Brass frame or Steel frame

[LONG REACH]

Hiya Folks, I've recently become interested in muzzle loader shooting and theres something that's been bothering me. There seems to be a definate division between those who shoot brass framed revolvers and those who shoot steel, in that the brass shooters say there's nothing wrong with having a brass frame and the steel shooters, say they're not as safe as having a steel frame. I agree that steel is stronger than brass, but surely, the pistol frame must be made to a standard, where it will be safe to shoot throughout the life of the pistol, shouldn't it ???
Or is it a case of, "I've got a steel framed pistol and you only have a cheap brass framed one"

Personally I like the look of the brass frame, but some of the comments I've read on various web sites have got me thinking about the safety aspect of shooting one. Plus there's the other question of, one piece frame and open frame, ie, Remmington & Colt, can anyone enlighten me of any differences in accuracy and parts longevity etc.

This muzzle loading business is very confusing, but VERY interesting and I'm off for my 1st visit to a club near where I live (thanks to harricook and others for pointing me in the right direction ) tomorrow to have a look around and see about joining (and hopefully get to shoot a few rounds from an ML pistol)

Any help with my questions will be very much appreciated !!!

All the best
Baz

[john paul]

The general opinion is that the brass framed pistols are weaker as you say, likely after use it will loosen more than a steel/stainless i.e. cylinder I would suspect won't lock up as tight. However probably if you use a light load a brass framed pistol will be OK for a fair amount of use.
Although I like many of the brass models I have left them alone and opted for steel Colt 1861 and a stainless Remmie.
If you like a certain model with a brass frame go for it and just be careful with your loads. Note brass framed pistols s/hand seem to lose their value faster than a steel model.
If you want accuracy for your first B/P pistol I would go for a target version i.e. Remington 58 with target sights and ideally in stainless. You may find with the Colt clones and Remmie clones without the sights you will have to aim off either left or right - not a problem once your used to it. I was lucky with my Colt its spot on, I was advised to go for stainless and target sights, and glad I did. The stainless will always look good and hold its value.
I've seen lots of people buy a b/p pistol eg. Colt shoot it for a few weeks and get frustrated with the accuracy and sell it.
Well that's my ramble over..

[LONG REACH]

Hi JP, thank you for your reply, it seems to confirm what I've read on various sites, but it's nice to hear it first hand . I was thinking of getting (once I get my FAC) a .36 Colt Navy and a .44 Remmington New Model Army, mainly because I like the look of them (I also like the Walker Colt,but can't afford the gym membership to build up the muscles I would need to hold and shoot it )
I'm not really bothered about having a target model with adjustable sights, as I'm quite used to aiming off, as a Browning 9mm Hi Power hasn't got adjustable sights and I used one quite a lot while doing my time in the Army
and anyway, I like a challenge
There is a hell of a lot of stuff you need to learn to shoot muzzle loaders, I never realised it was so involved, which I must admit I would enjoy more. As when I was shooting with cartridge pistols, everything was very clinical, ie, load your cartridges into the cylinder, or magazine, shoot at your targets, (get laughed at by your mates and scowled at by the range officer )
Pick up your brass, give your weapon a quick pull through and put it away in the armoury. With ML's, there's so much more to do, which suits me down to the ground
I hope everything turns out OK tomorrow, when we go for our 1st visit to the club, then it's the usual 6 month probation, then apply for my FAC.

Thanks again JP, it was very helpful. I doubt if I would be shooting heavy loads anyway, as age and 14 yrs in the Army are taking their toll on my poor old bod

p.s. I will probably go for steel frames, just to be on the safe side and in case I fancy making lots of noise & smoke !!!

All the best
Baz

[tony1975]

my first (and current) BP revolver is a pietta remmy 1858 new model army, in stainless with target sights, in my opinion its the perfect starter

there are many ways that you can make things easier and almost clinical when shooting BP

I actually enjoy the stripping and cleaning part, but its not as bad as I expected

I have loads of plastic phialls that fit perfectly into the cylinders, fill the phialls at home with desired load, so with the cylinder out I invert and push the phiall into the chamber, once all 6 are in place remove 1 at a time and fit the fibre wad, the wad helps prevent any loss of powder if you knock the chamber over, not its only use

doing it this way I have avoided leaving a chamber empty, ( I have seen far more experienced people than me do this)

its great fun and I enjoy it as Im crap at it and that annoys me, so pushing me to learn better techniques and practice more

[Jim McArthur]

my first (and current) BP revolver is a pietta remmy 1858 new model army, in stainless with target sights, in my opinion its the perfect starter

there are many ways that you can make things easier and almost clinical when shooting BP

I actually enjoy the stripping and cleaning part, but its not as bad as I expected

I have loads of plastic phialls that fit perfectly into the cylinders, fill the phialls at home with desired load, so with the cylinder out I invert and push the phiall into the chamber, once all 6 are in place remove 1 at a time and fit the fibre wad, the wad helps prevent any loss of powder if you knock the chamber over, not its only use

doing it this way I have avoided leaving a chamber empty, ( I have seen far more experienced people than me do this)

its great fun and I enjoy it as Im crap at it and that annoys me, so pushing me to learn better techniques and practice more

I have a second-hand Uberti stainless Remington 1858 on order, Tony.

