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Thread: New firearms Laws: Standard pellets to be used in power checks?

  1. #1
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    New firearms Laws: Standard pellets to be used in power checks?

    About the Home Office's new Firearms Laws consulation document:

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs3/c...n_firearms.pdf

    I am preparing my response, amongst other things I will be asking for airguns power to be tested with a single standard pellet that is available to the public, so that people can set up their rifles legally with those pellets, without worrying about vindictive coppers testing them with lightweight Prometheus or heavyweight rabbit magnums and finding them over the limit that way.

    I will also be requesting that airguns are no longer referred to as 'air weapons', this is a misnomer that has really got on my nerves over the years, since only about 0.03 per cent of airguns are used as weapons (if you apply the dictionary definition of the word 'weapon', which is "an object used to injure or threaten another"), even airguns that are used illegally are only very rarely used as weapons.

    I really think that everyone on this BBS should write in asking for these things. What else would other people from this BBS be asking for?

  2. #2
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    I agree with you totally but having recently had correspondance with Caroline Flint minister for(against) shooting I reckon you will find the governments already made its mind up on this matter
    irrespective of the truth.
    Incidently Caroline Flint stated 80 self Contained Gas Cartridge guns had been used in a range of crimes up to murder.

  3. #3
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    Originally posted by rabbitman
    I agree with you totally but having recently had correspondance with Caroline Flint minister for(against) shooting I reckon you will find the governments already made its mind up on this matter
    irrespective of the truth.
    Incidently Caroline Flint stated 80 self Contained Gas Cartridge guns had been used in a range of crimes up to murder.
    Would you be able to expand on all that for me please mate?

    TIA,

    Dan

  4. #4
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    I think that if this really is an attempt to rationalise complicated law, there should be similar amounts of tightening and easing, rather than all of one and none of the other.

  5. #5
    Mick H Guest

    Thumbs up

    Yeah, the standard pellet / pellet weight would is a good idea,
    let's hope they go for it.
    Good Luck
    Mick

  6. #6
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    "I think that if this really is an attempt to rationalise complicated law, there should be similar amounts of tightening and easing, rather than all of one and none of the other."

    I hope that this really is the case Robin, but I too am a bit cynical these days.

    There are many people on this BBS who would rather talk about the minutiae of our sport, than do something constructive to preserve it. They would rather talk about which scope or silencer or trigger shoe is best, than write to their MP or their government to at least try to save their sport. At least when the axe falls, those of us that have sent in their views on this document, wrote to their MP etc will know that they did something at least to save airgunning.

    If people don't do something, after they have handed in their guns for destruction, they will always wonder if they could have made a difference...

    Sorry for being so cynical...


  7. #7
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    Never ending story...

    I fully agree with your pledge to use a standard pellet as it will remove much of the twillight surrounding the legal limit.

    As far as the word Airweapon is concerned, just live with that word, personally I think it is a weapon (looks and general idea of shooting a projectile) and we need to think about it as a weapon and handle it as a weapon; it can be used to kill or injure another which can be animal or human.

    The law is there to basically rout the use of any gun and the discussion is endless. Every country has their own law, and they all keep looking at other countries and as a result change their own law etc etc etc.

    Len
    Last edited by Len; 20-05-2004 at 11:50 AM.
    Theory Men: They all know how it should work but it doesn't
    Practice Men: Everything works but nobody knows how

  8. #8
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    "As far as the word Airweapon is concerned, just live with that word, personally I think it is a weapon (looks and general idea of shooting a projectile) and we need to think about it as a weapon and handle it as a weapon; it can be used to kill or injure another which can be animal or human."

    Sorry Len, I don't agree at all there. The fact that it can be used as a weapon doesn't mean a thing. There are more people bashed every year with golf clubs than shot with airguns (according to Home Office statistics), and golf clubs evolved from weapons, but do we have golf weapons? Are shotguns referred to as 'shot weapons'? No, they aren't. The very word 'weapon' is an insult to the 99.8 per cent of airgun shooters who are intensely law-abiding.

    The word 'weapon' has bad connotations, and it's continual use in connection with airguns unfairly blackens our name and helps to turn the public against us.

