Question for the British reguarding BP laws.

[Tomahawk674]

I discovered that this site had a black powder section not too long ago.

My question is, if the UK outlawed all handguns and even the brococks, how is it you guys can buy black powder revolvers? I mean, it's great that you can, but I would have though they outlawd them along with the other stuff.

Here in the US they are also not considered firearms, even tthough they use an explotion to launch a lead projectile putting over 100ft/lbs...

[Buggy2]

Hi,

I don't know much about this, but I think the goverment thought that Black power hand guns were less of a threat because they take much longer to load than say a semi auto or a revolver with a speed loader. Also I suspect they think of them as much less accurate. So you are much less likely to run amock with one.

In reality you can just go and buy an illegal hand gun and ammunition quite easily and cheaply, proven by the fact that lots of people get shot by them in the UK. It was a big mistake to ban legally held handguns.

As a point of interest, as well as Black powder we can also legally have long barrel revolvers, again I don't understand why this should be so!!

I don't know what goes on in polititions heads

The latest is we are not allowed to buy new airguns from the UK from the internet. However we can buy them from abroad??? Which is really silly.

[Tomahawk674]

Hmm, what kind of monkey are writing you guy's gun laws? *sigh*

I do get what you mean though; I have a new beatiful Uberti replica of an 1861 Colt Navy in .36 cal. (Pics attached).

I've been to the range twice, and by myself it takes several minutes to pour, measure and dump powder, seat a lubed felt wad, position and ram down the ball, repeat that for 6 chambers, then place the caps....
With someone helping me I can reduce the time but still takes some minutes. That may be why you'll virtually never read a crime being performed with this kind of guns. I will say though, they are very accurate (maybe not in my hands hehe).

Anyways, everyone knows crooks use illegally bought firearms, I just wonder why all the law makers are blind to that fact.

[Smokeless Coal]

They are muzzle loaders.

When the ban came in gov said we could keep muzzle loaders as no one had commited any crime with them and the technology was obsolete. They thought a muzzle loaded pistol was just a single shot piece as many use for historical displays, of course we know different.

There has even been a modern design in the Patriot that uses front stuffing blocks.

The revolvers raise a few eyebrows when visitors go to ranges and along with the longbarrel pistols show what an ass the law is.

[Jim McArthur]

I discovered that this site had a black powder section not too long ago.

My question is, if the UK outlawed all handguns and even the brococks, how is it you guys can buy black powder revolvers? I mean, it's great that you can, but I would have though they outlawd them along with the other stuff.

Here in the US they are also not considered firearms, even tthough they use an explotion to launch a lead projectile putting over 100ft/lbs...

One bad feature (as you indicate) of asking "how then are you allowed to do whatever?" is that the powers that be may then decide, "from here on in, you're NOT!"

Yes, the UK has gone off the deep end with its gun laws. But I think the US would be in a similar fix today if our NRA hadn't gotten the guts to start fighting for our rights on the basis of what the Second Amendment is really all about: not "hunters and sportsmen" but individual and collective self defense and as a check on the powers of our own government.

Jim

[Simon G]

I do get what you mean though; I have a new beatiful Uberti replica of an 1861 Colt Navy in .36 cal. hands hehe.

Got an Uberti 1861 as well! Fortunate enough that mine is cut for a shoulder stock. It's my most accurate B/P revolver.

Here's a bad pic....

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8107/1333323uk3.jpg

[markH]

They may be slow to load but it was these revolvers that got the cavalry their reputation. You know ..... in the movies, the injuns only have to hear the bugle and they bugger off.

The deal was that in the days of the muzzle loaders, the cavalry used to carry 2 sidearms plus another 2 in saddle holsters. So 100 cavalry could charge up to any point on the battlefield, discharge the same firepower as 2400 infantry, then retire to reload at their leisure.

No wonder the Injuns was scared.

[Jim McArthur]

Beautiful revolver and stock, Simon! Did the gun come cut for the stock from the factory? Was it special order? Or did a gunsmith do it after you'd purchased it?

Jim

[Simon G]

It was factory cut, Jim.

