Long range airgun shooting

[RichardH]

Really Richard? Yet, without any wind, and using the finest hardware available to anyone, anywhere, my own modest efforts and those of some extremely talented marksmen, failed to produce consistent sub-inch groups at 100 yards.

I tried, I really did, as did others. We couldn't do it, mate.

I understand but you are missing the point.

I've never seen you shoot

But we'll take it as read you're more than competent

A sub MOA hold from a bench is easy, have a look at some of the groups in the firearms forum so the human factor is definately do-able.

The limiting factors are the rifle, the ammunition and the conditions, unfortunately people jumped to rubbish the poster and his skills or lack of them in reading wind.

As he was only shooting groups NOT a fixed 1" target reading the wind becomes academic as long as it remains a consistent condition (and your paper is large enough) that was my clear understanding from watching the posts in real time.

Unfortunately some editting allowed this misunderstanding to reach its logical conclusion before we could examine his kit and weather conditions in more detail.

I've no idea of the wind or atmospherics in Harry's Australian valley and sadly now we are unlikely to get to the bottom of things.

Richard

[Woodie]

I know decisions have been made, but I respectfully ask the mods whether they could reinstate Harry's account as we clearly all have unanswered questions and would like them answered. We are all adults, lets move on to solving the puzzle

[RichardH]

It was a very tough call, perhaps with hindsight it wasn't the best one?

Perhaps he will be invited back for a proper grilling?

Richard

[rusham]

I know decisions have been made, but I respectfully ask the mods whether they could reinstate Harry's account as we clearly all have unanswered questions and would like them answered. We are all adults, lets move on to solving the puzzle

From reading his posts on another forum, I don't think he would be interested in returning.

[RichardH]

From reading his posts on another forum, I don't think he would be interested in returning.

It might be prudent for him to do some editting

[Terry D]

As he was only shooting groups NOT a fixed 1" target reading the wind becomes academic as long as it remains a consistent condition...

Seriously, Richard, when does the wind ever become, and remain, a consistent condition throughout 150 yards, over the course of even a short shooting session? That's one huge 'academic' you're quoting there.

All the best.

[RichardH]

Seriously, Richard, when does the wind ever become, and remain, a consistent condition throughout 150 yards, over the course of even a short shooting session? That's one huge 'academic' you're quoting there.

All the best.

Hi Terry

In the bottom of a steep sided quarry perhaps (Like where I zero my big rifles)

Even indoors for that matter

Richard

[Terry D]

Hi Terry

Even indoors for that matter

Ah, indoors. Now why on earth didn't I think of that?

Hold on...

[RichardH]

Now I'm puzzled Terry

I think we can agree that:

1- A MOA hold is easily acheiveable from a bench?
2- A modern pre-charged legal limit gun can pull 1/2" groups at 50 yards (MOA)
3- There is no wind indoors
4- A modern FAC airgun can produce twice the legal limit in terms of energy easily

What ballistically therefore can cause a previously stable pellet from a 24ft/ib rifle to be unstable at 100 when a legal limit rifle at half the power is very stable at 50?

Is it a function of needing faster twist rates for heavier pellets?

In short why are you convinced its impossible when physics dictates it has to be?

Richard

[sniper-wolf]

Just spent half an hour reading this thread. I am interested in Harrys theories and very interested in shooting longe range groups on paper with sub 12fpe. I have achieved a sub 2inch group of 20 shots at 100yds and have started another thread on here about it. I also followed harry to the other forum, as when I got back from holiday, all his threads had been deleted and he had been banned. I have no problem with that, but there is no arguing that the man is very dedicated and knows more than most of us will ever know about long range shooting with air. I will continue to get in touch and discuss with him concerning his achievments, and hope to learn more, and I am even thinking of buying another FAC air rifle and set it at the same power as harrys to see if i can achieve similar results. I would never dream of shooting live quarry at these ranges with sub 12fpe.

Harry is a very clever man and has dedicated a lot of time, and wishes to share his findings for all to see, and have a go at it, I am certainly hooked.

He should not have been banned IMO, but I could'nt read what went on during that time because I was on holiday.

