Competition pistol choice?

[fcat]

I'm after some advice....

After a lifetime of desultory shooting, I'm looking to take up target pistol shooting and doing some competitions - standard single shot 10m postal stuff initially, moving up proper events and maybe some five shot events too as I gain experience.

The overall question is what gun to get. I've talked to a few people and done some internet research and come up with the main brands, e.g. Steyr, Morini, Hammerli, FWB, Walther, etc.

I've also looked at the cost and swallowed hard - getting through £1500 on a gun and required extras looks frighteningly easy.
But, I do take the view that money spent on quality is often better than trying to do the job on the cheap. However good I may or may not be, I have no chance of getting good results with poor kit. Also good quality doesn't go out of fashion that quickly so depreciation might not be too bad on a good pistol. I know this is all pretty true in club motorsport but is it true of pistol shooting? Should I buy expensive new stuff or go for mid range kit initially, is second hand a realistic option given that the depth of my knowledge is limited and I might not spot a duff one?

Next, taking Steyr as a benchmark. The LP10 looks to be pretty good but the LP50 would give me that five shot capability for a greater range of competitions. Ignoring the extra cost, does the 5 shot design significantly compromise the pistol for single shot use ? (LP50 does have a single shot mag which makes it legal)

Finally, I'm edging towards Steyr over the other brands but it seems very subjective. Some people reckon the Morini electric has the best trigger but the batteries/electronics limit the adjustablility of the grip. FWB are clearly good but are they worth the extra money? Any recommendations, any objective reasons for choice here or is it really down to personal preference? (Oooh, nice paintjob - and yes I have seen race cars sold on that alone!)

Advice on these points and anything else that I should be thinking about would be gratefully received.

regards
Nigel

[northern35s]

How much you want to spend is entirely up to you, I spent £140 on a secondhand Alpha Proj that was shooting as well as, if not better than, a Steyr LP50 last night at my club. Alpha Proj and Air Arms have joined together to produce a PCP taget pistol:

Air Arms

Not yet released in the UK, but expect it to cost in the region of £450, there are also single stroke pneumatic pistols to consider, that said, if an LP50 is your thing then go for it, I'm more than sure you won't be disappointed

[SteveR]

Should I buy expensive new stuff or go for mid range kit initially, is second hand a realistic option given that the depth of my knowledge is limited and I might not spot a duff one?

Hi Nigel,

Welcome to the BBS, and to Target Shooting

Generally my advice would be to try and get your hands on as many different types as possible, since its not until you actually feel one that you can find out which best suits you. I was lucky enough to find a shop that stocked quite a few of the candidates, and when I picked them up one by one I knew exactly which felt right for me (LP10).

If you can visit a club thats another advantage since there are often members willing to let you try theirs so you can really get a feel for them. You could try the club finder on the nsra website:

http://www.nsra.co.uk

After a lifetime of desultory shooting, I'm looking to take up target pistol shooting and doing some competitions - standard single shot 10m postal stuff initially, moving up proper events and maybe some five shot events too as I gain experience.

People generally tend to go for a single shot for the 10M Precision, and a multi shot for the rapid fire events. Which as you know can end up being rather expensive. I think a lot of reasons for this is to do with the trigger on the multi shot Pistols.

The overall question is what gun to get. I've talked to a few people and done some internet research and come up with the main brands, e.g. Steyr, Morini, Hammerli, FWB, Walther, etc.

Each of those manufacturers produce excellent Air Pistols, the only real deciding factor is how they feel to you when you handle them. In terms of price there isn't that much in it your going to be looking at around the 1,000 mark for each when new.

Next, taking Steyr as a benchmark. The LP10 looks to be pretty good but the LP50 would give me that five shot capability for a greater range of competitions. Ignoring the extra cost, does the 5 shot design significantly compromise the pistol for single shot use ? (LP50 does have a single shot mag which makes it legal)

The major difference is that the LP50's trigger isn't as good as the LP10 trigger (not as configurable) - saying that I haven't shot an LP50 so I can't say from personal experience that its true.

Should I buy expensive new stuff or go for mid range kit initially, is second hand a realistic option given that the depth of my knowledge is limited and I might not spot a duff one?

I had a similar decision point, and went for the expensive. The logic I used was similar to your, that and the fact that the quality end tend to keep there re-sale value.

Also another thing to consider, if you do go for a more budget Pistol, then make sure it allows dry firing, otherwise you may find it limits you once you get into things.
Hope thats some help,

Cheers,

Steve.

[Firestorm]

Nigel,

Unfortunately I will never be allowed/afford to get a high value pistol, unless I sold my rifles and pistols.

But if I could, I would get the most expensive I could afford. It's not just about accuracy (that is a given above a certain price) it's generally about the better quality the more you pay, giving a longer life at that level of performance and less maintenance in the long run. And let's face it, more kudos and less devaluation.

Russ

[northern35s]

Nigel,

Unfortunately I will never be allowed/afford to get a high value pistol, unless I sold my rifles and pistols.

But if I could, I would get the most expensive I could afford. It's not just about accuracy (that is a given above a certain price) it's generally about the better quality the more you pay, giving a longer life at that level of performance and less maintenance in the long run. And let's face it, more kudos and less devaluation.

