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Thread: Responsibility for rifles sold

  1. #1
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    Responsibility for rifles sold

    A general question to all

    When selling a rifle if it is shooting consistantly over the 12ft lbs limit and by consistanlly i mean every other shot should this have been disclosed to a potential buyer.

    Also if a rifle was sold and found to be immediately faulty to the point of needing a new regulator and postage etc who should take responsibility for this the buyer, seller or fairly split between the two.

  2. #2
    R30Jeff is offline Not Smarter Than The Average Bear
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    When selling a rifle if it is shooting consistantly over the 12ft lbs limit and by consistanlly i mean every other shot should this have been disclosed to a potential buyer.
    If they knew, then yes. Alot might not know, either because of not having a chrono or because erm can't think of any other.



    Also if a rifle was sold and found to be immediately faulty to the point of needing a new regulator and postage etc who should take responsibility for this the buyer, seller or fairly split between the two.
    Again, if they were aware. Remeber there are a lot of people who just shoot now and then and don't have much technical know how.

    Just playing devils advecate (sp) what ever happened to "buyer beware". If you can be sorted amicably (sp) then give it a go.

  3. #3
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    Hi Mate

    Am not sure on both counts wether they knew or not but have suggested we split the 150.00 bill between us but they are not interested there response was that it was fine before i brought it.

    In an email since the transaction they stated they had never chronoed the rifle although did think it was shooting very fast.

  4. #4
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    The basic principle is buyer beware but as there is a legal requirement to maintain the rifle within the legal limit, then it seems unreasonable that the original vendor did not A, check the rifles energy level to ensure it was legal during the period of his/her ownership and B. did not take this action prior to selling it.

    Purely by chance, I tested my S200 last night over a 55 shot string. When I last set her up, it was peaking at approx. 11,5 lbs energy. When I checked it last night it had dropped 1 ft pound !!

    As a result, it has been tweaked and is back to 11,5. IK will testing it the next time I shoot as they have a habit of settling down over a few days.

    Access to a chrono is not that difficult even if it means taking it to a shop or joining a club. Combro produce small portable and very cheap and accurate chrono's though I hear they are rarer than rocking horse droppings at the moment ?

    You say that it is exceeding the legal limit every other shot but you dont say what the average is. If it is running at 11.99 ftlbs then it is clearly too close for any reasonable allowance due to pellet weight fit temperature etc...

    However, you mention that the reg has to be replaced. Difficult one to answer as the previous owner didnt seem to be too aware as to what his equipment was doing.

    Morally, I would offer to meet you half way but then again I wouldnt have been ignorant of my rifles performance in the first place.

    You may have some leverage as he sold you a rifle that was exceeding the legal limit and therefore may have breached the law IRO firearms legislation and possibly IRO consumer legislation.

    Suggest you contact your insurer as they often have a legal advice line as part of their standard policy cover, and most brokers offer legal protection so you will get advice and they will issue proceedings in your name should the case warrant it.

    You could also make the sale conditional on the rifle being legal and in the condition it was described. Ask if it has been serviced - this may give you an insight as to the attitude of the owner etc...

    Steyr
    In a battle of wits I refuse to engage with an unarmed person.
    To one shot one kill, you need to seek the S. Kill only comes from Skill

  5. #5
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    Was it a trader or a private sale? Trader can include an individual who buys and sells.

  6. #6
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    IF A PRIVATE SALE.
    If this person has no morals you are in reality screwed.
    If he mis-described the item you are entitled to your money back,but the only way to enforce this (legally ) would be through the small claims court.
    Personally I wouldn't bother asking "Plod" to come round and collect your "Firearm",how can you prove you didn't modify it?
    Make sure of your facts and then "Name & Shame"is in my opinion your only real recourse.
    Obviously other people with a more "Vigilante" approach will advise a different course.
    As so well expressed by the previous poster,it is late,and I could be talking Bo////ks.
    But I'd bet a £ to pinch of Japanese S//t that Trading standards won't want to know.

  7. #7
    RochdaleLad Guest
    edit: nm.

