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Thread: Long range airgun shooting

  1. #46
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    Interesting discussion this - I think, if you pick the bones out of the sceptics argument, you will find that they are not denying that sub inch 100 yard groups (or 1.5" 150 yards FAC) are technically achievable. Stands to sense if you put enough pellets down range in five shot groups on a perfect day, eventually (after a few days) you'll get some to group under the magic inch. I expect this is what the long-shooting weekend will show.

    BUT the real deal with this is that you are simply shooting a small number of shots at a fixed point and then landing the pellets in a group on a sheet of paper. It demonstrates the ability of your equipment more than anything else. What is in considerable doubt is the ability to consistently land pellets on a specific target at these ranges i.e. reading the wind over this distance and making an individual adjustment to each shot to land it in a bullseye in a group under one inch. As the original poster indicated, he needed 150 shots to land 10 in a group on his paper. Sniper Wolf did some brilliant shooting but as stated by Buddy Boy, his group was nearly 2".

    Is it possible to achieve sub 1 inch groups consistently whilst also landing your shots on a specific target area with a sub 12ft lb rifle? I don't think so.

    I'd love to be wrong, but I've got to agree with Terry, Gary and Ben, wind is the factor, and not just wind, breeze, light breeze and even the slightest shift in the air. It will take your pellets left and right or up and down and, while they may still group, they will not land consistently on the target.

    This is why Harry ruffled so many feathers, he claimed to be able to combine grouping at range with pin-point accuracy on a target area and then use this skill to take down live prey. I'm not dismissing his claims because I am not able to make a judgement on the weather conditions in an elevated location in Australia but I very much doubt he would be able to demonstrate his findings in this country.

    Looking forward to seeing where this one goes!

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4 Carbine View Post
    What some people need to realise about long range shooting is that it's only meaningful if you have a reasonable degree of control over where the pellet or bullet strikes. There are cut-off points, depending on range and equipment where the whole exercise degenerates into a game of chance. Eventually you may as well be rolling 5 dice to see how long it takes for them all to come up sixes.

    I politely asked Harry to tell us about his methods for reading the wind and applying corrections ( before I came to the conclusion he was full of it ) and he didn't choose to reply. Not because he was banned either, he had enough time to write a number of long rambling posts in the meantime, while ignoring the question.
    Or ignore what I said, because M4 summed it up better and more neatly in a couple of paras!!

    I think I've caught Harry's rambling disease.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    Well, Sagres for one is at least reporting he has achieved it. (See the 1st post on this thread) .
    But he isn't, is he? He was shooting at 100 yards, not 150, where, after many, many attempts he reported 'I managed to get 1.5 inch group, then called it a day. It may have been luck,probably was but I certainly am not marksman, and couldn’t replicate that same group the next day, but got groups between 4 and 5 inches.'

    This is a long, long way from any sort of consistent grouping at 150 yards, Zico, and a world away from producing reliable, hunting standard accuracy at such a range.

    I'm sorry, and I think you'll find that I was always respectful to Harry during his short time on here, but having extensively researched this area of airgunning, I don't believe it's possible to produce reliable, humane accuracy, under field conditions, at 150 yards with any 27ft.lbs. air rifle.

    Experimental grouping is tremendous fun and pushing the limits of performance is what I do as part of my living, but using a live animal as a target is just not on. There are too many variables.

    Hunting is not about what's technically, theoretically or occasionally possible, it's what really happens when you squeeze that trigger. At 150 yards, in the real world of hunting, what's really most likely to happen is a wounded animal.

  4. #49
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    Terry,

    You cannot dismiss Harry's claims on my performance,as I am just average. I know there are much better shooters than me. Look at Sniper wolf, sitting getting 2 inches with a sub 12 rifle. I would like to see him do it benchrest with a 27ft.lbs rilfe and see what results he gets.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagres View Post
    Terry,

    You cannot dismiss Harry's claims on my performance....
    I wasn't doing that, mate, I was clarifying to Zico that you hadn't achieved what Harry claimed.

    Hope that makes sense.

    All the best,

    Terry

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    ... i dont shoot above 80 yds with an air rifle, and i dont have a FAC rated one to try, but if a sub 12ft/lb rifle can consistantly and humanly drop quarry at 80 yds and below then i dont disbelieve that a weapon with almost X3 the power cant do it!
    Erm...can we clarify this point before it all kicks off, Kenny?

    Are you saying you shoot live quarry out to 80 yards with a sub-12 rifle?

    Sorry if I've misconstrued, I've been up since 5 am.

    All the best.

  7. #52
    Born Again Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry D View Post
    Erm...can we clarify this point before it all kicks off, Kenny?

    Are you saying you shoot live quarry out to 80 yards with a sub-12 rifle?

    Sorry if I've misconstrued, I've been up since 5 am.

    All the best.
    A valid point, but are you highlighting it to deflect attention from the subject of Harry ?

    Just asking, like.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born Again View Post
    A valid point, but are you highlighting it to deflect attention from the subject of Harry ?

    Just asking, like.
    Why would I do that, Brian?

    I'm highlighting it to avoid confusion. Clarification helps on that front, surely?

