Support for .22LR Pistol Shooting - 2012

[south]

Dear All

I am attaching two letters I have today sent to MPs and Cllrs - Please feel free to use/circulate if you think it will do any good. There has been issued today a Government response to the recent epetition which will be used a the stock response.

If you think my letters are any good then bump the thread to keep it at the top.

You can get details of your MP etc at www.WriteToThem.com

Here are my letters:-




Labour MP

I am writing in relation to the forthcoming Olympics in 2012 and issues to do with the shooting disciplines.

I have been a member of club and have been actively involved in competitive target shooting for over 20 years. During the time I have been involved in the sport there has been legislative change primarily following instances of appalling crimes (Hungerford and Dunblane) carried out by persons in legal possession of Registered firearms.

Such crimes, as with any violent offence, are horrific and sickening and I am not writing rehearsing arguments as to the appropriateness of the legislation in the first place. I am raising issues to do with the practical effect and application of the current legislation, particularly in the context of the 2012 Olympic Games.

The Olympic shooting disciplines have two events which are of significance and in which we have the potential to challenge at the top level, 25m Rapid Fire and 50m Free Pistol. These are both shot to ISSF standards and require the use of .22 LR calibre pistols. As an example, Mick Gault (a pistol shooter) is England's most successful commonwealth games competitor. He used to compete in .22 LR pistol events.

There are other team members who, in my opinion, have the ability to challenge at the top level but will not have the opportunity as they are not permitted to hold or use such pistols in the UK.

Some have chosen to train abroad but, as you can imagine, this is totally cost prohibitive to all but a very few, and in any event is totally inappropriate preparation for a "Blue Riband" event such as the 2012 Olympics particularly given that this is one in which we will be hosting the games. Competitors will have major problems such as access to regular training and squad coaches by any other method other than UK based training.

If you are not aware, The Conservative party brought in legislation after Dunblane, banning larger calibre centre fire pistols and allowing the possession of .22 LR pistols but under very strict control. Labour then came to power and then introduced an amendment (Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997) which banned the possession of .22 LR pistols and our ability to compete in these disciplines. My understanding is that an outright ban on all .22LR pistols was not recommended by Lord Cullen (Cullen enquiry).

This puts us at an immediate disadvantage for the 2012 Games in that we will be excluded from all .22 LR calibre pistol disciplines.

If our squad is to be allowed to compete please provide your clarification as to how the team will train in the meantime so that they will not be disadvantaged.

First, I assume that the usual shooting disciplines will be included and if so confirm how and why competitors from other countries will be permitted to use pistols. Please confirm the reason, if distinction is to be made between UK and non-national competitors, for such distinction.

Second, please confirm whether you would give your support to some form of legislation change or relaxation to allow the UK to compete in these disciplines (25m Rapid Fire and 50m Free Pistol etc).

Third, my further concern is that, as my understanding is, and I hope that I am wrong, there is proposal for a purpose built shooting centre to be constructed at a cost of in the region of £18-20 million (maybe more) but the facility will then be pulled down after the games. Please correct me if I am wrong. If I am not wrong in my understanding please explain how this represents a good use of taxpayers money? We already have world class facilities at the National Centre at Bisley!

I wait anxiously for your reply. Change needs to happen urgently if the UK Pistol squad are to have any chance of competing in .22LR disciplines in the forthcoming Games.

Yours etc




Local Cllr

I am writing in relation to the forthcoming Olympics in 2012 and issues to do with the shooting disciplines.

I have been a member of club and have been actively involved in competitive target shooting for over 20 years. During the time I have been involved in the sport there has been legislative change primarily following instances of appalling crimes (Hungerford and Dunblane) carried out by persons in legal possession of Registered firearms.

Such crimes, as with any violent offence, are horrific and sickening and I am not writing rehearsing arguments as to the appropriateness of the legislation in the first place. I am raising issues to do with the practical effect and application of the current legislation, particularly in the context of the 2012 Olympic Games.

The Olympic shooting disciplines have two events which are of significance and in which we have the potential to challenge at the top level, 25m Rapid Fire and 50m Free Pistol. These are both shot to ISSF standards and require the use of .22 LR calibre pistols. As an example, Mick Gault (a pistol shooter) is England's most successful commonwealth games competitor. He used to compete in .22 LR pistol events.