Jim

[john paul]

I was in the same boat a few years ago and thought there seemed a lot to B/P pistol shooting, however once you get yourself a pistol and start shooting it and experimenting i.e; making your own wads, concoctions to coat the wads, using TREX over the balls, measuring out your powder by weight rather than volume, using a filler eg semolina etc... Really straightforward HONEST. You'll find you will want to experiment and soon find what works best for you.
Oh get yourself a mould and make your own balls, you soon get back your initial payout. Mould about £19, laddle £3, melting pot about £5 and a camping stove.
If you can have a go of a Sheriff version of the Navy you will find it points well and feels more like a conventional pistol. My 61 Navy .36 is the Sheriff version and its very sweet to shoot.

[LONG REACH]

Thanks for the replies fella's, I especially like all of the little tips etc. I had read about the use of semolina, ground rice and corn etc, being used as a spacer to bring the ball forward and the Trex, to seal the end of each chamber.
I've just been on the HODGDON website getting info on Pyrodex and 777, very good site, with loads of info, as in, I didn't know you could get Pyrodex pellets for pistols (.44 cal), that would make loading quicker and easier
Thanks again guy's, I really appreciate all of these little pearls of wisdom, when added together,makes very interesting reading.

JP, I have already priced up all of the gear needed for making my own ammunition. By the way, has anyone tried connical rounds, instead of plain balls ?

All the best
Baz

[Smokeless Coal]

Steel is gonna last longer than brass which get very sloppy in a short time.

I use conicals most of the time, it saves using a wad and the risk of flashover must be a lot less. Saying that I find balls are a lot more accurate, most of my shooting is just for the grin factor. When I am having an accurate shooting session the ball wins hands down.

Simplest load is 777 and a conical prelubed with alox. Fussier load is 777 precision measured, filler plus a lubed wad and a ball (matched weights) again with alox.

[Gunny]

Tried BP pistol for the first time a couple of weeks ago simply because my son fancied it.

My initial impression of BP shooters was of bearded, sandal clad vegetable knitters, and the men were much the same!

I've now totally changed my opinion because of the fantastic GRRRRIINNNN factor

Pistol shooting is a different discipline to rifles but BP pistols are such a way of life. Some club members have shot everything but now only shoot BP. It's probably the careful, measured pace of loading, aiming and shooting which is different to any other shooting.

Hope you enjoy it (I do) but be careful, it can become addictive.

I'm quite used to aiming off, as a Browning 9mm Hi Power hasn't got adjustable sights
Baz

The sights cannot be adjusted but aim is adjusted by interchangeable/ moveable foresights.

Have fun shooting.

[LONG REACH]

Thanks for the reply Gunny, I do agree with you about it being a way of life. I think that's why I wanted to do it, because there's so much involvement. It's not just a case of chucking 6 cartridges in the cylinder and letting rip, each part of the reloading process, has it's own little quirks and techniques, which everyone seems to do the same, but in their own way, so it seems, you will never finish learning, as long as something can be done differently (as long as it suits the way you do things )

All the best
Baz

[tony1975]

Baz, you can still buy it even if you not got your ticket, if you like it and to me it sounds like a bargain, then have a word with local RFD, see if he will store it for you, that way matey gets the sale and can clear the slot on his ticket, and as soon as your ticket arrives you got a gun ready to go.

[Simon G]

Personally I like the look of the brass frame, but some of the comments I've read on various web sites have got me thinking about the safety aspect of shooting one.

Baz,

There are no worries with regard to safety as far as a "brass" framed B/P revolver are concerned. Nor are there any worries about longevity. We have a brass Pietta .36 Colt Navy as one of the club guns. It's been with the club, after being bought second hand, for about 20 years. Certainly since the handgun ban, it's been used every week!

The "brass" used in the frames are not brass in the true sense, but an alloy which gives the appearance of such. It really is a moot point, much reminiscent of the argument concerning steel/alloy frames on semi autos or steel/alloy frames v polymer frames, ack in the 80's.

Even Henry, Rossi and Uberti are making "brass" framed rifles in some pretty potent cartridges.....

You go for what floats your boat! Shooting is about enjoyment!

[LONG REACH]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the reply. Well I did it for the 1st time today and I'm hooked, I can't think of any aspect of BP shooting that I don't like, even the cleaning, I find enjoyable, if not therapeutic
And yes after speaking to a number of people at the club about the brass v Steel frame, they all say the same as you have said, so as you say, "no worries"

p.s. Just got to serve my probationary period, then go for the FAC, then see what toys are out there . Although saying that, the club sec, has got a Uberti .44 cal Remington NMA, which he said he would let go for £60.00. Hmmm, I wonder if he will wait 6 months

All the best

Baz