[Jim McArthur]

It was factory cut, Jim.

I would like to eventually own a Colt Navy, and will probably get one so cut. Thanks, Simon!

Right now, I'm in the process of acquiring an Uberti Remington 1858, .44 caliber.

Jim

[Calibre44]

Here is part of a Home Office report concerning BP Revovers that you might find interesting:

'The Home Office acknowledged that muzzle-loading revolvers had many of the characteristics of handguns, but that in comparison with modern revolvers they are "bulky, unreliable and slow to reload".[176] Spare cylinders, which might be used for swifter reloading, were controlled components subject to licensing, and police forces tended to believe that there was no "good reason" for such items to be held on firearm certificates. The Government believed that the use of muzzle-loaders in crime had been "statistically and practically insignificant", and that there had been no growth in criminal misuse since 1997: it also believed that interest in this type of firearm among former handgun users had diminished as its limitations became apparent. Mr Clarke told us that "there is not a track record of criminal use of these weapons in Scotland or elsewhere".

[Hemmers]

As a point of interest, as well as Black powder we can also legally have long barrel revolvers, again I don't understand why this should be so!!

I don't know what goes on in polititions heads

They didn't actively allow us to have long-barrelled revolvers/pistols, they just didn't ban them (because they largely didn't exist at the time!). In order to ban an inanimate object, you first have to define what that object is. So they thought "right, barrel length >30cm, system length >60cm" no handgun is bigger than that unless you're taking the piss"

And previously, no handgun was...until gunsmiths decided that they would take the piss...

When the Longarms for doing free pistol were first brought out (which I think were one of the first LB guns), Home Office took one look at it and said "no it's a pistol".
So the issue was taken to court, and the judge ruled that as they were so long they were not concealable and in any case fell outside the HO's own definition (and in the case of the free pistols, they're single shot .22lr. Not exactly good massacre guns).
I think his phrase was "it would neither frustrate nor obstruct the law by permitting them".
And that opened the floodgates to everyone else converting stuff and designing their guns around the HO definition.

[Jim McArthur]

And, just to show how goofy the law is: in the US, a long-barrelled revolver or pistol probably would be legal, IF legally regarded as a pistol. Cartridge pistols are legal to own here.

However, if classified as a rifle, it would be illegal, unless you went through a lot of federal red tape, because LBR's and LBP's have barrels that are too short, and they are too short in overall length (16 and 26 inches respectively) to be legal AS rifles.

Want to hear something even crazier?

In my hometown of Philadelphia, I could get a concealed weapons permit from the State, and walk the streets legally armed with a 15-shot 9mm automatic pistol.

However, I could also be arrested for having a single shot BB gun in my own home. Philadelphia has a city ordinance banning the use or possession of air guns.

Crazier yet?

The State (Pennsylvania) has a preemptive statute, preventing municipalities from regulating the sale or possession of firearms.

However, that doesn't affect Philadelphia's anti-BB gun ordinance: because air guns aren't legally regarded AS firearms, hence don't come within the ambit of the statute.

Jim

[Jim McArthur]

Here is part of a Home Office report concerning BP Revovers that you might find interesting:

'The Home Office acknowledged that muzzle-loading revolvers had many of the characteristics of handguns, but that in comparison with modern revolvers they are "bulky, unreliable and slow to reload".[176] Spare cylinders, which might be used for swifter reloading, were controlled components subject to licensing, and police forces tended to believe that there was no "good reason" for such items to be held on firearm certificates. The Government believed that the use of muzzle-loaders in crime had been "statistically and practically insignificant", and that there had been no growth in criminal misuse since 1997: it also believed that interest in this type of firearm among former handgun users had diminished as its limitations became apparent. Mr Clarke told us that "there is not a track record of criminal use of these weapons in Scotland or elsewhere".

And yet they are legal to own, only if ON firearms certificates.

Jim

[Chocchip]

It gets even weirder. You could have a matching pair of antique dueling pistols and if you wanted to shoot one you'd have to put in your FAC and keep it locked in your cabinet, but the other one thats not on ticket and not intended to be shot can quite happily be left hanging off your front door.