    I know that I am arguing about semantics here, but what's wrong with referring to airguns as airguns? Why do we have to be tarred with that brush?

    The fact that some animals are shot with airguns is neither here nor there, full-bore rifles used for shooting deer are referred to as sporting guns or sporting arms, not sporting weapons.

  9. #9
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    Ignoring the airgun/weapon minutiae for the minute.

    Assuming we were all to write to our MP's, should we follow a standard format or just present our views as they effect each of us; Is the best form to write snail mail or Email to be most effective?

    Should we also follow guidelines from BASC/BASA before (excuse the pun) shooting our mouths off.

    I've printed the entire document so I can smother it in comments that I can later collate into a legible reply.

    Views so far?

    Ogri the trog
    Improvise, Adapt & Overcome

  10. #10
    Beer Hunter Guest
    Gents,

    I’d suggest that we collate our views and then formally request that the BASC petition on our behalf. After all, this is their area of expertise and one of the reasons we pay our membership.

    I believe that much of the time the BASC simply give lip service to airgun issues; but if presented with a request for action from several hundred members, they would have to take note.

    TER…

  11. #11
    draftsmann Guest
    Now that the absolute offence committed in inadvertantly possessing a 12.1 ft lb air rifle carries a mandatory sentence, the shooting bodies should be pursuing a standard test, probably based on a degreased pure lead ball fired through a cleaned and degreased bore and with ambient temperature within a specified range.

    Campaigning for a change from using the word "weapon" in the legislation on the other hand is a waste of time and energy better devoted elsewhere IMO.

    Adrian

  12. #12
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    "Campaigning for a change from using the word "weapon" in the legislation on the other hand is a waste of time and energy better devoted elsewhere IMO."

    Firearms laws as a whole are under review, the consultation document covers pretty much everything to do with firearms. I know that some people see the use of the word 'weapon' as trivial, but it's just one of many things about the UK's firearms laws which I think is wrong.

    My point is that any shooter who reads the consultation document will have views on it's content, and views on how to make the laws better for everyone, and while each shooter's views will be different, every shooter that writes in strengthens the case for shooting sports as a whole.

    If you don't think that them referring to airguns as weapons is important, then fine, I am sure that you will find other things to write about in that document. As many shooters as possible should write in, after all, the GCN and other anti-gun groups will be writing in as well.

  13. #13
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    view points

    Originally posted by draftsmann
    Now that the absolute offence committed in inadvertantly possessing a 12.1 ft lb air rifle carries a mandatory sentence, the shooting bodies should be pursuing a standard test, probably based on a degreased pure lead ball fired through a cleaned and degreased bore and with ambient temperature within a specified range.

    Campaigning for a change from using the word "weapon" in the legislation on the other hand is a waste of time and energy better devoted elsewhere IMO.

    Adrian
    No, we are not going to discuss amongst ourselves about the word weapon or gun, forget about it, this was just my personal opninion. However, this does illustrate our sensitivity to any alterations in the law and the fact that public opinion in general has been pushing us (dedicated airgun shooters) around for too long, seems like we are always at the receiving end.

    At the same time I dare state that hardened criminals will pick up all sorts of guns left right and centre while the likes of us will remain gobsmacked.

    Absolutely right, we can all have our different opninions but as far as testing of airguns is concerned there should be a standard test with set parameters, like pellet shape, weight etc etc. The word test implicates a certain procedure with set references
    Theory Men: They all know how it should work but it doesn't
    Practice Men: Everything works but nobody knows how

  14. #14
    draftsmann Guest
    Out of interest Rob what term would you prefer used? Something like "gas powered firearm"?

    Adrian

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by draftsmann

    Campaigning for a change from using the word "weapon" in the legislation on the other hand is a waste of time and energy better devoted elsewhere IMO.

    Adrian
    Absolutely - call a spade a spade. If the W word becomes taboo, those of who shoot, for example, Lee-Enfields - a W-thing if ever there was one - will be separated off from those who shoot "air operated ballistic sporting devices" or whatever damn PC name they acquire in this brave new world...

    Regards,
    MikB
    ...history... is, indeed, little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind. (Edward Gibbon: Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire)

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