Reply With QuoteI think the grease is to stop a chain fire, I could be wrong, most of it disappears with the first shot and makes a terrible mess.
Repro revolvers don't have the tapered cylinder like the originals, maybe that's the problem
Banned
ok then looking for some opinions
I have a lovely pietta 1858 NMA stainless target model
Im fairly new to black powder and it shows on the target sheets
shooting one handed at 25yards I can just about keep the 6 shots on an A4 sheet of paper
anyway I currently have a regime of 26grains of pyrodex P a yellow felt wad and then the .454 ball 160gr?
anyway I have noted that some BP shooters will put grease in the end of the chambers over the ball,
is this just to protect the barrel?, or does it somehow improve the travel of the ball down the barrel??
so do you use grease or dry??
and why please??
Registered User
I think the grease is to stop a chain fire, I could be wrong, most of it disappears with the first shot and makes a terrible mess.
Repro revolvers don't have the tapered cylinder like the originals, maybe that's the problem
Registered User
You will find the more you practice with it the better you get, sorry stating the obvious here. I used to shoot my .44 Remmie target Euroarms s/s at least three times a week and could get 2 inch groups - er on a good day. From what you say your doing fine especially single handed.
Felt wads tried the ones you can buy, and made my own, used them dry and also tried them using a mixture of melted bees wax and a drop of olive oil. Oh you can also rub Remington Wonder lube on them. However the method I find best is lubing over the ball with TREX - VEG OIL - see Morrisons Tesco's etc. This is what the American's use see Cowboy Action Shooting sites. Their version of TREX known as CRISCO.
The advantage the wad method will likely give you is that it will move the ball closer to the start of the barrel therefore more accuracy. You can use fillers tried that as well, but as I said earlier I find just TREX over the ball works fine.
Can't remember what I used as a filler sorry - again available via the above mentioned. I found it fiddly and not worth the extra effort.
Safe shootin bud..
Registered User
I shoot a Rogers and spencer in .44 and ALWAYS cover the loaded ball with wonder lube. Although some does fly out with the first shot enough remains to seal against chain firing and also lubricates to helps keep the crud soft so aiding cleaning ect. Try firing a few shots with no lube and see what your barrel looks like! I have tried home made concoctions and even water pump grease but wonder lube seems to work best for me. My std load is 20 grns of TS2 b/powder topped up with semelina so as to bring ball up to top of the cylinder, .451 home cast ball covered with wonder lube and a no11 remington cap. After 8 years i can generally keep 8 out of 12 shots in the black of a PL8target (8" black centre) at 25 yds. But, i shoot like a wuss. Others who shoot on the range can keep em all in a 3" group.
Practice and a bit of good advice will help scores but i tend to shoot a range of guns so dont practise enough with one gun to be any good plus i shoot black powder for fun so dont really care if they dont allways hit the bull. I also find my scores are better when i stop trying too hard and just enjoy myself..
Banned
aha now thats raised another very interesting point, position of the ball in the chamber
will try packing it out to get the ball closer to the end of the chamber and see what effect that has for me
I know that Im well wide of the mark on accuracy, but I have only used the gun twice, probably put 24-30 shots on it, I love it but sadly my time was stolen by a new rifle build and I was enjoying that too much
to be honest if I could get them into a 6-7" group at 25 yards I would be over the moon.
I intend to get out this weekend and smoke the range out.
Registered User
The object of the grease over the ends of the chambers is to prevent flash over and so cause a chain fire. And, to keep the fouling soft and so aid cleaning. The wads that are available commercially, particularly Ox-yoke Wonder wads, are impregnated with lube and so perform the same job. However, using wads is just so much more conveinient.
If using any of the other B/P subsitute, such as Triple 7, wads are prescribed for save operation.
Seating the ball to a specific depth in the chamber is a hotly debated subject! It is argued that this guarantees accuracy. Personally, I think it is a step too far with B/P revolvers and does not yeild the benefits that are touted. It may do so in single shot B/P pistols, but when you consider the variable with revolvers, such as chamber alignment, concentricity of each chamber, the machined depth of each chamber.......
Couple that with the fact that all balls leaving the chambers, enter the forcing cone of the barrel. Yes, with conicals for B/P or cartridge revolvers you want the bullet to enter the forcing cone as true as possible. But we're talking about a ball. It's not going to be knocked of kilter the same way. Likewise, the bearing surface of a ball, compared to a bullet, is a tiny fraction. In short, the bearing surface of a ball is a very thing ring around the circumferance.
As for inert fillers to raise the height of the ball in a chamber, some use semolina and others such as ground rice. When I tried an inert filler, I found it just made the revolver sticky, more than with B/P and it smelled funny!
One of the easiest ways to improve accuracy in a B/P revolver is through the amount of powder you use. What load are you using? I've had a number of .44 and .45 revolvers and I've found that 23 - 25 grains, by volume, of Pyrodex P has always given the best results. This is below the recommended, but more, isn't always best........
Registered User
Tried over ball lube in my early BP days and found it just made the most 'orrible mess.
My load now is 15g Triple 7 FFFG followed by filler (semolina - 9mm case full) then plain felt wad and finally .454 ball. Revolver is Pietta Remmy .44.
Some venues insist on a dollop of grease over the ball 'to gaurd against chain fires'. Can't see a chain fire from the front end happening with a load similar to mine though. No spark could possibly get past the ball, then wad, then filler to reach the powder!
A chain fire from the back end, as a result of a cap dropping off, is more likely. The one and only chain fire (1 extra cylinder went off) I've ever seen was a result of this.
Finally, the sole purpose of filler is to bring the ball nearer the front of the cylinder to minimise 'jump' to the barrel throat. To be honest I haven't noticed a great improvement in accuracy (some though) when using filler but there is a noticeable improvement in consistency - less 'fliers'.
I shoot and I vote
If you use triple 7 you can just lube your balls with Alox. Hodgdons recommend just a lubed wad with no grease.
Can't use grease on my range anyway. We fire down tubes (sewage pipes) and there was a problem with the grease/waxy stuff, unburned powder coating the walls. Till one day it ignited sending a glorious looking ball of fire down the tube.
“If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane
Banned
cheers guys much info to think about and digest
was thinking about trying less powder, will give it a go
currently on 26grains of I beleive its pyrodex pistol from memory
fancy maybe experimenting with the filler idea, see what happens
Registered User
Just reading everyone's comments with interest, yes as a filler I tried semolina used a second powder flask to add the semolina. I think there is probably a slight improvement in accuracy if you can get the ball closer to the barrel.
I find shooting my 1861 Colt Sheriff (Pietta) it is often more accurate than my target version Remmie. Now this could be down to the fact that this gun just feels right in the hand or as using 18g of Pyrodex P the ball is closer to the barrel - hence less chance of any jump.
I like the Remmie, but for sweetnes in handling the Colt is the winner - Mmmmmh and I only paid £70 for it, the Remmie was £270 ish.
Registered User
Yes, I always use Alox (the 'liquid' stuff). My wads are plain though (no lube) but I'm going to give "wonder wads" a try when I next buy some.Originally Posted by Smokeless Coal;2839452
[b
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
That must have been a sight, Smokeless. Well, not really smokeless.
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Great thread you started here, Tony!
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
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