[Gary C]

Just spent half an hour reading this thread. I am interested in Harrys theories

Are they Harry's or lifted from the American forums? I've not actually seen anything original there. Not saying that they're not his..just asking like. Regurgitating chairgunner does not make them HIS theories

and very interested in shooting longe range groups on paper with sub 12fpe. I have achieved a sub 2inch group of 20 shots at 100yds and have started another thread on here about it.

Nice shooting. What you have done is found an interesting goal and derived some enjoyment out of it, excellent

but there is no arguing that the man is very dedicated and knows more than most of us will ever know about long range shooting with air.

Not sure how you can say there's no arguing. Nobody has seen him shoot, nobody has verified his ranges or achievements. He has told at least 1 obvious lie, and his posts manifest a deep seated need fo rrecognition which is dangerous when asking for unverified belief.


I will continue to get in touch and discuss with him concerning his self proclaimed achievments,

sorry wolfie, there's a difference.

and hope to learn more, and I am even thinking of buying another FAC air rifle and set it at the same power as harrys to see if i can achieve similar results. I would never dream of shooting live quarry at these ranges with sub 12fpe.

so therefore you are contemplating shooting rabbits at over 100 yards. Nice touch. Harry has indeed achieved something

Harry is a very clever man and has dedicated a lot of time,
Has he?
and wishes to share his findings for all to see,
He certainly does
and have a go at it, I am certainly hooked.
You certainly are

He should not have been banned IMO, but I could'nt read what went on during that time because I was on holiday.
Then how do you know he shouldn't have been banned?

So far, nobody has managed what Harry has alleged. His only proof comes from chairgunner and his own claims.

On one hand we have the finest shot the world has ever known. n the other we have an old attention seeker revelling in un provable claims.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Terry D]

In short why are you convinced its impossible when physics dictates it has to be?

I'm a simple, practical man, Richard, and I prefer to see things happen rather than being dictated to by theory.

I'm not convinced it's impossible, but having tried - and tried extremely hard - to do it in the real world, rather than via theory, so far it has remained impossible to create consistent, sub-inch, 10-shot groups, at 100 yards indoors or out. Thus, the idea of adding another 50 yards to that range and producing groups of a similar size, outdoors, has to arouse the 'curiosity' in me, surely?

[Salvius]

If you had a 150 yard-long barrel, then I reckon you could shoot some pretty tight groups at that range.

[RichardH]

I'm a simple, practical man, Richard, and I prefer to see things happen rather than being dictated to by theory.

I'm not convinced it's impossible, but having tried - and tried extremely hard - to do it in the real world, rather than via theory, so far it has remained impossible to create consistent, sub-inch, 10-shot groups, at 100 yards indoors or out. Thus, the idea of adding another 50 yards to that range and producing groups of a similar size, outdoors, has to arouse the 'curiosity' in me, surely?

150 yards is ambitious to say the least, I suspect reality is close to 100 but physics dictates it must be possible unless theres an evil vortex that applies to airgun pellets once they pass the magic 50 yards.

To shoot heavier bullets in centrefire calibres its standard practice to up the twist rate from 1/12 or 1/14 to 1/8 or 1/7 now given I would expect a heavy pellet to be essential to acheiving this why wouldnt this apply to airguns too?

By increasing the weight of the bullet from 55 to 80 grains and the twist rate from 1/12 to 1/7 a .223 rifle goes from a 300 yard gun to one with potential past 600.

Now has anyone got an airgun with a fast twist barrel?

Richard

[bengarzy]

Now I'm puzzled Terry

I think we can agree that:

1- A MOA hold is easily acheiveable from a bench?
2- A modern pre-charged legal limit gun can pull 1/2" groups at 50 yards (MOA)
3- There is no wind indoors
4- A modern FAC airgun can produce twice the legal limit in terms of energy easily

What ballistically therefore can cause a previously stable pellet from a 24ft/ib rifle to be unstable at 100 when a legal limit rifle at half the power is very stable at 50?

Is it a function of needing faster twist rates for heavier pellets?

In short why are you convinced its impossible when physics dictates it has to be?

Richard

It might have twice the energy but its not going twice as fast (which wouldnt help accuracy much as the projectile is not bullet shaped) so you are stuck with the projectile dfference between your centre fire rifle and Harry's pair of very ordinary (on paper) PCPs for comparison.
I didnt believe his claims when he got so much of the "down range energy" and other associated facts so wrong from what Terry and I and 2 others found some years back now and he would never answer those questions .

Ben