Curious : Does anyone use or has used a single stroke pneumatic for target shooting?

[Greylag]

Hello All,

My questions are more out of curiosity than anything else.

Does anyone use or has anyone used a single stroke pneumatic air rifle for competition target shooting? If so how did it compare to springers/pcps?

I'm talking the likes of the Titan Mohawk (which I have) Parker Hale Dragon, Daystate Sportsman etc.

Thanks in advance
Regards

[dvd]

It is a Diana 100. It is one of the last SSP's designed, before the PCP's took over the 10m scene.
I do not think they are manufactured any more because they are not listed anywhere.
Best thing I like about it is the scope rail and bolt action. Good piece of kit for long range(20m) plinking at small targets.
Still phutting along nicely after many years service. Nothing ever broke on it.
It is up there with the best of them in my opinion.

just re read your original post, I think it is in a different league from the guns you mentioned (Titan etc).It is a full blown 10m gun.
The one thing it has in common is that it is a Single Stroke Pneumatic, but all comparisons stop there. I use it for informal shooting and don't compete with it.

[Greylag]

Hello DVD,


I think that the Daystate Sportsman and the Titan Mohawk are bolt action as well, don't know about the Parker Hale Dragon.

I've never done competition shooting or handle competition guns can you tell me please in what respect do you mean it's "in a different league"? are you referring to power, accuracy or some other difference?

Thanks in advance
Regards

[Garvin]

I could be wrong but I think the guns you mentioned are all near legal limit SSPs (and are multipurpose, ie. can be used for hunting?) and the Diana 100 is strictly a 10m rifle similar to the FWB 600 series. Very impressive rifle the 100, especially the improved second model with the stainless steel cylinder.

[Greylag]

Hello Garvin,

I use the Titan Mohawk for hunting personally. I assume the Diana 100 is "tuned down" so as to be as smooth as possible for what I assume is 10m Precision target shooting.

Thanks for the replies all.

Regards

[Eagleman]

Hello DVD,
I think that the Daystate Sportsman and the Titan Mohawk are bolt action as well, don't know about the Parker Hale Dragon.

Dave, the Parker Hale Dragon isn't a bolt as such - it is a probe which has a screw knob on the end. Half a turn releases it and you draw back as per a bolt. In effect, the design is like a bolt without being one if you see what I mean?

I had a Dragon in .22 but the seals had gone and I ended up selling it (on that basis). Dragon's in .177 were made but not many and they tend to fetch premium prices as they should - fine guns. I would think that they would be quite usable for competitions.

Alan

[Greylag]

Dave, the Parker Hale Dragon isn't a bolt as such - it is a probe which has a screw knob on the end. Half a turn releases it and you draw back as per a bolt. In effect, the design is like a bolt without being one if you see what I mean?

I had a Dragon in .22 but the seals had gone and I ended up selling it (on that basis). Dragon's in .177 were made but not many and they tend to fetch premium prices as they should - fine guns. I would think that they would be quite usable for competitions.

Alan

Hello Alan,

Thanks for the information mate. I didn't load the PH Dragon I handled but fired it off after cocking it. Very quiet and obviously no recoil.

I'm really enjoying using the Titan Mohawk. I've started setting up for the scaly tails at around 25 yards now as they're getting a bit wiser and the accuracy of the Mohawk is spot on (wish I could say the same for me ) mind I don't miss that many

Regards

[Garvin]

Hello Garvin,

I use the Titan Mohawk for hunting personally. I assume the Diana 100 is "tuned down" so as to be as smooth as possible for what I assume is 10m Precision target shooting.

Thanks for the replies all.

Regards

Hi bud. Yes, I think the Diana was only ever made to produce between 6 and 7 ft/lbs, like the other 10m match SSPs.

I read somewhere that around 600fps with a match pellet was found to be the optimum velocity for ultimate accuracy at 10m.

I'd be interested to know what sort of tests were run to arrive at this figure and if there's a similar 'optimum velocity' for guns running at higher muzzle energy.

[engin]

Adie Wilkes (Phasers to Stun on the BBS) is the Parker Hale Dragon Wizard. He has been working on a silent totally recoilless Dragon recently and IIRC, has finished it.

He also has plenty of spare parts so if there are any more Dragon owners out there with "dry seals", Adie is the man to see.

