humane kill?

[Andrew006]

This thread could be extremely entertaining if people did not jump down others throats. (I'm not sticking up for the troll from down under either) But everybody is entitled to an opinion on most matters concerning fieldsports. This might upset some on here, but being anti-hunt does not mean being an anti. (I am not a hunt protestor)

Alex, I have to disagree with your humane fox killing. A fox hunt is not humane, the fox is literally run until its heart and lungs can stand no more. Its fear is clearly seen in the eyes before being ripped apart by the hounds. (I have seen this, close up, my father-in-law owns a farm, where a hunt quite often goes through.)

Lets not confuse vermin control and landed gentry fun.

I am a countryside person, I love the countryside, I love my hunting and I respect the countryside way of life (except for the Fox hunt), but no matter what anybody says, I cannot condone fox hunting and nobody will convince me either.

Some will say that once you get fox hunting banned, other fieldsports will be next, thats nonsence in my book. There is a huge difference between the two.

Just my opinion anyways, thanks for reading.

Andy

[treesurgeon]

The devils advocate, i like your style. Its refreshing to hear different views, especially when they are not wrapped in sometimes laughable self righteous tripe. We sometimes sound like such moral crusaders. If we felt such genuine compassion for rabbits, would we shoot them ? I do completely agree with dispatching quarry cleanly but just sometimes think we loose site of what we really are, hunters. We enjoy what we do, whether it be for genuine pest control, food , or sport . Its fun & fun isn't wrong.

[si72]

I just wanted to get a debate going not start upsetting people. if you get upset you cannot defend your position. I do not care what people call me and the stuff to pat steve etc was just banter they give it to me i give it back. i think all sides were argued well and on an issue like this people are bound to get heated. but let me be clear on the following:
1) i am pro shooting
2)i do not feal sorry for rabbits etc
3)i kill them as effectivly as i can
4)i have shot many
5)i am not a bad shooter
6)i take the p##s sometimes.
finaly i dont see how lumping shooting in with fox hunting by defending it is going to help your cause in the uk. people find it an abhorent practice and it will be shooting next if you do not distance yourselves from it.

Iconsider this matter closed
thankyou all
si

[Steyr]

I believe in the principle of humane kills.

It is the desire to fulfill mans instinct to hunt (as we can also be hunted by other predators in the world) but the defining point is the desire to despatch the quarry in such a way so that it is not aware of its departure ie a complete one shot lights out deal.

That is the theory and like many things in life, theory and reality do not often meet in a seamless fashion.

If I aim at quarry and pull the trigger, my intention is humane despatch. Life aint like that and you may have to take a 2nd or even a third shot. I hate it but that is life pure and simple. This is not always down to poor marksmanship either IMHO.

The vital areas can be very small targets - look at some humane accidents and wonder how they survived whith the injuries they sustained ! Conversley - you may get stung by a wasp and die - how perverse is that.

This is a personal view but I am not a fan of hunting with horse and hound.

What Alex said about few foxes being caught and being left wounded may well be true but it departs from the humanity equation because the quarry is chased and run down until it either escapes or is caught and despatched by the dogs.

I do not classify this as a stress free departure from this world.

I do not support fox hunting for many reasons but if you apply the term pest control to this, then I think there are more efficient ways of covering the number of foxes caught by horse and hounds alone.

If you pick up a rifle to hunt, your ultimate aim (pardon the pun) is to deal a speedy blow to the quarry so that it does not (quite literally) know what hit it.

However, before you squeeze the trigger you must accept that no matter HOW CAREFUL you are, there will be occasions when you will fail. If you cant deal with that issue, then dont pick up the rifle in the first place.

That seems simple enough to me.

I accept that responsibilty and am answerable when I cock it up. I am answerable to ME........

Steyr

May your aim be true and your back up shot swift

[rudy]

my 2 cents

I know where I'm going on holiday
10 days of pure hunting bliss more rabbits than crabs on a hookers ####
I wonder who else would want to come, we should all go and help them out, that would sort them out.
do you know some place where we can stay

[Davestate]

Originally posted by si72
this is surely a contradiction in terms. in any case can anyone honestly say hand on heart that they 100% get this result?
how can it be guaranteed no mater how good a shot u r ? the fact is it cannot. a kill is a kill there is nothing humane about.

Going back to the original post (minus the golf bit), If you, Si72 in this case, are intending to hunt with a kill zine of 1.5" at 25-30mtrs, then, IMHO, you aren't hunting at all. I would class this sort of shooting that should be done to tin rabbits only, it isn't humane to hunt with this range of accuracy to begin with. Just my view on things.
BTW, how's the missus Si?

[RemMag]

To those of you who disagree with me on the Foxhunting, fair enough.

I have to say that I do not participate in it myself, and feel no particular desire to, it doesn't bother me that other people do it though. (How did I get dragged into the fox hunting debate, again )

With regards to shooting:

1)Sorry if I sounded self righteous, I was just trying to explain that 'Humane Hunting' is not, IMHO a contradiction in terms at all. It makes sense to me, and it seems to make sense to most of us.

2)I do not cry when I kill rabbits, or anything else for that matter. I don't find it distasteful to kill, but by the same token the act of killing itself does not excite me all that much, if it did I would just by gerbils and drown them in the sink, 'cos it would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Surely that is a fairly clear distinction??

3) What the hell are we 'arguing' or 'debating' about??? Si's original post seemed to be saying that when we say we try to be 'humane' we are talking rubbish and should take up golf. (But are golfing trousers really humane either?) But by his own admission he follows up wounded quarry, and endeavours to kill it as efficently as possible, which is as good a definition of humane hunting as I have ever heard.

4) We can all agree that 'Humane' is perhaps a relative value. For example, I understand it is regarded as reasonably acceptable (in those kind of circles) for Elephants to be shot in the heart and lungs to drop them and then to be despatch with a head shot shortly afterwards. I would regard that as an acceptable practice, because I appreciate the technological and physical problems concerned with shooting something that large with a rifle means that it is technologically difficult to guarantee a one shot kill. (I suppose you could always use a Milan though!) That said, many elephants do fall to one shot kills aswell. However, when it comes to rabbits, the technology to kill them with one shot (most of the time) is readily available and damn near perfect.

5)I guess that we all need to come to our own decisions about what we regard as humane.

All the best.

Alex

[max headroom]

is humane kill the same as quick despatch.
if i cant get a head shot in i look for one in the chest cavity.
mr. and mrs. bunnie wont always stand in the way you want.
if they decide not to present themselves for a quick despatch, let them go.
congrats on the nipper by the way si.
i do seem to remember though it`s legal to make your own grog in nz, this couldn`t be another factor in the discusion?.