Responsibility for rifles sold

[Baldie]

2p's worth.

When I was young (last year) I bought a Rapid off a BBS member who demonstrated using a chrono that it was under 12 ft/lbs. I found out the next day when I read the user instructions that he'd put the wrong pellet weight in, and when that was changed, the rifle 'allegedly' ran 'warm'.

Fortunately for me, it wasn't an expensive adjustment and it got done within 3 hours of me knowing the real power of the rifle. [Thanks Ben.]

The chap I bought the rifle off had already said his goodbyes to the BBS, and had left airgunning already. I could afford the £15 repair anyway. No point in taking the issue further.

I'd like to ask aquarius11 what he would have done if he had chrono'd the rifle before the sale? If nothing then, I'd recommend doing nothing now (and take the flak for selling a faulty rifle).

If you would have had it repaired, (as everyone here would expect) then someone offering to go half's on the cost, is actually saving you some money, so why wouldn't you take up the offer of the 50% contribution?

I was told by a fellow BBS member today that I seem to be seen on the BBS as a bit of a goody-two-shoes during a F-2-F I had with him. So maybe I opt for the 'ideal' solution......

Which is.....

If I had sold a rifle that was subsequently found to be (allegedly) running warm, I would want to buy it back for my peace of mind and my reputation. It seems the fault is nothing to do with anyone 'adjusting in' the error.

If I then had the offer of someone who was willing to go half's on the cost of repair, I'd be very very happy. Not least because I might not get another buyer, second time around.

[Sid]

Who gives a flying f*** anyway. This thread is so complicated that I can't work out exactly who is complaining about what. Stop whining for gods sake, whoever you are

[Slim]

Baldie,your reply does you credit,and personally I would have the dam thing back,but,
There is a suggestion of "Tinkering" and I don't see that a private sale should carry the responsibility of,Timing,re-conditioning and then guaranteeing a 2nd. hand product,inspected by the buyer and sold for an agreed price.
Somewhere back in the thread someone asked for comments so I'll take that as an excuse for stirring it

[Baldie]

slimjim

There is a suggestion of "Tinkering"

You can 'tinker' with a faulty regulator?

My comments were made in the understanding this flip/flop chrono result was due to a faulty regulator, and EV2's request about adjustment was an initial query about turning down the power (which would have been the 'proper' thing to do if the rifle was consistent but a bit 'overpowered' - allegedly).

Thanks for the 'credit'. I have to say I only found out about this 'goodie' impression after I confided why it is I have a less than shiny halo....

[Slim]

The bit that made me wonder was the first E.Mail being about how to adjust power,
This is just my opinion,and as I know neither party it is pure supposition,but couldn't a botched attempt to adjust power do a reg. in?
I don't really know but if I was looking at a refund it would make me think

[Baldie]

but couldn't a botched attempt to adjust power do a reg. in?

Only if the allen key looked a lot like a hammer.

[Sid]

How about this matter is resolved by a duel ?

I'm sure we can find the relevant protocols ( who has to slap who with a glove and demand satisfaction, the proper exchange of visiting cards, choice of seconds, which weapons would be appropriate )

Is "Duelling" considered a good reason for owning a black powder pistol on an FAC ? if not the legal aspects could be a bit sticky and it'll need to be done with swords instead

[Slim]

A hammer or Allen key can be used to Devastating results,
I know
I can't see this pair agreeing to protocols,
the can't even sort out who F///ed the rifle up in the first place

[aquarius11]

Baldie,
if i had realised that it was over the limit, (which would have been at the June HFT comp as your rifle is crono'd as part of the comp), then i would have got it fixed but it would also have the P Wilson stock on it that i orderd then canceld due to previous explinations, if i needed to sell it later on then i would have asked more for it than i did, BUT THIS IS AN "IF" SITUATION.
as it happens i had loads of offers to buy.
Once again i sold the rifle as tried and seen and accepted by

[I. J.]

Originally posted by Sid
How about this matter is resolved by a duel ?

Is "Duelling" considered a good reason for owning a black powder pistol on an FAC ? if not the legal aspects could be a bit sticky and it'll need to be done with swords instead

Or blank firerers. Less messy but the Noise Abatement Society may get involved.

