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Thread: Barrel "Conditioning".

  1. #1
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    Barrel "Conditioning".

    I have lost count of the number of times I have seen shooters on a sighting in range with four or five different makes of pellets opened in front of them, taking five or so shots with each type and then saying that their gun is not grouping.

    Whenever a brand of pellets is changed (sometimes even different batches of the same pellet) or if the barrel has been cleaned then the barrel has to be "conditioned" to that particular pellet by putting at least ten shots (I do 20 to be on the safe side) through it before trying a group.

    Different brands of pellets have different percentages of elements in them which affect hardness, coefficient of friction, B.C's etc which all have an effect.

    Just thought a "Heads-Up" on this subject might stop a bit of frustration....

    Neil
    Current airguns:- HW77: FWB 700 Match: Steyr LG110: Steyr LP10: Air Arms HFT500: Weihrauch HW75: PP700W pistol:

  2. #2
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    Yes good idea.
    This can also be applied to .22 rimmy going from HV to Subs and different bullet coatings
    Graham
    Designer of BASC Logo

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by manxteddy View Post
    Yes good idea.
    This can also be applied to .22 rimmy going from HV to Subs and different bullet coatings
    Graham
    That's what prompted me to post this..

    Yesterday I was using CCI subs which were grouping very well in my CZ452, with an air rifle shooter I had just introduced to my firearm club and he had become a probationary member. I then changed to Mini-Mags and the first ten shots were all over the place like a shotgun, shots 11 and 12 closed in on the P.O.A. and the next eight keyholed.

    Neil
    Current airguns:- HW77: FWB 700 Match: Steyr LG110: Steyr LP10: Air Arms HFT500: Weihrauch HW75: PP700W pistol:

  4. #4
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    Had no problems yesterday swapping between JSB Heavy and Defiants - but both were lubed with the same oil

  5. #5
    Acid House is offline Rivi's very own Shrek (and Coronation Street fan).
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    I have a similar problem.

    I normally use mozzies but when on a HFT course the AAs you find in the mud never perform the same.........especially the .22s.......
    Enlightenment is only a click away http://www.rivington-riflemen.org
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  6. #6
    MojoCrow is offline It rubs the lotion on the anarchist ginger tom.....
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    Some barrels are better than others and some are more sensitive than others.

    Some .22 rimfire match rifles have a cycle of cleanliness/dirtiness where the rifle performs at it's best after a certain number rounds have been put through the barrel. The accuracy can start to deteriorate and then it becomes neccessary to clean the barrel and start dirtying it up again until the accuracy returns.

    Some barrels are more sensitive to dirt than others (i understand that .17 HMR, .17 Mach2 & .17 Remington are quite sensitive to barrel fouling and the accuracy can deteriorate after 25-35 shots). I have read about new barrels being 'conditioned' when new by routine of firing and cleaning. This is designed to remove and roughness in the rifling.

    I've had one customer who was being driven nuts by an RWS Excalibre which was stupidly accurate when operating room clean but wouldn't group for toffee once it had the slightest spec of fouling. I suggested he should try lapping the barrel but i heard months later that he sold the rifle.
    Customised AA S400 Carbine
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  7. #7
    MojoCrow is offline It rubs the lotion on the anarchist ginger tom.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acid House View Post
    but when on a HFT course the AAs you find in the mud never perform the same.........especially the .22s.......
    Ahh, you must have found the pellets my Wilkins pouch sacrificed to the Buxted tree god's.
    Customised AA S400 Carbine
    Ros beef, go home! www.buxtedshootingclub.co.uk SiHFT winners 2008 2009 2010

  8. #8
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    I've found my HW100 performs superbly with 16gr Logun Penetrators. I was shooting disc targets out to 40yds with deadly accuracy. I've always used H&N FTT but I really get on well with the Loguns. I haven't grouped it yet but I am going to sunday. I'm pretty sure I'll get good groups but the proof is in the pudding as they say........

    I'll keep you posted

  9. #9
    Hsing-ee is offline I don't have the slightest association with the lingerie industry
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    Is this true of springers as well as PCPs?

  10. #10
    verminhunter is offline The founder of the FAC .25 Big Boys Fan club
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    Quote Originally Posted by u.k.neil View Post
    I have lost count of the number of times I have seen shooters on a sighting in range with four or five different makes of pellets opened in front of them, taking five or so shots with each type and then saying that their gun is not grouping.