There are other team members who, in my opinion, have the ability to challenge at the top level but will not have the opportunity as they are not permitted to hold or use such pistols in the UK.

Some have chosen to train abroad but, as you can imagine, this is totally cost prohibitive to all but a very few, and in any event is totally inappropriate preparation for a "Blue Riband" event such as the 2012 Olympics particularly given that this is one in which we will be hosting the games. Competitors will have major problems such as access to regular training and squad coaches by any other method other than UK based training.

If you are not aware, The Conservative party brought in legislation after Dunblane, banning larger calibre centre fire pistols and allowing the possession of .22 LR pistols but under very strict control. Labour then came to power and then introduced an amendment (Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997) which banned the possession of .22 LR pistols outright and our ability to compete in these disciplines. My understanding is that an outright ban on all .22LR pistols was not recommended by Lord Cullen (Cullen enquiry).

This puts us at an immediate disadvantage for the 2012 Games in that we will be excluded from all .22 LR calibre pistol disciplines.

I have written to (replace with labour mp written to) for clarification on whether and how our squad shooters may be permitted to compete and I await a reply. If our squad is to be allowed to compete they will need proper access to squad coaches and the team will train in the meantime so that they will not be disadvantaged.

I am concerned about responses that I have had from the Labour party in the past. Between now and the next Olympics there will be an election. If I vote for your party at the next election and you are voted into power will you promise to support the repeal of the No2 Amendment to the Firearms Act 1997? This will restore .22LR pistols as the Conservative party had intended before the Labour party were voted in, and will enable us to have viable Olympic and Commonwealth Games Pistol teams who able to train in this country.

My further concern is that, as my understanding is, and I hope that I am wrong, there is proposal for a purpose built shooting centre to be constructed at a cost of in the region of £18-20 million (maybe more) but the facility will then be pulled down after the games. I may be wrong and correct me if I am. If I am not wrong in my understanding please would you do all you can to raise questions in the House of Commons as to this and whether this represents a good use of taxpayers money? We already have world class facilities at the National Centre at Bisley but the Labour party are choosing not to use them! If you are not able to help would you please refer me to the person in your party who can assist.

I wait anxiously for your reply. Change needs to happen urgently if the UK Pistol squad are to have any chance of competing in .22LR disciplines in the forthcoming Games.

Yours etc






Please lobby your MP and anyone else you can thnk of.

I hope my letters are of some help.

Regards

South

[Hemmers]

Good stuff, keeps the issues alive. Without wanting to sound all doom and gloom, here is what I predict will happen to your MP's letter:

- Forwarded to Tessa Jowell (minister in charge of Olympics)
- They will point out the 50 Section-5 exemptions that have been agreed in principle to allow UK shooters to train in the run up to the games. Of course, they will expire as soon as the last shot is fired, but that will be their way of fobbing off the issue as "sorted".

[south]

I totally agree Hemmers and here is the Governments official response http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page16658

What that dosen't take into account is the fact that target shooting is an on going sport not something turned on and off just for big events (Nationals, International meets, World Champs , Commonwealth etc.). These don't stop when the government feel like it.

Unless we can all train and compete in the same way the squad will dwindle as at the moment it must be heavily reliant on pre-ban pistol shooters. I can't imagine many, if any wanting to now enter the sport from scratch with a discipline which they can't practice.

It also shows a rather perverse perspective from the government of only allowing shooting in relation to specific events. Actually the government
must accept in principle the law is too resrictive (unreasonably restrictive) otherwise they woudn't introduce the exemtions. That adds fuel to the argument that there should be more permanent alteration to the law.

Keep the pressure on. Lobby your MP.

South

[20series]

http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page16658

Please see the above

this was the reply to a previous email petition to the government on this subject. Sadly a predictable and depressing response.

Alan

[Hemmers]

Unless we can all train and compete in the same way the squad will dwindle as at the moment it must be heavily reliant on pre-ban pistol shooters. I can't imagine many, if any wanting to now enter the sport from scratch with a discipline which they can't practice.

The Pony Club do air pistol, and a fair few clubs introduce kids to the sport like this. Unfortunately, there is nothing to progress to (except 50m free pistol with convoluted "Long-Arms"), as opposed to air rifle where you can progress to many different disciplines - target (.22 and fullbore), practical rifle, gallery rifle, etc, etc. The result is that there is some input, but not nearly enough. Kids take it up and join the GB Juniors. There is little or no grassroots basis below that.

