Is there a market for a modern pump-up rifle?

[kram245]

Personally, i think there is. it got me thinking about this at the weekend when i dusted of an old Crosman 140 pump-up rifle. Its about 35" long, weighs under 5 pound, i'd say, is standard apart from a feinwerbau sport butt pad i adapted to lengthen the stock slightly, and fitted an Anshutz adjstable rear sight. It was made late 60's, i think, a time before Crosman discovered plastic! 6 easy pumps give about 10.5 fp, whilst 8 give around the 12 fp mark. As with all pumps, very versatile, with 1 pump i was knocking flies off an old wall at 6 or 7 paces, but with 6 pumps its perfectly suited to vermin shooting. Unlike modern crosman pumps, the firing discharge is very crisp, almost like a rimfire, which reminds me af my old Sharp Innova.None of that blatty, farty sound!Trigger is steel, but like a lot of pumps, gets harder to pull with amount of pumps.6 pumps is a good compromise.
To bring it up to date, my wish list would be the following;
Keep the same , handy lightweight dimensions.
Facilities to fit a moderator.
Fitted with Williams peep sight but with scope rails.
Although a single pump would be nice, you would loose the versatility. Maybe 4 pumps for max power, which with modern materials and technology, has to be possible!
Prefer under lever pump, as opposed to side, for styling and compactness.
Modern 2 stage trigger.
I know Daystate tried a quality pump-up, with the MK1 Sportsman, which was'nt a great seller at the time, but today we have all become used to recoiless PCP technology, willing to pay near £300 for an entry level rifle. I for one would be willing to shell out on a quality, self-contained recoiless, lightweight rifle.

[fullmetaljacket]

Agreed, it would be great to have PCP performance without having to go to the trouble and expense of purchasing all the ancillary filling equipment.

[Taff Williams]

Kram,
I'm about to set about servicing my Sharp Innova as its showing its age. Like you and FMJ say the performance with lack of charging gear make it desireable but not for all shooting disciplines. The pumping action gets the heart and lungs going after a few shots, so it strikes me as a stalking / vermin control gun, so long as you can pump it up without too much movement or disturbance to whatever it is that you're stalking!

I think I agree that they have a place in todays armoury but perhaps its better to view them as springers (as in they need manual intervention to get the energy for the next shot) with variable power as opposed to PCP's without charging gear, what do you think.

Ogri the trog

[kram245]

Thanks all, Taff, agree they are not suitable for all shooting disciplines, HFT would be a bit of drag with all that pumping. However, with modern materials, design etc we could have a very easy pumping rifle that is not too tiring in extended use.For instance i prpbably put 100 shots through the Crosman on Sunday without too much effort, although would'nt like to do the same with a Sheridan i have. so a lot is down to design. Also, its been done an many pump rifles before, where you get 2 shots for your efforts.Bowkett modified a Crosman model 1 where 20 pumps produced 2 shots, first @591fps(11.35fp) and second @595 fps(11.49fp).Thats modifying an existing valve on a cheap rifle, i reckon that would be vastly improved with a new , purpose-built design. The reason i think the pump bears comparison with a PCP is in regards to recoiless action, and point of impact of the shot not being hold-dependant. Who can we get to build a couple!
Mark

[Taff Williams]

Kram,
Thanks for the reply, I had thoughts about "remote reservoir guns" a while ago. I had the idea that if you could wear a buddy bottle on a belt (for example)and connected to the gun via a high pressure hose, then you'd only need a regulator on the gun which (to my way of thinking) means that the gun itself would be lighter to hold in the hand. This goes against the stand-alone theory though.
I had not heard of the multi-shot pump up that you mention - 20 pumps for 2 shots sounds counter-productive if you can get 1 shot for 4-5 pumps but has the advantage of a back up shot should it be needed.
I think PCP's are such major players because of the ease with which they can be recharged in todays market (expensive outlay initially and affordable refills for dive bottles) after all, if you wanted a gun to do serious hunting without the need for charging - you'd probably go for rim or center fire.
I guess its all down to the major suppliers thinking whether they can make reasonable profit by producing a modern pump up.
I wouldn't like to try putting 100 shots through my Innova in one session though I'd be knackered.
Maybe when I win the lottery I'll be in a position to get some prototypes made, but for now its all in dreamland.

Ogri the trog

[DJP]

I'd like to see something along the lines of the Parker Hale Dragon - a single stroke pneumatic.

This design is used in quite a few pistols so I'm sure it could be adapted to a larger scale?

[Dirty-Harry]

I don't know if this comes under the heading of 'modern' (I think this gun's out of manufacture) But I've just got an extremely flexible Daisy Model 990



Flip the switch this way and you can insert a CO2 powerlet for up to 60 shots or so. Flip it that way and you can pump up to 10 times.
Pull the bolt back to it's first stop and you can insert the pellet of your choice. Pull it all the way back to feed a BB from the internal 100 shot mag.
It even came with the pictured red-dot sight!

[kram245]

The 2 shots for 20 pumps was really a bi-product of the work.Bowkett worked on the crosman valve to make it more efficient.It reached full power at 9 pumps.But the ability to pump it up before a stalk, so you've got a second shot could be handy in some circumstances.
My ideal pump design would make it a multi pump as to me it makes it more versatile, couple of pumps for plinking in the garden, then the ability to pump it up for full power. Also, designs like the dragon was large and heavy, by nature of having to produce the legal limit in one pump, so needing big, long pump arm for leverage.
I shoot all types of airgun, (have'nt got a PCP anymore), plus shotgun and rimfire, but for me, i would have a place for a relativey simple , compact pump-up, using a good set of iron sights or Williams peep sight for lightness and simplicity. The problem is all modern pumps are catering for a younger, U.S market, who use it a a stepping stone to firearms. The older crosmans, Sharp Ace and the very rare Daystate sportsman are more what i'm looking for.I just think with modern valve design and materials a cracking, stand-alone rifle could be produced, but probably the market would'nt support tooling up, design costs etc.Nice project though, although my valve expertise starts and stops with solving a dripping tap!

[R. P. McMurphy]

I would deffinatly be interested in a quality pump up rifle,i loved my Sharps as a youngster.Ive never seen a Daystate sportsman,anyone got a pic to post.

[waterboy]

I'd be interested in both a quality pump and a single stroke pneumatic sporter(6 to 8 ft/lbs would be plenty). Both being light weight, compact, sporting type guns.

[hendrickotto]

Daystate were making the Sportsman Mk II one stroker for a while a few years ago (about 1997 or so), and then decided to withdraw it, promising to revamp it. That rifle was unfortunately only in .22.
I wonder why they remained silent all the time and when they will re-launch one.

Hendrick-Otto