  8. #8
    draftsmann Guest
    Simjim is correct. The Sale of Goods Act only covers sales made in the course of a business.

    Adrian

  9. #9
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    Access to a chrono is a real bugbear for me, no gunshops (that I know of) in Powys, and as has been said - "rarer than rocking horse droppings".
    I've been following the C625 saga and will buy one as soon as they become available, but untill that time I'm stuffed for chrono-ing my own gun, not that it has been tweaked as it was bought new - but I'm just not 100% as to what its poking out.

    Ogri the trog
    Improvise, Adapt & Overcome

  10. #10
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    Thanks EV2 i was wondering wether to air views on here or not and i hope its not taken to be airing dirty washing.

    The rifle EV2 is refering to was my Ripley AR5s which i bought from Kieth alias "Monty" of Team Ripley off another AirgunBBS by the name of "airmonsta", i bought it in good faith from him who informed me it was set at 11.5ftlbs and to use daystate pellets, as the rifle needed so much work on the stock and a bolt to secure it toghether i didnt shoot it exept towards the end of the refinishing and then only inside, late at night at my work, it was infact giving me sub half inch groups at 45yds lying prone, i had no reason to suspect that it was shooting over the limit so i did not get it cronographed, i also informed EV2 that it seemed to shoot fast compared to my AA410 but thats been crono'd at 10.5 ftlbs at two HFT shoots so i asumed that was why and the fact the the riper is a quality piece of kit so it must shoot beter than that.
    EV2 was given every chance when he and his friend shot and tried the rifle out at my club (his friend has the same model of rifle) both were impresed with and EV2 bought it, telling me he would now have to sell his to fund this purchase.
    I textd him after the weekend to see if he enjoyed shooting it and he replied that he hadnt had much time to shoot it but would be doing so later that week, i had an email from him on how to adjust the power setings on the rifle and recomended him to Ripley.
    Now he tells me that it needs all this work on it.
    The rifle was to the best of my knowledge legal and in perfect working order when sold to EV2.
    I have no idea if EV2 has played with the regulator or not, i know that as it was shoting so well for me, i left well alone, i can strip a springer easily but pnumatics i leave to the profesionals.
    I do not have spare funds to give away as i had to sell it to fund family crisis and would still own it otherwise.
    I have all the comunications from EV2 saved so if any one is realy interested they can have copies and draw their own conclusions.
    I am not a trader just a skint individual trying to make ends meet like every one else.
    aquarius11
    One Shot = One Kill

  11. #11
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    Sounds to me like it needs a simple adjustment not £150 worth of work. Just how inconsistent is it?
    Rgds,
    Dave.
    SkyDrive, Pics, manuals & more.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Taff Williams
    Access to a chrono is a real bugbear for me, no gunshops (that I know of) in Powys, and as has been said - "rarer than rocking horse droppings".
    I've been following the C625 saga and will buy one as soon as they become available, but untill that time I'm stuffed for chrono-ing my own gun, not that it has been tweaked as it was bought new - but I'm just not 100% as to what its poking out.

    Ogri the trog
    Use the no chrono option in chairgun, that will give you an idea of the power your gun is doing.

  13. #13
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    Andyman,
    Cheers, I'll give it a go, but how accurate will it be if my pellet drop measurements are even a few millimeters out?
    I've tried comparing pellet drops to the trajectory in Chairgun and it seems to fit the 11.5 figure but until I get a chrono, the element of doubt persists.

    Thanks anyway

    Ogri the trog
    Improvise, Adapt & Overcome

  14. #14
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    EV2 said that the power adjuster makes no difference nor a chang of pellets make a difference it still gives a reading of, 775,805,775,805,775,805 etc, etc.
    aquarius11
    One Shot = One Kill

  15. #15
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    Not just a simple adjustment then, send it back to Ripley and foot half the bill if EV2 is prepared to do so. I think he is entitled to a full refund if the matter can't be settled amicably.
    Last edited by Davestate; 27-05-2004 at 12:29 PM.
    Rgds,
    Dave.
    SkyDrive, Pics, manuals & more.

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