allowing firearms after the war and a British officer suggesting: so go shoot an airgun).

Alan

[Garvin]

Just one question. Could the usual power level of 10m guns have anything to do with the fact that the German power limit for air guns is around 6 ftlb? 10m is mostly a German sport (something do do with occuping powers not allowing firearms after the war and a British officer suggesting: so go shoot an airgun).

Alan

I don't think so Alan because the German 7.5 joules power limit came into force on 1st January 1970 and 10m guns had already been made in large numbers for 15 years or more to shoot with velocities of 500-600fps.

[wonky donky]

Just one question. Could the usual power level of 10m guns have anything to do with the fact that the German power limit for air guns is around 6 ftlb? 10m is mostly a German sport (something do do with occuping powers not allowing firearms after the war and a British officer suggesting: so go shoot an airgun).

Alan

The 10m air gun was originally used indoors in the winter as a cheap training method for 50m & the like, thats why the design is/was so similar to the 50m guns, One indication of this is Walthers advert for the LP53 recoil!
It became very popular World wide in the end, with World, European & local championships, The sport was introduced into the Olympics for the first time at LA in 1984

[BigAl]

I Stand corrected.
As it happens I used to use a Gamo SSP target gun for practicing the standing back when I was shooting 3p, since I've had "ME" had to give up shooting 3p just cant keep lifting a free rifle 8Kgs is a bit of a lump! never was good enough to be really good either and 10M is a really demanding course of fire!

Alan

[wonky donky]

Fascinating inside info wonky, thank you.

I've often wondered how far the top level match shooters would go to select their pellets - maybe even down to microscopic level to guarantee a blemish free lead surface and perfectly true flight?

No, believe it or not once the batch is selected, they are used straight from the tin with just a visual check normally. Alot of shooters won't accept this statement, but, "There is nothing you can do to individual pellets to make them shoot a tighter group", ie sizing, lube etc. Selecting pellets from a batch for size & weight may well help at extended ranges but it's marginal, there's alot more to it than that! If the batch does not suit your gun then picking pellets of the same size & weight or resizing, relube etc, from within that batch will not give you the results your after!!


I will give you one instance though, of how beneficial it is IF you have the ability required;

Some years ago, Chris Hecter, many times Briish Champion 10m, asked if I would test his FWB & his pellets, I set the test up & concluded with the best will in the world he would not be able to score over 588 ex 600, to which he replied, "well 588 is the highest I'm shooting at the moment"

His rifle was fine so I set about finding a good batch of pellets for him out of about 150 batch's that wasn't too hard!

I gave him a batch of RWS R10s that he used the next week in the British championshios at Aldersley, Score 592 & a new British Record at that time!

Sorry for going on using 100 words when 20 will do, but I've spent the best part of 30yrs batch testing with air guns & I could just go on & on &.