[honda chris]

hi south good luck and pursue it.
i have tried this i have replys from from a couple of MP's and seb coe and i had no joy.
i have one other route and that is i have applied for a licence in the czech rep. once i have secured this i will attemp to gain a european firearms licence and see if i could use a issf class .22rf pistol and my local club, probably get another bollocking again for waisting there time

its a joke if we wen't law abbiding folk i dont doubt i could get a working pistol and ammo for £200 in less that a few hours

makes me mad

i will try my local mp once again also if you need the address for the home office firearms dept. i have it. dont email them that take 5 weeks to reply
regards chris

hemmers thats good!
"Blaming guns for gun crime is like blaming spoons for John Prescott being fat"

[Rutty]

i have one other route and that is i have applied for a licence in the czech rep. once i have secured this i will attemp to gain a european firearms licence and see if i could use a issf class .22rf pistol and my local club,

Chris,

By that I assume you intend to try to use your pistol in the UK on the basis of a European Firearms Pass. If that is the case then don't bother, it has been fully explored and discarded.

Sorry,

Rutty

"A golf course is the wilful misuse of a perfectly good rifle range"

[honda chris]

i did assume someone whould have tried this.
i can try, oh well will just have to use them when i visit

regards chris

[Jim McArthur]

The Pony Club do air pistol, and a fair few clubs introduce kids to the sport like this. Unfortunately, there is nothing to progress to (except 50m free pistol with convoluted "Long-Arms"), as opposed to air rifle where you can progress to many different disciplines - target (.22 and fullbore), practical rifle, gallery rifle, etc, etc.

Black powder pistol?

Jim

[Powderfinger]

The Home Office have confirmed that they will issue pistols to the Olympic squad and their coaches for a limited period before the Olympics and will then confiscate them afterwards. I have met one of the coaches involved. He has no interest in bringing pistols back for all the club shooters in Britain. As far as he is concerned so long as his squad have pistols for the Olympics then he could not give a toss about anyone else. Insulting isn't it?

[honda chris]

well the olympic squad need some new blood and a larger pool of training shooters to choose from and progress.
thay are the british elite shooters?? and how well did they do at the olympics um... let me think........ s*~t
the coaches attitude stinks of. ' Im alright jack, f~*# you!'
stinks, same as the plans for the london shooting venue for the games....

makes me

[maximus otter]

...if we wen't law abbiding folk i dont doubt i could get a working pistol and ammo for £200 in less that a few hours...

“Fire arms can be obtained very cheaply and after they have been used criminals can dispose of them because they are so cheap - a handgun can be bought for about £25 a time.

“Fire arms are so readily available that you can go out on the street, make the necessary enquiries and come up with them. It is that easy.

“The legislation that came in after the Dunblane shooting in 1996 has been utterly and totally ineffective. It was a waste of space."

Albert Kirby, Former Detective Superintendent, Merseyside Police, on the problem of gun crime in Liverpool.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...d-culture.html

maximus otter

[Hemmers]

The Home Office have confirmed that they will issue pistols to the Olympic squad and their coaches for a limited period before the Olympics and will then confiscate them afterwards. I have met one of the coaches involved. He has no interest in bringing pistols back for all the club shooters in Britain. As far as he is concerned so long as his squad have pistols for the Olympics then he could not give a toss about anyone else. Insulting isn't it?

Oh, name names. This goes against my general experiences. Love to know who it is.

[Powderfinger]

Oh, name names. This goes against my general experiences. Love to know who it is.

He officiates at comps that I participate in so it might cause me some problems if I named him. (But, I'll think about it...) If you have met some officials or coaches who don't support the ban then that really is a breath of fresh air.

[Hemmers]

I have to say I don't shoot pistol, but of the rifle shooters I know, many of those who shoot recreationally/semi-competitively had a pistol of some description for plinking. They all want theirs back, and even those competitive shooters I know who never shot pistol at all recognise it as a gross miscarriage of justice, and a step towards threatening their sport.

I find it unbelieveable that he is taking such an attitude when he must know full well that these S5 permits will expire the moment the last British shot is fired. The war is not even vaguely won, even for the elite squad. They have only secured the most minor of victories.