I have shot a couple of his worked over rifles and they are very nice bits of kit. Only problem is, I have never seen a duf Dragon, so don't know how good a normal one is in comparison!

[dvd]

Yes the Diana 100 is (was)designed to be a 10 metre rifle. MV is in the region of 580 fps. Not designed to produce your normal 12ft lbs, because as has been stated earlier, wadcutter 177's like to travel at that speed best.
The reason could be their highly un-aerodynamic front, which is primarily intended to punch clean holes on paper targets, this might cause stability problems if the velocity is increased too much. These problems might not be so evident for general shooting situations(+or- a few millimetres), but for competitive 10 metre shooting, it makes a world of difference.
I stand corrected but I think that the reason that the velocity is kept around the 600 fps mark is because it is the best compromise between a reasonable pellet exit time from typically a 10 to 13 inch barrel, and low speed stability dictated by its shape.

[Garvin]

Yes the Diana 100 is (was)designed to be a 10 metre rifle. MV is in the region of 580 fps. Not designed to produce your normal 12ft lbs, because as has been stated earlier, wadcutter 177's like to travel at that speed best.
The reason could be their highly un-aerodynamic front, which is primarily intended to punch clean holes on paper targets, this might cause stability problems if the velocity is increased too much. These problems might not be so evident for general shooting situations(+or- a few millimetres), but for competitive 10 metre shooting, it makes a world of difference.
I stand corrected but I think that the reason that the velocity is kept around the 600 fps mark is because it is the best compromise between a reasonable pellet exit time from typically a 10 to 13 inch barrel, and low speed stability dictated by its shape.

Very interesting. Thanks dvd.

[Greylag]

Thanks all for the replies.

I'm a curious b***er and like to know why something is better or worse than something else for a particular purpose This has been explained fully by your replies with regard to the differences between guns made specifically for 10m target and general purpose airguns.

Thanks again all
Regards

[wonky donky]

Hi bud. Yes, I think the Diana was only ever made to produce between 6 and 7 ft/lbs, like the other 10m match SSPs.

I read somewhere that around 600fps with a match pellet was found to be the optimum velocity for ultimate accuracy at 10m.

I'd be interested to know what sort of tests were run to arrive at this figure and if there's a similar 'optimum velocity' for guns running at higher muzzle energy.

Hi, guys,

Haendler & Natermann Sport GMBH (H&N) did or had this work carried out, the "absolute" optimum for their top grade "Match Kugeln" as it was at the time, was stated as being 585fps. or so I was led to believe!

You may recall seeing a poster around advertising H&N pellets showing a pellet in flight, behind the pellet the "vortex" created could be seen. It was alleged that the poster was a reproduction of one of a series of high speed photo's taken during the investigations.

However I found out over 30yrs ago that velocity, & even the consistency of velocity was no indication of ultimate down range grouping.

H&N must have come to the same conclusion, as they used to carry out batch testing on their pellets & could supply Finale Match to suite a particular make of 10m rifle or pistol, ie. FWB, Walther etc. I know this because I used to buy selected batch's of 25,or 50,000 for all makes of gun! Also when you were at a big international shoot some one from the company would be there to supply the top internationals with 5,000 pellets from the boot of the car, so to speak, the first question asked was "what make Rifle/Pistol do you shoot"

Over the years I have been lucky enough to have tested these pellets supplied to the top international shooters, not one batch but lots, from a rig designed for the purpose, & I will state here & now if you didn't fire ten shots, from the rifle or pistol fitted in the rig, not just the action, but in the stock, & get one hole at 10m, that, when you placed a unfired pellet in the hole it didn't drop through!!! that would be unusual HONEST!

How ever if you swaped a batch say for Walther, and fired them through a FWB the groups would often be average or even poor.......

I realise I've not answered the question how was it arrived at but it's a bit more info!

One more point, If you asked RWS for a batch to suite a particular make of gun they would tell you they didn't do it, Hummmmmmmmm!

[Garvin]

Fascinating inside info wonky, thank you.

I've often wondered how far the top level match shooters would go to select their pellets - maybe even down to microscopic level to guarantee a blemish free lead surface and perfectly true flight?

[BigAl]

Just one question. Could the usual power level of 10m guns have anything to do with the fact that the German power limit for air guns is around 6 ftlb? 10m is mostly a German sport (something do do with occuping powers not allowing firearms after the war and a British officer suggesting: so go shoot an airgun).

Alan