    Whenever a brand of pellets is changed (sometimes even different batches of the same pellet) or if the barrel has been cleaned then the barrel has to be "conditioned" to that particular pellet by putting at least ten shots (I do 20 to be on the safe side) through it before trying a group.

    Different brands of pellets have different percentages of elements in them which affect hardness, coefficient of friction, B.C's etc which all have an effect.

    Just thought a "Heads-Up" on this subject might stop a bit of frustration....

    Neil




    Yes you are right neil, what i do and tell shooters if your going to change over a diffrent brand of pellets you must first clean the barrel nicely and properly then run several shots through it and then zero in. the reason to clean the barrel is to remove the tracks left behind from the privious pellet and the new pellet will make and leave its own.

    But neil some mothers do 'ave 'em.
    Last edited by verminhunter; 14-12-2008 at 04:59 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    Is this true of springers as well as PCPs?
    I don't know the definitive answer to this, but it is true for PCP's and rimfires, so there is every chance it is the same for springers.

    Neil
    Current airguns:- HW77: FWB 700 Match: Steyr LG110: Steyr LP10: Air Arms HFT500: Weihrauch HW75: PP700W pistol:

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    Is this true of springers as well as PCPs?
    Definately. I've a couple of highly tuned TXs that shoot like shotguns for the first dozen or so shots after a good barrel clean (which I never normally do for partly this reason), and takes another 20 to get really good again. With some particularly highly polished bores (career) it is far less pronounced. Polishing with JB can also help.
    I'm currently looking for: a .22 / .20 Theoben gasram barrel, at least 10" long (not a fenman barrel). Thanks.

  13. #13
    BeerJam is offline Loser of the 2011 'Barn Door Trophy'.
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    This thread saved me from going mad, thank you Neil.

    I had done some tuning work on my .22 QB78DL and decided to shorten the barrel as well.

    Previously this rifle had shot very respectable groups but after shortening and recrowning the barrel it was all over the place. I skimmed and recrowned three more times , and tried various different pellets, all to no avail.

    Then I read this thread. I thoroughly cleaned the barrel (never, ever having been cleaned before ). I even used the brass wire brush from a Bisley cleaning kit. The filth that came out was shocking. This was followed by pull through patches treated with Youngs "303" oil (just happened to be what the gunshop had in stock).

    Next I put 20 RWS Superdomes through it before trying to zero.

    I could not believe the difference. Better grouping than ever.

    Thanks again Neil for some superb advice.

    Cheers, Mark.
    Proud to be a member of; MVAC and Countryside Alliance
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerJam View Post
    This thread saved me from going mad, thank you Neil.

    I had done some tuning work on my .22 QB78DL and decided to shorten the barrel as well.

    Previously this rifle had shot very respectable groups but after shortening and recrowning the barrel it was all over the place. I skimmed and recrowned three more times , and tried various different pellets, all to no avail.

    Then I read this thread. I thoroughly cleaned the barrel (never, ever having been cleaned before ). I even used the brass wire brush from a Bisley cleaning kit. The filth that came out was shocking. This was followed by pull through patches treated with Youngs "303" oil (just happened to be what the gunshop had in stock).

    Next I put 20 RWS Superdomes through it before trying to zero.

    I could not believe the difference. Better grouping than ever.

    Thanks again Neil for some superb advice.

    Cheers, Mark.

    Glad it helped mate.....

    Neil
    Current airguns:- HW77: FWB 700 Match: Steyr LG110: Steyr LP10: Air Arms HFT500: Weihrauch HW75: PP700W pistol:

  15. #15
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    Bench test - before after cleaning

    I have just, this morning, shot 3 different types of pellets. My Tau7 Co2 .177 pistol was stuck nicely into my workbench.

    Shot outside at 10 metres


    Pellets shot:
    Match Kugeln
    Match Finale
    D/N Gecos, sized 4.51 & unsized (the unsized groups have probably done artificially well, as I didn't pick up one that needed a real thumb in, like they often do.

    I shot one sort, shot the next etc without cleaning. Then I went thru them all again, cleaning the barrel just with a brass brush, between each sort.
    The results speak from themselves!

    By the way, I know you might think I need to shoot hundreds more here, to be scientific, but there's definately a pattern and I did shoot several sets of each, before and after, which I didn't include as they were pretty similar results - call this collection a summary.

    THANKS NEIL

    Any comments gang?
    Linnet
    Last edited by Linnet67; 17-01-2009 at 03:36 PM. Reason: spelling!
    My Guns: a Walther LP200;& a Weihrauch HW40PCA

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