Long range airgun shooting

[RichardH]

Best thing that ever happened to it Graham, they were crap when they were brand new......

Ben

[Born Again]

Best thing that ever happened to it Graham, they were crap when they were brand new......

Ben

But at least they're cheap now

[Harry's Lad]

I'll confess to not understanding this "time difference" theory at all. If there was a formula relating side-on BC, wind speed and flight time I could understand it, but what on earth does the flight time in a vacuum have to do with it

Good question! It’s a very old rule-of-thumb that has the right dimensions and works in practice. The side-on BC thing is a bit of a red-herring, I think. It’s intuitively correct that the side-on BC value would make a difference but then, thinking about it some, the exposed profile of a projectile is basically a cylinder that has a dreadful Ballistic coefficient. So poor, in fact, that variations in the profile fail to make it much worse – or better. The side-on BC is therefore basically a constant regardless of the profile.
… but all of this is supposition – I’ll see it I can find a better answer and maybe post the answer here.

ATB
Dave

[bengarzy]

Good shooting films

A little different to Harry's claims though, 27 ft lbs with a 15-16 grn JSB waisted pellet you must be useing bullet shaped projectiles, makes a LOT of difference if they work in your gun at close to 50 ft lbs.

Ben

[bengarzy]

I understand that Harry tested the ballistic mathematics for Chairgun in association with the equations American author.

Ben, do your own figures allow for 4000ft altitude and the air temperature that Harry shoots at ?

Wouldnt know, Terry and I live in the real world so it wont have been a factor, but how ever high his altitude his projectile weights were wrong too so hes probably all theory and uses some one elses chart instead of actualy bothering to see if its correct (and in a lot of cases its miles out)

Ben

[Gary C]

is it that gary/terry/and ben can not do it so it must not be true and no one else can do it maybee thats why harrys thread was deleted

Ah...."Bigtime"

Funny name. Funny man.

Hmmm let's analyse the facts. Bloke in Oz nobody's met makes some outlandish claims. Some of the countries top shooters poo poo them.

Who would YOU believe?

oops. Silly me. You did say...

I despair at some of the people on here, if he said he could fly you'd all be jumping out of windows.

Let those who have a brain look at his claims. I'll spell them out for you.

1. 1" group at 150 yards with 27ft/lbs. (no contradiction from me)
2. Ability to hit a 1" target at 150 yards by judging the wind (requires +/- .25mph). Ha ha
3. Shot (plenty / a lot can't remember exactly) rabbits at OVER 100 yards with an eliminator and NEVER missed one and NEVER required a second shot. HA HA HA HA HA

Anybody who believes points 2 & 3 is either "slow" or has never shot.

Perhaps, if a few could open THEIR minds, you could look at Harry's posting style.

If you were in the pub and a bloke said - just off to the shops in my Porsche you'd laugh at him. Who cares if he has a porsche. In the braggart box. If you heard a bloke say "I'm just off to see my Consultant Neurologist daughter", you'd wince and think he's an attention seeker. Enter Harry. His words.

Put it all together and what do you get? "sniff sniff". Bullseet on yer shoe

In fairness though, it does give a leader to those who can't shoot too well, are jealous of those that can, and have a chance to shout loud.

Here's a simple challenge - put up or shut up. I have a grand that says says nobody on here can get remotely close to what Harry has claimed. There's 20,000 members or so. Top shots. I'll give you odds of 5-1.

Any takers?

[bengarzy]

I can only speak from powder burners Ben.

But we do shoot heavier projectiles much faster these days and the way forward here has been long proven to be faster twist rates in firearms.

Airguns may be entirely different but it would seem worth trying, who knows even Bobs air bullets might work with a fast twist

Richard

Yeh 1 in 1

Ben

[Woodie]

Gary,

I wouldnlt have thought it was possible to get a 2 inch group at a 100 yards, but sniper -wolf did and a 10 shot group( sub 12 ft.lbs)

Perhaps Harry is one of those chaps with a unique ability?

[bengarzy]

I’m guessing that Harry used the energy estimates (at 100 and 150 yards) from ChairGun2. He would be confident in using these since, paying meticulous attention to detail, he has already checked velocities at those ranges and is more than capable of conducting the simple calculation. I seem to remember that he mentioned (in the withdrawn thread) that he bulk-weighed the pellets – if you’re measuring velocity then the effect of tiny fluctuations of mass on the downrange energy equation are equally tiny. The effect on the trajectory is also tiny.
You also need to consider that, at 4000 Ft elevation, the BC value of a JSB pellet is enhanced so that the downrange energy retention is also enhanced. Where does this “about 70% up on reality” come from?