[aquarius11]

Baldie,
if i had realised that it was over the limit, (which would have been at the June HFT comp as evrey rifle is crono'd as part of the comp), then i would have got it fixed but it would also have the P Wilson stock on it that i orderd then canceld due to previous explinations, if i needed to sell it later on then i would have asked more for it than i did, BUT THIS IS QNLY AN "IF" SITUATION.

To other replies,

As it happens i had loads of offers to buy at the price advertised which was cheap compared to some of the others selling AR5s 's
EV2 asked for first refusal and it was given.

Once again i sold the rifle as tried and seen and accepted by EV2 without any guarantee given, implied or offerd and to the best of my knowledge at LEGAL power setting.

The rifle was taken away and i have no idea of what its been through.

aquarius11

[Baldie]

Originally posted by aquarius11
Baldie,

Once again i sold the rifle as tried and seen and accepted by EV2 without any guarantee given, implied or offerd and to the best of my knowledge at LEGAL power setting.

The rifle was taken away and i have no idea of what its been through.

aquarius11

Don't think the issue here is the measured power. It's the flakey regulator. Can't see myself (subject to being informed to the contrary) how someone can do this through mal-adjustment (and with a 'handle' like EV2 [obviously an anorak shooter] is he going to use the wrong method anyway)?

Inspection at Ripley will confirm either way. Regardless, you are saying as far as you are concerned, it's "sold-as-seen" and that's your legal perogative.

At least two of the 'senior' members here have said they think 50:50 is fair. Some newer members have said the same. Don't think I've seen one that says "Tough luck EV2 get on with it..." ***

I've been known to show interest in £800 rifles, and bought one yesterday. Don't think I'll ever be looking to buy anything from your direction though. Doubt I'll be the only one either.

After all, a cynic might think you sold the rifle knowing it would fail the test at the HFT in June. Not that the thought entered my head, but then I always think the best of everyone anyway.





***
oops! From DJP:

I don't know the full ins and outs of it but from the above I'd say it's really the buyers problem - he obviously thought it was OK when he tried it out.

[EV2]

Adrian

Just to finally clarify for you a few points

You cannot abdicate responsibility by trying to imply that i altered the gun and saying "you have no idea what the gun has been through".

The rifle has not been adjusted in any way well respected FT shooters within my club will verify this.

I did think that maybe adjusting the power would cure the problem hence my comment to you, but was informed by people far better qualified than me that the string of shots was far to extreme to be just a power adjustment cure, this was confirmed by Ripley.

You clearly have no conscience with regards to items that you sell, you sold a faulty rifle that was of illegal power.

I will not urge people not to deal with you in future as they will make there own minds up on that. When we met i believed you to be a genuine honest man with whoom i was pleased to be dealing with, I was wrong.

But You can rest easy as it is clear that you will not take any responsibility for this so i will pay to have the problem put right myself.

I take consolation in the fact of knowing that what goes around comes around and you still have yours to come.

Thanks to all for there views on this thread i have enjoyed reading them all, but would advise all that taking a chrono when buying a rifle is a must.

Jeff

[roblade]

just my tuppence worth on this subject.

i have sold a couple of things on here, and no matter how desperatly i have wanted the money, i have never spent a penny of it until the buyer has contacted me saying he is happy with item bought. this way should there be any problems at all i would offer full refund (with buyer paying return postage).

but aquarius i would sujest you make some form of payment, even if not imidiatly, as said repairs cant be undertaken until june, even if its only a token payment.

if we cant be seen to be supporting each other why should those outside our sport support us?

is this showing a united front?

we are mostly all grwon ups on here and without tittle tattling, good faith is the foundation of good relations.

but in your defence, ev2 you walked away from the deal having shot the rifle, and been given a fair chance to see how it was shooting. I would have thought if there were any doubts at all that should have been the time to walk away. had this been a unseen deal i would have been behind you 100% but given the fact that you had hands on experiance with the rifle prior to purchase, i would be more inclined to be on the side of aquarius on this.

one question though was power level discused prior to viewing? did you ask if there was a chronograph availible? did you have one you could have borrowed?

but final word would be aquarius show some good faith and try to offer the best you can

hope you all get sorted

all the best

ROB

[Sid]

Originally posted by Baldie

At least two of the 'senior' members here have said they think 50:50 is fair.

The rifle shall be divided in half and one part given unto EV2 while the other part shall be given unto Aquarius.

I have spoken