Russ

Interesting how you see the value of something equates to kudos, not what I'd have considered kudos to mean, normally kudos is attributed to someone with skill who has achieved something, not necessarily the achievement of buying something expensive, I know complete pillocks with lots of money

How do you equate the quality of your your AA S400, not very high?, seeing as it's not that expensive

[fcat]

I looked at a few pistols at my club but I have large shovels rather than hands so the grips haven't been that suitable which makes it tricky to get a proper feel. I am planning to go over to Bisley shop at the weekend as they appear to have quite a few decent pistols in stock. (I just know my credit card is going to get hammered!)

Interestingly, the LP50 has an optional interchangeable trigger assembly so it can run 200-600 and 400-1400. Neat huh!?
(I seem to talking myself into one of these without even seeing one yet!)

We all seem to agree that quality is worth the money and will help help at resale time (maybe "kudos" was the wrong word but I took that to mean Steyr's "reputation")

Oh dear. This is going to be expensive.


Final question, I can't see on Steyr's website what the muzzle energy is supposed to be or if the power is adjustable, anyone know? Not really critical as I'm sure its well set up, just curious...


cheers
Nigel

[Firestorm]

[QUOTE=northern35s;2790105], not what I'd have considered kudos to mean, normally kudos is attributed to someone with skill who has achieved something,
QUOTE]

Bugger off, smartarse. they know what I mean...

Russ

[sheene]

Go for the Alfa Project PCP, when they hit in England. I have one and it will outshoot me everytime!

[R davis]

These pistols are very good value for money.i have aeron B98, semi auto, 5 shots in 3 secs. dry firing, single shot mags as well. Afriend of mine has a Steyr, he used the aeron and had better results. aeron with morini grips fully adjustable. including compensator which is adjustable to allow better results for your chosen pellet. 80 shots. 200bar fill comes with 2 cylinders. you need a 232 adapter to fill cylinders which will screw into your air tank. you can get this from midland diving £32.

[tacfoley]

I bought the Feinwerkbau CP55 a few years back fully intending to use it for a range of air disciplines, only to find that I was not able to use it in UIT-type competitions because it is a five-shot. Sure, you can get a single-shot converter magazine, but it really is a PITA trying to shoot a comp with it.

My own fault - I should have looked into the future when I bought it.

I now shoot a pal's LH Steyr single-shot or my own old FAS604. Both shoot way better than I do, or ever could.

Every top level pistol will shoot way better than YOU ever will, too, so it really is, as already has been noted, down to you and the way you feel about it when it is in yor hand.

Make sure that you have two cylinders as well, and again make sure that both are full before you start a comp.

Don't ask me why this is so important.

Lots of luck.

tac

[P30man]

At the end of the day its the pistol that feels comfortable in your hand that is the best.
I am saving for the FWB P44, at the moment I shoot with the P30.
Start by buying a good second hand pistol and work your way up.
Good luck

[jonyb]

i think everybody has covered all the points.i can only add that my p.b. score of 555 at bisley with an lp5 has not been beaten by my other lp10.
i had a morini and found that the lack of adjustment in the grip was annoying as i shoot with a dropped wrist style,so the steyrs suited me better.a large range of different grips are available aftermarket for the steyrs. you could pick up a good s/h pistol for around £500 sterys,morinis etc. you dont need a lot of gear,just shooting frames/glasses,divers bottle or pump and shoes if you want to go the whole hog.
in my opinion if you are buying just one pistol go for the lp5/50,as it enables you to shoot more disiplines ,which equals more fun. dont let the trigger weights affect your judgement. for 10m precision shooting a minimum trigger weight of 500grms is required,once set leave it.
hope this is of some use.

[xbow]

I notice you're in Kent Nigel, but if you can take a trip to the NSRA shop in Bisley you can have a look at a good range of target pistols. They do have second hand stuff come up from time to time as well.

Vic.

[Prone Shooter]

At the end of the day its the pistol that feels comfortable in your hand that is the best.I am saving for the FWB P44, at the moment I shoot with the P30.
Start by buying a good second hand pistol and work your way up.
Good luck

Best bit of advice so far Nigel, from someone who I can assure you knows exactly what he's talking about.

Kudos won't win you silverware, the fanciest Steyr, Morini, FWB won't win you silverware. Only you will win the silverware, through hard work and lots and lots of practice. A natural ability will help as will a good pistol and by this I refer to the above names rather than twin master type guns. There are some good CO2, but I'd advise PCP every time.

Don't be afraid to go for a second hand pistol as long as its got a good history, i.e. a 10m shooter rather than someone who might use a Steyr LP50 as an outdoor HFT pistol. No disrespect to these shooters, but the fact they've used outside could mean more damp and dust has got into them.

Have a look at some of the other makes. I use a SAM K11 as do a number of members in our club. I like mine for the balance and oversized grip. The sights are clear as well. I couldn't get on with any of the Steyrs, but as Bob has said the P44 is special and if I thought I could improve, I'd be tempted.

Bottom line is, don't buy until you've tried. You'll get your money back on a second hand pistol and a high percentage of a new pistol. Get it right and you won't need to change.

Good luck

Bob (another one)

[majex45]

For what its worth, I bought an LP10 off this board and have never regretted it (from Alwayslearning). You can spend weeks just tweeking the grip to get it just right. Then you can move the sights back & forth and the fun is endless. Then you can shoot it. It REALLY shows up bad technique, much more so than cartridge shooting.
I did handle a Morini last weekend and it lined up perfectly for me. I'd really like to try one out. I'm now after an LP50 for the cartridge replacement competitions (sportpistol etc).
Buy quality (even second hand) and you won't regret it.