Registered User
Hi,
Trying to revive two old Webleys:
1-Osprey .22
2-Victor .22
Degreased and rebuilt both.
Have replaced spring on Osprey with new one from Chambers. Metal piston rings seemed to be okay. Tap loader seems well aligned. Only doing about 6ft pounds. Was hoping for closer to 10.
Have replaced spring and piston ring on Victor. Breech seal seems okay. Barely doing 1.5 foot pounds!!!?? Barrel seems slightly mis-aligned on closing breech - moves up slightly on firing. Was hoping for more like 10/11 foot pounds...
Any ideas as to why these rifle's power is so dissapointing despite new springs? Re-lubed springs with moly grease. Tried degreasing Osprey's spring as well after poor power as I know not meant to grease FWB 300s spring which also uses metal piston rings...didn't make much difference.
Any tips would be well appreciated, cheers!
George.
Registered User
hi there, dont know about the osprey but i do have a webley excel thats doing about 11ft i think the victor is near as damit the same gun it may be that your not getting a tight airseal with the piston seal or breech seal or it may be that the port hole has been inlarged by some one else dose the rifle sound harsh when u fire it, put a piece of paper over the breech then fire the rifle see if it flys up in the air.Originally Posted by gahowson
atb
Last edited by muzzle; 12-11-2008 at 06:29 AM.
Registered User
Re: the Victor, I have heard that the spring behind the barrel latch (the cylindrical wedge that holds the breech shut) can get old and tired, this results in the barrel jumping about on firing, poor seal and low power.
Registered User
This may not help, but with the old Webley Senior pistols which had metal piston rings, the recommendation from Webley was to oil them regularly through the port on top of the cylinder.
Life is to be enjoyed, not endured.
Retired Mod & Airgun Anorak Extraordinaire
Had many an Osprey and the best you can get them up to realistically is around the 10.5ft.lb mark (max), and as the Victor was/is a junior rifle, it does not have enough internal swept volume to offer more than 7ft.lb max ... Can't figure why you are getting such low readings however ... Could the breech seal be a bad fit or have become work hardened on the Victor, and has the tap on the Osprey developed an air leak? (hope this helps). Atb: G.
_______________________________________________
Done my bit for the BBS: http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....-being-a-mod-… now I’m a game-keeper turned poacher.
Mushroom Man
I have a Victor in .177 and I would expect near 9 ft lbs, although it is a long time since I tsted mine. I believe the Victor was basically a Vulcan without the safety catch and, possibly, a slightly weaker spring.
As you have replaced all the obvious parts (breech seal, piston washer, spring) then it is obvious that air must be going somewhere else.
Maybe a daft question, but is the cylinder undamaged?
As mentioned above, if the barrel is sloppy on firing then the lock up is suspect. When closed, does the barrel point up, are the breech jaws OK with no bulging at the top of the cylinder? Are the breech pivot pin holes still round ... if very worn then the new breech seal may not be good enough. An improvised check on air escape from the breach area on firing is in order. Try the paper trick, or I have known a light sprinkling of talcum powder to do the trick as well.
Regarding the piston ring on the Osprey, I have also heard it is better to oil piston rings (but no experience of the Osprey). I have a Webley Service that, when assembled with modern lubricants, was a little disappointing. I was advised to oil the piston ring (car engine oil, not a lot, just a smear) and the power rose immediately with no dieseling.
Cheers, Phil
Retired Mod & Airgun Anorak Extraordinaire
Hi Phil,
The Vulcan was a ground breaker among British air rifles as it was the first mass production model to reach the 11.5ft.lb+ barrier ... I've a MkI .177 Vulcan from 1979 which stands testimony to this, but the Victor -- albeit a derivative of the Vulcan -- was a junior rifle, and did house a weaker spring (as you correctly point out
As said, my experience of the Victor is a 7ft.lb rifle, but am pleased to learn that some (probably the later ones) could muster 9ft.lb as indeed yours does. Based on this I may get one for my kids to use in a couple of years time (they are currently 5yrs, 3.5yrs and 1yr so no hurry) so cheers for the info. Love this section of this site, as it makes every day a school day where you are actually interested in the lesson topics. Atb: G.
_______________________________________________
Done my bit for the BBS: http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....-being-a-mod-… now I’m a game-keeper turned poacher.
Registered User
Don't use talcum powder for this purpose, talc is basically powdered stone and it will stick to any grease or oil around the gun's breech, unless cleaned off very thoroughly (and I mean dismantling the breech, wiping and degreasing) the talc will form something similar to fine grinding paste and will accelerate wear to the breech and jaws. Stick to Phil's first tip of using small scraps of paper.
Banned
Hi George,
another couple of things to throw in to confuse you even more....if you do use the Talcum powder test...ensure you remove all powder afterwards as when mixed with oil it would make quite a good grinding paste.
Re. the osprey rings...I once knew a guy who had fitted "o" rings & his version had quite a good power level.This did involve some engineering work though,which detracts from originallity,but if you had a spare piston you could allways retro fit it..!
Neither of these airguns were power houses & to try & extract too much from them wouldn't be advisable.Look for power levels around what Gareth suggests & you won't be far out.Cheers.
Banned
Must type faster.......
Spot on Rob.
Registered User
I've found an old advertising leaflet for the Osprey in my Webley odds and ends, and it quotes a velocity of 650 fps and 550 fps for the 0.177 and 0.22 respectively. They don't say which pellets were used, but if they were Webley ones, in 1975 when the gun was introduced they would have weighed approx. 8.2 and 13.5 grains. This works out at 7.7 and 9.0 FP, quite a difference.
Ian
Life is to be enjoyed, not endured.
Banned
Hi Ian,
Webley always did seem to be a little conservative with their velocity figures,but on this occasion I would say they were..."bang on"...no pun intended..!
Mushroom Man
Thanks for the warning about the talc. I have only used it once, out of interest to detect a faulty breech seal (it worked) after being given the tip many years ago ..and that once was prior to a complete strip and rebuild.
I will check my Victor in the next day or two ... I am awaiting some bits to rebuild a BSA Airsporter Stutzen and an Original 35 that my daughter bought. The Stutzen (.22) was delivering about 320fps ... very sad but I note the spring is over an inch shorter than it should be. Our Stutzen seems to have the piston from a Mk5 Airsporter.
But I digress:
I am pretty sure my Victor (approx 1979 / 1980) was about 9ft lbs when new. I did strip and smooth it out though. The current spring is the original one as I have fired it very little since buying the rifle ... will report back on current performance.
Cheers, Phil
Registered User
just put my excel over the chrono doing very well 595 to 600 fps with bis longrange gold 14gr shoots with a dull sort of thud cant say it shoots harsh in any way even at that power for a little rifle very accurate it is to
atb
Last edited by muzzle; 12-11-2008 at 05:33 PM.
Registered User
Thanks for all the tips everyone - good to have an idea of what to aim for in terms of power too...
Indeed, barrel of Victor does move upwards on firing - will need new latch spring methinks and will try paper test too to see if air escaping from breech.
Will investigate problems further, cheers for all the input,
George.
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