Please post these results. I’m sure we’d all like to see them. The ChairGun results (as quoted by Harry) seem pretty close to reality - and to Newtonian physics as we understand it. Perhaps you’ve discovered an anomaly in the time-space continuum …



The altitude is already (indirectly) accounted for. The generally accepted ‘Rifleman’s Formula’ – as used in ChairGun and everywhere else as far as I can see – postulates that deflection is proportional to the difference between time-to-target in air and time-to-target in a vacuum. In a vacuum the BC value is infinite but the BC value experienced in air depends primarily on the air density (which is, in itself, a function of air temperature and pressure). At elevation, the air density is reduced … so the BC value is increased (less drag) … so the time-to-target is reduced … hence the wind-drift is proportionately reduced.

Clear as mud, eh?

Dave

Harrys energys at 150 yards were more than Terry and I got at 100 yards and we had 3 ft lbs more at the muzzle with the same JSB pellet as Harry(27 v 30)
Harrys 4000 ft of elevation will not make more than a few % difference to anything I wouldnt think, hence my disbalief on all fronts.

Ben

[Harry's Lad]

Harrys energys at 150 yards were more than Terry and I got at 100 yards and we had 3 ft lbs more at the muzzle with the same JSB pellet as Harry(27 v 30)
Ben

I was asking you to publish the data so we could see where you made the mistake. How * exactly * did you measure the energy at 100 yards? What BC value was assumed? How was it corrected for ambient temperature/pressure/altitude?

Harrys 4000 ft of elevation will not make more than a few % difference to anything I wouldnt think, hence my disbalief on all fronts.
Ben

Ah, so this disbelief is based on your intuition. Perhaps if you actually did the sums as to the difference that 4000 Ft of elevation makes you could view the data a little more objectively.

ATB
Dave

[bigtime]

gary a few people on here have done some long range shooting with pcp and springers and the results speak for themselfs you maybee able to call harry a liar(as you say noboday has witness it from england) but can you call the other people on here WHO have posted there results with pictures liars i think not maybee you can not shot at 100 yrds plus yourself with decent accuracy but others seem to be able to do it even with legal limit guns.yes funny name but not a funny man.also why would a leading magazine publish such an article(bare in mind gary these magazine are there to promote are sport now if these claims from harry are not true why would the magazine publish such an article) so if they are not true and a leading magazine writes an article about it how can i belive the tosh you terry and ben are spouting on here.not haveing a dig just stating the obvious.oh by the way i would like to hear nigel allens view on this it can not be hard for mr doe to get him to put a post up in his own words as to why he would publish such a article if not true

[bigtime]

sorry you've started again gary!

a guy in oz came to this board and asked if there were any questions regarding this article made in the magazines about long range shooting!

You first instict was to then reply 'its impossible'

sorry gary, go and stop banging on about what you made harry appear to have said!

as for the rest of the bully brigade in here, get a life and stop discussing something which has been deleted.

it's a bit like sticking a dinner ticket in the backpocket of a double amputee and asking 30 minutes later why ne's not eaten!

secondly, where have all the posts gone which had links to photo's of longe range targets

sometimes wonder if this is a forum of free speech or if its a new version of an online airgunner/airgun world, where everyone is forced to read what's been vetted and edited!

kenny

yep makes you wonder where all the posts and photos have gone from people on this board to me it looks like if gary/terry/and ben can not do it then it gets deleted or is it that just once gary has bitten of more than he can chew and everything gets deleted just to save face.like i said gary not haveing a dig just stateing the obvious

[baz]

Depending on your skill at shooting it a 30ftlb rifle will extend your range considerably, plus of course much more hitting power, ignore people that say it only gives you a few yards extra, either they cant get an FAC or they cant shoot usually

I have humanely despatched rabbits in excess of 100yds with one in the right conditions and that aint BS its fact although the Ripley I was using was over 30ftlb, 80yds will be no problem if its a calm day

Case in point

That day it felt to be wind free, my ex was reading ranges off LRF and I first took a marker shot then used aiming mark to aim off as there was a bit of wind, the Rabbits died humanely, the rifle (Ripley XL25) was shooting Bismags just below speed of sound

[RichardH]

gary a few people on here have done some long range shooting with pcp and springers and the results speak for themselfs you maybee able to call harry a liar(as you say noboday has witness it from england) but can you call the other people on here WHO have posted there results with pictures liars i think not maybee you can not shot at 100 yrds plus yourself with decent accuracy but others seem to be able to do it even with legal limit guns.yes funny name but not a funny man.also why would a leading magazine publish such an article(bare in mind gary these magazine are there to promote are sport now if these claims from harry are not true why would the magazine publish such an article) so if they are not true and a leading magazine writes an article about it how can i belive the tosh you terry and ben are spouting on here.not haveing a dig just stating the obvious.oh by the way i would like to hear nigel allens view on this it can not be hard for mr doe to get him to put a post up in his own words as to why he would publish such a article if not true

You are aware both Gary and Terry write for the same airgun magazine publishing company that published Harry's article

I don't really know where that puts opinion, on the one hand the magazines are truthful and honest and on the other Harry's article was a work of fiction?

Hell now even I'm puzzled

Richard

[baz]

There is no such thing as free speech on this forum, its privately owned and you get to say what is allowed, anything that falls foul of the admins guidelines gets deleted, email Edward if you want