  9. #54
    Gary C Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    thxs euan,
    i must also reply that between your self and owen (i can never spell his name) are a bl00dy privelage to have at our shoots! (oh theres one this coming sunday)

    I cant comment or blow my trumpet at your comments aboutrange safety as i only run a range the way i was taught and expect it to be!

    Gary your running away with yourself again and altering what was said in the original threads.

    Nope Kenny. I am paraphrasing accurately. You are looking at the old tosser with rose tinted glasses.

    until the threads are re-instated and we can cross referance tne truths from the wild accusations put grand back in your pocket and let this slide!

    I have no interest in reinstating anything, just dismayed at the gullibility of some of our members


    If you notice i have never yet tried to 'quote' anything directly but have merely stated facts that were on here, but even if the posts were back up it would still be unfair as they were heavily edited to suit someones outcome!

    who says they were unfairly edited? sounds like a whine to me. "I didn't really say it..."

    so please gary, drop this crusade against an ex-member who cant defend himself or reply since being hounded out of here!

    again - what crusade Kenny? did I start the thread? did I introduce Harry?


    what is being broadcast her again is non-factual versions of the truth, still to cast harry in the wrong light!

    ah, a conspiracy theory, never let the truth get in the way of a good old conspiracy


    If he annoyed you that much gary and got under your skin, you even told him it was impossible and that he was talking crap yet your hosting a long range shoot????

    Why not? I find the concept interesting. I like hang gliding, the difference is that Harry claims to be able to fly

    yet you ctirticise everyones posts here made about there attempts at doing the same thing, i have twice posting pictures on various threads of groups taken and they have magically disappeared, lets see if yours get to hang around!

    Who's posts have I criticised Kenny? Show me a few.


    rgds
    kenny

    Sorry Kenny, I offered to discuss this with you on the phone, but chipping away on here with illogical and rambling posts is more your style.
    That's fine.
    Follow your messiah Kenny, I hope he never lets you down.

  10. #55
    Born Again Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry D View Post
    Why would I do that, Brian?
    Why indeed, I'm at a loss as to why there has been such vilification of Harry.

    Why not restore the thread with the abusive bits cut out and lock it, then we can put an end to all the misquotes and misunderstandings.

  11. #56
    Gary C Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Born Again View Post
    Why indeed, I'm at a loss as to why there has been such vilification of Harry.

    Why not restore the thread with the abusive bits cut out and lock it, then we can put an end to all the misquotes and misunderstandings.
    What's the point Brian? there will then be accusations of thread doctoring to put him in a bad light.

    Ask yourself this.

    Why would I, or anybody else, seek to villify another shooter?. Envy? I don't think so. For the record, and the last time, I had doubts about the old fantasist when he started rambling.
    I cut in when he started making claims that ultimately could damage our sport. Specifically that he is capable of punching a 1" target at 150 yards. Not grouping, not having a few sighters, but straight off the bat.
    His second was the claim about never missing a rabbit over 100 yards. Totally risible and an encouragement to the gullible (and boy do we have a few) to start dropping pellets into live targets, completely against the work we all do to promote responsible hunting.

    I will comment no more.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born Again View Post
    Why indeed, I'm at a loss as to why there has been such vilification of Harry.
    First, there has never been any 'vilification of Harry' from me, not once, never.

    Secondly, the Mods took a decision for what they believed to be valid reasons. You may not agree with that decision but the Mods have a job to do and decision-making is a part of that.

  13. #58
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    Terry,

    when you tried this, what results were you getting with 60 ft.lbs?

  14. #59
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    Hey Gary nice to see some more reasoned argument from ya, rather than the stuff on the Harry thread....was suspecting you were pre menstral during that period


    My 2 bobs, I cant recall him saying that he could hit a 1 inch target at 150... was it not a 1.25 inch group at 124yds that he did once? Cannae mind exactlly and without the original thread, no way of checking.

    The second comment you stated re the 100 yd bunnys, was nigh pretty late on in the discussion, just before he got banned, and did this not original say the 'f'word and was edited. Not saying this kind of thing was right, just trying to go with the accuracy of what was said.

    Also, I don't think Harry is any kind of new age messiah, but he has opened up the sport a little into new areas, pushing the rifles to the limit re target shooting. And peeps are starting to show some decent results on not absoltelly ideal conditions.

    Although hunting at these ranges may be a different matter, as right enough the thing we are all pretty much agreed on is wind/air variance which can cause significant shift. However another country, and different attitudes to there quarry, perhaps he should have heeded the warning and steered away from that subject, as this is UK based and he probably doesnt understand the reasoning behind why we can't shed what we do, in any kind of bad light.



    PS Gary like the new sig, better than the old one.... but what is a Dinlo?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagres View Post
    Terry,

    when you tried this, what results were you getting with 60 ft.lbs?
    Worse than when I wound down the rifle to 38 ft.lbs., mate.

    I was using Bisley Magnums, graded, sorted and individually weighed - yes, it's tragic but so am I when I'm in 'nth-degree' mode.

    My average 10-shot groups at 100 yards, shot indoors with 60 ft.lbs. measured just under 3 inches. As I say, some pellets landed on top of each other, but others veered off to all points around the 1 inch disc target, sometimes by as much as 6 inches.

    Outdoors, using range flags every 10 yards to assess the wind, those 'rogue' pellets would often miss by a foot, when I could feel or see not a trace of wind. Most frustrating, I can tell you.

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